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What are some of your pet peeves?

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7 hours ago, halebore Aeon said:

Bloggers who don't post everything.

THIS. I always try to post links to everything I wear in a photo on my wordpress blog, because I know *I* like to be able to click on links to things I fancy. 🙂 

 

~Vael

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A pet hate of mine: when people cannot see how rose-tinted their glasses are, and so invent a laundry-list of imagined structural failings to compensate for their own growing complacency. We've all seen these kind of complaints. "Mesh is style over substance." "People aren't as social as they used to be." "RP is dead." "SL is empty." "Creativity is dead." No. No it's not. Go look in a mirror if you want to see the problem. You can either take responsibility for your actions and accept that your lack of engagement is the cause of this supposed decay, or you can wallow in toxic nostalgia alone in the corner. Your choice.

I mean I get it, it's tough. Falling into complacency is a pretty easy trap to fall into. It's hard to continually push to find new places, meet new people, join new communities or experience new artwork. But my sympathy ends the minute that complacency creates toxicity, the minute you start blaming everyone but yourself for your own problems.

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35 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

A pet hate of mine: when people cannot see how rose-tinted their glasses are, and so invent a laundry-list of imagined structural failings to compensate for their own growing complacency. We've all seen these kind of complaints. "Mesh is style over substance." "People aren't as social as they used to be." "RP is dead." "SL is empty." "Creativity is dead." No. No it's not. Go look in a mirror if you want to see the problem. You can either take responsibility for your actions and accept that your lack of engagement is the cause of this supposed decay, or you can wallow in toxic nostalgia alone in the corner. Your choice.

I mean I get it, it's tough. Falling into complacency is a pretty easy trap to fall into. It's hard to continually push to find new places, meet new people, join new communities or experience new artwork. But my sympathy ends the minute that complacency creates toxicity, the minute you start blaming everyone but yourself for your own problems.

I'm assuming this is in response to a couple of posts I made elsewhere, given it's almost quoting directly from them (and it's misquotation taken out of context if so). If not, it's still relevant so I'll bite.

I really don't consider SL's culture change,  as it appears to me, to be one of "my own problems". It's really not that personal to me. Nor do I require "sympathy" (you what?). I wouldn't even say it's "tough", or "hard". Creating a beautiful av is harder now, though, so yes, I do stand by that. Complacency and lack of engagement, well, I have RL responsibilities that take priority and affect my available time to be inworld. I know that'll affect my experience, but it's not a personal failing. That's actually rather insulting. And I may be a bit disappointed that SL, for whatever reason, no longer seems as magical to me as it once did, but I don't consider that an actual hardship. Really, I don't. 

Things change over time, both people and places. To be perfectly honest, it never occurred to me that anyone would be this offended by that observation. 

 

Edited by Amina Sopwith
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27 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I'm assuming this is in response to a couple of posts I made elsewhere, given it's almost quoting directly from them (and it's misquotation taken out of context if so). If not, it's still relevant so I'll bite.

I really don't consider SL's culture change,  as it appears to me, to be one of "my own problems". It's really not that personal to me. Nor do I require "sympathy" (you what?). I wouldn't even say it's "tough", or "hard". Creating a beautiful av is harder now, though, so yes, I do stand by that. Complacency and lack of engagement, well, I have RL responsibilities that take priority and affect my available time to be inworld. I know that'll affect my experience, but it's not a personal failing. That's actually rather insulting. And I may be a bit disappointed that SL, for whatever reason, no longer seems as magical to me as it once did, but I don't consider that an actual hardship. Really, I don't. 

Things change over time, both people and places. To be perfectly honest, it never occurred to me that anyone would be this offended by that observation. 

It wasn't in response to you. It might seem like it, but only because you may have used the same language that started any one of several threadnaughts on this topic that have appeared over the last few months.

