TMP Legacy mesh body

[Alyona Su]

15 minutes ago, Velk Kerang said:

So let me ask you this. Food for thought. Using that logic and sticking with it. By that logic if that were applied to an RL situation such as Alpha games on Steam which many have been retweaked and redone to become something entirely new they by rights should be allowed to charge their entire customer base again for the same game purchased? Because when you take that logic and apply it to SL and TMP in this case your basically saying the exact same thing. Is that your entire argument?

I don't use Steam, so your example is lost on me (yes, really: I have no idea how it works, etc.) I base my description on standard software license purchases (not the chash-grab subscription model). So, for example: I purchased Affinity Photo version 1.0 for $XX.XX. I expect to get version 1.1 for free. And version 1.2, 1.3, all the way up to 1.9.9 - for free.

However, when they release version 2.x - I do not expect to get that for free, I expect to be required to pay for it, hopefully with a loyalty discount (a.k.a. Upgrade pricing). As for the TMP Original versus the Legacy mesh bodies, I see that as a version 1 and a version 2 product. By the way they charge for the Legacy, I imagine they see it this way also. I don't know, just deductive reasoning.

Somethings don't matter if they are "free for life" as we so often see in SL, some things do matter. I think it's just that so many merchants promise the "Free upgrades for life" mantra that the shopping SL public is now trained to expect it. Just like how RL fast-food places have been training sheep... er, people to accept them swiping your money then shoo you away to stand around with your thumb up your ... you get the idea.

As for "quality levels" - that is relative. If Item A is a higher quality than item B, then by simple comparison item B is lower quality than item A; one is high quality the other is low quality in comparison. I've always said that Maitreya is a good mesh body. Though one could say Maitreya is "standard quality" and the others "high quality" - or if the others are considered "standard quality" then the Maitreya could be "low quality".

We can always split-hairs on word meanings and how they're used and all the rest. The important thing is that whatever makes you happy is "high-enough quality" - no matter what anyone else thinks. It's the same every time someone asks "which is the best SL Viewer? The truest answer is "Which ever viewer your are most happy using".

[Velk Kerang]

8 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

I don't use Steam, so your example is lost on me (yes, really: I have no idea how it works, etc.) I base my description on standard software license purchases (not the chash-grab subscription model). So, for example: I purchased Affinity Photo version 1.0 for $XX.XX. I expect to get version 1.1 for free. And version 1.2, 1.3, all the way up to 1.9.9 - for free.

However, when they release version 2.x - I do not expect to get that for free, I expect to be required to pay for it, hopefully with a loyalty discount (a.k.a. Upgrade pricing). As for the TMP Original versus the Legacy mesh bodies, I see that as a version 1 and a version 2 product. By the way they charge for the Legacy, I imagine they see it this way also. I don't know, just deductive reasoning.

Somethings don't matter if they are "free for life" as we so often see in SL, some things do matter. I think it's just that so many merchants promise the "Free upgrades for life" mantra that the shopping SL public is now trained to expect it. Just like how RL fast-food places have been training sheep... er, people to accept them swiping your money then shoo you away to stand around with your thumb up your ... you get the idea.

Alpha games on Steam work the same as with any software in Alpha stages. Means they are a very early version of a software product that may not contain all of the features that are contained in the final version. What you described as standard software license purchases sounds more like a version of the chash-grab subscription model you just said it was not. It certainly doesn't sound like any license to any software I have ever purchased. In the case of TMP as stated in their own description that I read when visiting their store the Legacy is an updated version of the original TMP mesh body. Upgrade pricing as you call it is a shady tactic to say the least used by companies with bad business practices. Which is probably why I personally never have had any software agreement even remotely close to what you just described because I tend to stay clear of those. You absolutely should get that upgrade for free because a purchase is made on the software and should not at all be limited to and restricted by version number. I have never not even once ever had to pay for an upgraded version of any software I have ever personally bought and paid for. I ain't about to ever start either. lol  When it comes to products on SL that same rule applies from RL too. I certainly wouldn't repurchase a product I already paid for in order to receive an update. lol Just not ever gonna happen. lol

 

28 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

It's the same every time someone asks "which is the best SL Viewer? The truest answer is "Which ever viewer your are most happy using".