I never implied that complacency or a lack of engagement was a personal failing; I outright stated that failing to realise this, and instead inventing a "cultural decay of second life" as the cause of whatever perceived decline one might be facing, is a toxic outlook that should not be encouraged. And I stand by that.

For example, I did a cleanup of dead landmarks from my landmarks folder last weekend, and now my photo spot folder is the smallest it's been in well over a year. That's my fault, I've stopped exploring and hunting new locations, and so not kept up with natural churn... because I'm back in full time work, and don't have the time to spend several hours weekly looking for new spots. What I haven't done is started a thread here about "the decline of the photographic world in SL".

Nothing can match or replace that feeling of wide-eyed wonder you get when exploring something new for the first time. That magic dust might stick around for days, weeks, even months, but eventually it will fade and nothing can bring back that feeling. And that sucks, for sure.

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Shops that hide their entrances, then have teleport rerouting turned on, and flight turned off so you have to turn into some sort of limber-fingered long distance cammer, or cat burglar to find out what they have for sale.

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2 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

A pet hate of mine: when people cannot see how rose-tinted their glasses are, and so invent a laundry-list of imagined structural failings to compensate for their own growing complacency. We've all seen these kind of complaints. "Mesh is style over substance." "People aren't as social as they used to be." "RP is dead." "SL is empty." "Creativity is dead." No. No it's not. Go look in a mirror if you want to see the problem. You can either take responsibility for your actions and accept that your lack of engagement is the cause of this supposed decay, or you can wallow in toxic nostalgia alone in the corner. Your choice.

I mean I get it, it's tough. Falling into complacency is a pretty easy trap to fall into. It's hard to continually push to find new places, meet new people, join new communities or experience new artwork. But my sympathy ends the minute that complacency creates toxicity, the minute you start blaming everyone but yourself for your own problems.

I absolutely despise people who say there is nothing to do in SL, yet stand around and do nothing and not even try to get out there and find something they may like. Don't blame the grid, blame yourself, for not even trying.

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4 minutes ago, Raspberry Crystal said:

Shops that hide their entrances, then have teleport rerouting turned on, and flight turned off so you have to turn into some sort of limber-fingered long distance cammer, or cat burglar to find out what they have for sale.

Or teleport rerouting in general, to be honest. I'm yet to find a sim that actually benefits from using it, rather than being a massive pain in the backside to all involved.

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7 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

I absolutely despise people who say there is nothing to do in SL, yet stand around and do nothing and not even try to get out there and find something they may like. Don't blame the grid, blame yourself, for not even trying.

I think it's usually the case that people used to actively look for things to do, places to visit and people to meet. Over time people will lose that drive to go experience new things... I know I have, for sure. What's important is being mindful of why there might be "nothing to do", and not assigning blame to the wrong place.

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1 minute ago, AyelaNewLife said:

I think it's usually the case that people used to actively look for things to do, places to visit and people to meet. Over time people will lose that drive to go experience new things... I know I have, for sure. What's important is being mindful of why there might be "nothing to do", and not assigning blame to the wrong place.

People will always assign blame to things other then themselves. Yeah I stand around and do nothing, but I know why I'm bored. Because it's my fault. It ain't SL, it's me.

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This is a really recent one, and I notice one company does it. So there is this outfit for males at an event, won't name the outfit or event. Yet they get to buy the fatpack or individuals. The guy says he is releasing a female version. What does he do? He makes it a gacha. If you are gonna allow the males to buy the whole item as a fatpack. Why do females not get the same treatment? I kinda find it unfair to be honest. There may be other companies in SL that does that, and I think that is absolutely wrong. Does anyone else see an issue with this, or is it just me?

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48 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

Does anyone else see an issue with this, or is it just me?

I see no issue at all; I see a creator that will lose a lot of sales and go onto many black-lists like my own, but otherwise, no issue at all.

I see outfits I'd throw money at all the time, and I mean large sums (I usually go for fat-packs, myself) - but for one reason or another I never do. Especially if it's a gacha and those are being abused more and more as time goes on.