You made a good point on all of the above. We certainly have had different opinions on which SL viewers work best for us so there is a lot to be said for personal preference. lol

[Alyona Su]

27 minutes ago, Velk Kerang said:

Alpha games on Steam work the same as with any software in Alpha stages. Means they are a very early version of a software product that may not contain all of the features that are contained in the final version. What you described as standard software license purchases sounds more like a version of the chash-grab subscription model you just said it was not. It certainly doesn't sound like any license to any software I have ever purchased. In the case of TMP as stated in their own description that I read when visiting their store the Legacy is an updated version of the original TMP mesh body. Upgrade pricing as you call it is a shady tactic to say the least used by companies with bad business practices. Which is probably why I personally never have had any software agreement even remotely close to what you just described because I tend to stay clear of those. You absolutely should get that upgrade for free because a purchase is made on the software and should not at all be limited to and restricted by version number. I have never not even once ever had to pay for an upgraded version of any software I have ever personally bought and paid for. I ain't about to ever start either. lol  When it comes to products on SL that same rule applies from RL too. I certainly wouldn't repurchase a product I already paid for in order to receive an update. lol Just not ever gonna happen. lol

 

You made a good point on all of the above. We certainly have had different opinions on which SL viewers work best for us so there is a lot to be said for personal preference. lol

You've made great points also! I wish other people could be "respectfully disagreeable" - because it's not about :winning", it's about understanding.  I respect your perspectives and I thank you for also respecting mine.

Now we have to go block each other in-world and hate-tag each others' posts from now on. (Laffing-sarcasm /off - for those readers who tend to take everything they read literally) Hahaha!

[MrsSeren]

I was actually enjoying reading you two discuss your different points of view as both of you were so polite to other about each other's view; shame that can't happen more often js!  

Back on topic; I still love and enjoy my Maitreya despite shoulder thing; main reason I'm reluctant go to Legacy is cost as can only afford to buy lindens twice a year as treat as on RL low income and what I make as hostess I generally save and do okay with that I get.

[Alyona Su]

15 hours ago, MrsSeren said:

I was actually enjoying reading you two discuss your different points of view as both of you were so polite to other about each other's view; shame that can't happen more often js!  

Back on topic; I still love and enjoy my Maitreya despite shoulder thing; main reason I'm reluctant go to Legacy is cost as can only afford to buy lindens twice a year as treat as on RL low income and what I make as hostess I generally save and do okay with that I get.

I have Maitreya on both my accounts also and I like it a lot. My personal favorite is still the Belleza, not because of the shoulders, but rather because of the legs (!) - I did get the Legacy on my alt and continue to use it there (because I'm not going to disregard 5K L$ LOL) - is it worth the asking price? Yes, but only 'just'. If I could get a refund I would go back to mt Belleza - again, because of the leg shape I can achieve with it. (I am asian in RL and the fact is asian shapes are very different from caucasian shapes, in the torso, but especially the legs). Though it is a beautiful mesh body. Were I to compare the Belleza to the Legacy... I'd say that for me, the Belleza is still better, shape-wise and HUD wise.

I think it's a shame that they removed the Legacy demo from Marketplace. That's the result of the hate they get from previous customer treatment (because too many hate-reviews: unjustified negative reviews with malicious intent - that's the only possible explanation). Because their in-world store is a horrific experience (for me, anyway.)

[Cinos Field]

As I wait for a layerless and optimized update for this body, I can't help but notice that the demo has been relisted on the marketplace (with no reviews, now) and the body itself has been removed, presumably in order to reset the reviews on that too.

Very shady, to say the least.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Cinos Field

[Alyona Su]

1 hour ago, Cinos Field said:

As I wait for a layerless and optimized update for this body, I can't help but notice that the demo has been relisted on the marketplace (with no reviews, now) and the body itself has been removed, presumably in order to reset the reviews on that too.

Very shady, to say the least.

Then you should flag the demo because it is against MP TOS to list a demo that is not linked to a full version.

[annettehnc]

I love TMP!  Having said that...my stylemode isn't responding.  Is there an update I need, or a link to redownload?

[Panteleeva]

6 hours ago, annettehnc said:

I love TMP!  Having said that...my stylemode isn't responding.  Is there an update I need, or a link to redownload?

You need TP to their store for redelivery

[Claireschen Hesten]

11 hours ago, annettehnc said:

I love TMP!  Having said that...my stylemode isn't responding.  Is there an update I need, or a link to redownload?

It's been flaky as to whether it works or not (could be linked to external server) and if you go to "The Shops" you need media enabled to access the shopping experience and also accept their own region experience. My TMP owning alt couldn't get the re-delivery option to show anything so i'm assuming it only works for the new "Legacy" line of bodies and nothing prior. If you are using TMP on your main account it might be time to get another body

[BEC1111Coverdale Skydancer]

Bought the Legacy body in early November.  Very dissapointed.  I was bored with the almost perfection of the Signature Gianni mesh body. Wanted to try shaping and modding something else. I noticed that Legacy body actually got the arms right on their male mesh body so I was impressed by that.  Even Signature whose Gianni mesh body is nothing short of amazing has the one draw back of unrealistic looking arms.  Men's mesh arms have never really looked natural in sl on any mesh with exception of aesthetic if your into the gorilla sized body builder look.  Legacy is the first to get the male arms really looking good and natural without a steroided bloated look. So yea I pissed away 5 grand on the Legacy body... and since  I know it is not easy for many people in sl to just piss away 5 grand on a mesh body, thats why Im writing this here. Steer clear. As I said the arms look great but this legacy body has many drawbacks of which I will mention a few.  Number 1... NO SUPPORT !!  If you do decide to buy this body male or female, just know support is non existant.  They have a support group that will attack you for asking a question and maybe one of your attackers will tell you to contact the CSR named LiveHelp.  If you contact the CSR by that name, you will never hear from them ever.  You spend 5 grand on a mesh body girl or guy, there should be proper support available always like with Signature, Maitreya and Catwa groups.  NUMBER 2....  NECKLINES !!!  I have tried a few different catwa head skins an body appliers from 3 different skin creators and removing that horrendous and extremely obvious neck line is impossible. I even got some advice off couple of youtube videos for this since Legacy support doesnt exist but still could not solve the neckline issue. Apparently many people have this issue with the Legacy body. Maybe if the Legacy people would have spent less effort on their so called shopping experience bull***** and had put a lot more of their development effort into the HUD for the body....( including a neck fix like Singature and Maitreya) it would have been better.  My post is getting long so I will conclude here, Signature recently offered me another free update to ver 4.9 so I have gone back to Signature Gianni again and life is good!  If your considering buying Legacy, you can get a Maitreya, Signature or many other very good mesh bodies for half the cost of a Legacy. Trust me... its not worth paying 5000 lindens for. Highly recommend steering clear and buying something else.  Cheers  

Edited January 14, 2020 by Blake1111Coverdale

[xBaeBeex]

opposite response here... I've been using the maiterya body since may.. but i always always had my eye on the legacy body ... i should have bought it during the black friday sales, but i was still so undecided that I missed out on getting it for 2500.. sooo i ended paying the full 5K. Its elegant.. its classy.. you dont need to do a whole lot for the body to look great lol... the heels the female body comes with it just amazing.. i haven't bought any heels lately because i love the look of my feet in the ones they provide as an exclusive gift with the body (in different colours too!) 

the issue i had with the maitreya body is when i wear certain clothes/outfits, and then take them off..half my body parts come off with it. and yes..i do have the new version. clothes like scandalize it happens alot.. so im forever pulling my hud back out to "show all" body parts..which is a pain for me. This doesn't happen on the legacy.. nothing disappears when i change clothes around. 

yes the neck line is slightly more noticeable.. but really.. with long hair you can barley tell ..i do wear a small thin choker too sometimes, (not all the time) ..

the hud is a tiny bit slower, but if your sitting around in an online game then i doubt a few seconds will make any difference to your sl experience.. i think people that are saying "the hud is slooowww" .. like come on.. its not "that" bad.. it just doesn't click over as soon a your mouse clicks.. its not that bad that you'll wanna throw your computer to the floor.. -.-

 

*I* do think its worth it..and more and more stores are supplying for the legacy body too which is awesome  

 

 

[Alyona Su]

32 minutes ago, xBaeBeex said:

the hud is a tiny bit slower, but if your sitting around in an online game then i doubt a few seconds will make any difference to your sl experience.. i think people that are saying "the hud is slooowww" .. like come on.. its not "that" bad.. it just doesn't click over as soon a your mouse clicks.. its not that bad that you'll wanna throw your computer to the floor.. -.-

This is the main argument that makes me laugh all the time. My question is "Why do you keep the hud attached, what is it you're doing that causes you to constantly click on it that you feel it's slow?" bSeriously? Sure, the HUD may react a little more slowly. When auto0hide clothing is removed, the refilling of the hidden slices may be a little slow, but in both cases they are amazingly reliable.

As for the body look... I have been on and always returning to my Belleza on both my accounts. Always - because of how good they look. So I spent the full L$5k on Legacy on my alt and now that she's 100% BOM... I been spending a lot more time there. And totally enjoying the legacy body (and the *BEST* Auto-Alpha0creation system than any other body in SL, I think!) - I must admit I'm even thinking of plonking down for another on this account.

As for those who say they purchased then dislike it? Shame on you for not thoroughly investigating the DEMO first. Everyone else is just hating for the sole reason of hating. Sure, perhaps a bad experience in the past with the old guard and old body, but this thread is about the new body and it's a new guard, so such complaints serve no purpose other than to shows someone for their true colors, I suppose.

[Nalates Urriah]

1 hour ago, xBaeBeex said:

[...snip...]

the issue i had with the maitreya body is when i wear certain clothes/outfits, and then take them off..half my body parts come off with it. and yes..i do have the new version. clothes like scandalize it happens alot.. so im forever pulling my hud back out to "show all" body parts..which is a pain for me. This doesn't happen on the legacy.. nothing disappears when i change clothes around. 

[...snip...]

This can happen when a bunch of attachments are stacked on the same attachment point. It gets worse, more likely, when the Internet connection to SL is weak or the region is lagging.

Look In your inventory for Current Outfit. (system folder) Expand it and you can see where everything worn is attached. You will likely find everything attached to the right hand. Move your attachments to other attachment points. It does not matter where rigged mesh is attached. The rigging done by the designer determines where the item appears regardless of attachment point. Spread them around. One or two per attachment point is ideal.

From Current Outfit you can use right-click on an item and select Find Original to easily do the detach and reattach. This has to be done for any copies of the item too. Which is why I set the attachment point immediately after I buy something.

Other prim things that can be edited and  moved when worn are dependent on being on a specific attachment point. Those will likely be on an attachment point other than the system default right-hand and not likely a problem. Those prim things should not be moved.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Nalates Urriah
typos

[steeljane42]

1 hour ago, Alyona Su said:

As for those who say they purchased then dislike it? Shame on you for not thoroughly investigating the DEMO first. Everyone else is just hating for the sole reason of hating.

So dislking a broken product with a broken demo (all those glorious seams at 1k+ altitudes and a few smaller one at ground level as well) is hating? That issue alone makes it probably the worst body on market, it's even more obvious above 3k metres. I thought it was more of "letting people know", about issues as well as about the store's shady practice, not everyone had a chance to demo it properly, because they keep relisting demo on MP (against ToS, which only points towards bad business), since the "experience" in-world store makes it close to impossible to check for that stuff.

It's been ~9 months since it was released and it's still not fixed. I wouldn't be surprised if it stays the way it is forever, just like old TMP body never got fixed after 5 years. Sure, some other bodies and other things had/have their own share of issues here and there, but it's a critical issue, since only reason to even have a mesh body is to look better and those seams make it look terrible.

[Alyona Su]

1 hour ago, steeljane42 said:

So dislking a broken product with a broken demo (all those glorious seams at 1k+ altitudes and a few smaller one at ground level as well) is hating? That issue alone makes it probably the worst body on market, it's even more obvious above 3k metres. I thought it was more of "letting people know", about issues as well as about the store's shady practice, not everyone had a chance to demo it properly, because they keep relisting demo on MP (against ToS, which only points towards bad business), since the "experience" in-world store makes it close to impossible to check for that stuff.

It's been ~9 months since it was released and it's still not fixed. I wouldn't be surprised if it stays the way it is forever, just like old TMP body never got fixed after 5 years. Sure, some other bodies and other things had/have their own share of issues here and there, but it's a critical issue, since only reason to even have a mesh body is to look better and those seams make it look terrible.

If you didn't buy it then your arguments are moot. If your comments are on the demo then state that they are on the demo. Otherwise haters will hate. ~snorts~

[steeljane42]

11 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

If you didn't buy it then your arguments are moot. If your comments are on the demo then state that they are on the demo. Otherwise haters will hate. ~snorts~

You contradict yourself already, for the sake of arguing. First you say shame on people who bought it without checking demo carefully and now apparently you say that demo is just a demo and if someone didn't bought a full product (but shame on them for not checking a demo anyway) are haters, it must be only owners of "full product" that have right to dislike it.

0/10. But it's okay, I get it, buyer's remorse can be strong.

[Alyona Su]

18 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

You contradict yourself already, for the sake of arguing. First you say shame on people who bought it without checking demo carefully and now apparently you say that demo is just a demo and if someone didn't bought a full product (but shame on them for not checking a demo anyway) are haters, it must be only owners of "full product" that have right to dislike it.

0/10. But it's okay, I get it, buyer's remorse can be strong.

Wow. Sue your school.

Let me simplify the context of everything I've said here: If you comment on something you did not buy, then your argument is a moot one because what you are saying is conjecture or hearsay; rumor. If your comment is on something you did buy, and you are claiming it is "broken" then you should have seen it was broken in the demo, yet you purchased it anyway. Though such comment is still valid (even if you do not understand the concept of paragraph breaks, etc.).

If you make a comment on something you did not purchase, but rather your comments are based on a demo that you tried out, then you should state that your comments are based on a demo that you tried out. Leaving this bit of factual information out is a deceit-by-ommision because it will be presumed you did purchase the product, when in fact you did not (and demo units are inherently limited in comparison to the retail version.

Full disclosure is just one of those annoying things people tend to never want to give. It's okay. We're all used to it. A.k.a. only one side of every story.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Alyona Su

[Cinos Field]

So in other words, the only possible course of action is buying the thing and loving it, otherwise the consumer is at fault one way or another?

[Marianne Little]

I thought the demo is the same as the body, just no modify and with demo signs. So discussing the demo = discussing the body? It is not as issues disappear when one buys the full priced body.

[steeljane42]

2 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

If you make a comment on something you did not purchase, but rather your comments are based on a demo that you tried out, then you should state that your comments are based on a demo that you tried out

Because no one ever seen full product in-world either, right? I mean it's not the most common body, but you can see it around here and there. And yep, it's as broken as the demo is, in the exact same places. You don't have to buy a faulty product to know it's faulty, be it SL or RL, if you do your research. It's the best to learn on mistakes, especially if it's mistakes of others. But hey, white knights gonna whiteknight, it's always the same and should someone say something bad - it's the haters, always. Have fun with your broken body, I'll use something that is not as bad looking for the time being and will give their demo another try if they ever fix it.

[Vanity Fair]

On 1/14/2020 at 12:34 PM, Blake1111Coverdale said:

NUMBER 2....  NECKLINES !!!  I have tried a few different catwa head skins an body appliers from 3 different skin creators and removing that horrendous and extremely obvious neck line is impossible. I even got some advice off couple of youtube videos for this since Legacy support doesnt exist but still could not solve the neckline issue. Apparently many people have this issue with the Legacy body. Maybe if the Legacy people would have spent less effort on their so called shopping experience bull***** and had put a lot more of their development effort into the HUD for the body....( including a neck fix like Singature and Maitreya) it would have been better.  

Sadly, I can confirm the neckline issue with the Legacy male mesh body (I had an alt win one in their recent contest).

Here is my full review (Strawberry Linden also recently linked to it from the SL Bloggers Network Community Feed): https://ryanschultz.com/2020/01/11/review-the-legacy-male-mesh-avatar-body-by-the-ultimate-meshbody/

It's a gorgeous body, but until they find a better solution for the inevitable neckseam problem you will have, I don't recommend it. Also, at L$5,500 it is significantly more expensive than the Belleza Jake and Signature Gianni/Geralt male mesh bodies, and the Legacy does NOT have Omega support. Also, although the situation seems to be improving over time, there are still fewer designers creating clothing for the Legacy mesh bodies than for Jake/Gianni/Geralt out there. 

However, I can tell you that the in-store demo version of the male mesh Legacy body does give you a good indication of what the purchased version looks like.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Vanity Fair

[Claireschen Hesten]

6 hours ago, xBaeBeex said:

the issue i had with the maitreya body is when i wear certain clothes/outfits, and then take them off..half my body parts come off with it. and yes..i do have the new version. clothes like scandalize it happens alot.. so im forever pulling my hud back out to "show all" body parts..which is a pain for me. This doesn't happen on the legacy.. nothing disappears when i change clothes around. 

That happens when the clothes you buy are using an older version of auto alpha that doesn't undo the alpha-ing when you take them off

[Kristie Lemon]

I thought about changing to the Legacy body today when I noticed an issue I didn't think would recur.

Right now, I use a Slink HG body, Lelutka Greer head, with League Alessa skins on the head and League Isla pale skins on my BoM body.  There is absolutely no neck seam.  This has been true since I switched to League and Lelutka in 2018.

Using the exact same skin (which is NOT made specifically for a Slink body), I get a neck seam when using the BoM Legacy body.  It's very subtle, but too much for me.

Is this a problem with Legacy?  Despite the superior shape of Legacy and the increasing clothing support, I think this will make the body a no-go for me.  I can't stand that seam.

[Alyona Su]

13 hours ago, Kristie Lemon said:

I thought about changing to the Legacy body today when I noticed an issue I didn't think would recur.

Right now, I use a Slink HG body, Lelutka Greer head, with League Alessa skins on the head and League Isla pale skins on my BoM body.  There is absolutely no neck seam.  This has been true since I switched to League and Lelutka in 2018.

Using the exact same skin (which is NOT made specifically for a Slink body), I get a neck seam when using the BoM Legacy body.  It's very subtle, but too much for me.

Is this a problem with Legacy?  Despite the superior shape of Legacy and the increasing clothing support, I think this will make the body a no-go for me.  I can't stand that seam.

I am using Legacy in BOM mode and Genus head in BOM mode and get zero neck seam. The caveat in all of this, which is true for most onion-skinned bodies and heads "converted" to BOM, is the materials and other settings; shine or sheen or whatever.

I'm sure you already know all this, so I will describe for others: The issue also is that head and body are made by different creators. The point being that for BOM, removing the neck seam entirely requires removing every possible setting that changes the tone of the head and body both; turn off all materials settings. BOM can have its own materials and using tattoos, etc, can also mimic materials. For BOM, the mesh head and body need to be as transparent as possible.

There always will be a neck seam, it cannot be removed entirely, but if you can get it that it's entirely invisible in calWL unless you alt-cam to within clipping distance (the point where the camera goes into the mesh) and know where to look - it will be there, but only you can see it because you know where to look for it.