A gacha full of shoes (or other single item of any type,) with each being a different color or textures, but the same style: fine. But an ensemble outfit in a single gacha machine? That strikes me as a game of chance of the most high and should definitely be against ToS, but I don't bother AR'ing it. I figure if there are people stupid enough (specifically-chosen words there) to buy from it then whatever.

Edited by Alyona Su
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5 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

I never implied that complacency or a lack of engagement was a personal failing

 

7 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

A pet hate of mine: when people cannot see how rose-tinted their glasses are, and so invent a laundry-list of imagined structural failings to compensate for their own growing complacency...Go look in a mirror if you want to see the problem. You can either take responsibility for your actions and accept that your lack of engagement is the cause of this supposed decay, or you can wallow in toxic nostalgia alone in the corner. Your choice.

I mean I get it, it's tough. Falling into complacency is a pretty easy trap to fall into. 

The implication is strong in this one. It's certainly not a neutral observation, and even calling it "complacency" shows how you perceive this feeling. You're free to make this judgement but it's nice to own it.

With that said. Speaking for myself, as I stressed in the other thread, I do find the culture of SL has changed overall to one that's more concerned with appearances. I've meshed up, created and costumed new RP characters and taken them round several sims, attempted a road trip, chatted to people where I find them, joined the forums for the first time (you lucky people, you), looked at SL social media accounts, donated Ls to places I thought were nice, and it's the impression I'm consistently getting. SL looks wonderful but yes, I do think less is going on and that, as a whole, there is a stronger focus and more judgment on appearances than there used to be. Which I think is interesting, given that it's actually harder to look good now than it used to be. I notice there appears to be a huge rise in SL photography,  but also friction within that community as some people feel it's against the spirit to use so much post production that you get images that aren't actually possible to get within SL. Again, a focus on style. Not new, of course, but more prominent than before.

5 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

 you may have used the same language that started any one of several threadnaughts on this topic that have appeared over the last few months.

If lots of people are saying it, is there any possibility that they might have a point? I found the ones about the restrictions/nature of mesh to be very interesting because I'm not a builder and have very little technical knowledge, but they explained in more detail why I've heard similar sentiments from people who are much more technical than I am.

5 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Nothing can match or replace that feeling of wide-eyed wonder you get when exploring something new for the first time. 

That's obvious and I don't think people are confusing a culture change for this. 

Edited by Amina Sopwith
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36 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

 

The implication is strong in this one. It's certainly not a neutral observation, and even calling it "complacency" shows how you perceive this feeling. You're free to make this judgement but it's nice to own it.

With that said. Speaking for myself, as I stressed in the other thread, I do find the culture of SL has changed overall to one that's more concerned with appearances. I've meshed up, created and costumed new RP characters and taken them round several sims, attempted a road trip, chatted to people where I find them, joined the forums for the first time (you lucky people, you), looked at SL social media accounts, donated Ls to places I thought were nice, and it's the impression I'm consistently getting. SL looks wonderful but yes, I do think less is going on and that, as a whole, there is a stronger focus and more judgment on appearances than there used to be. Which I think is interesting, given that it's actually harder to look good now than it used to be. I notice there appears to be a huge rise in SL photography,  but also friction within that community as some people feel it's against the spirit to use so much post production that you get images that aren't actually possible to get within SL. Again, a focus on style. Not new, of course, but more prominent than before.

If lots of people are saying it, is there any possibility that they might have a point? I found the ones about the restrictions/nature of mesh to be very interesting because I'm not a builder and have very little technical knowledge, but they explained in more detail why I've heard similar sentiments from people who are much more technical than I am.

That's obvious and I don't think people are confusing a culture change for this. 

So basically it is LL's responsibility and everyone on social media's responsibility to find something for you to do. There are tonnes of things in SL to do, YOU just gotta take the time and find it.

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6 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

I never implied that complacency or a lack of engagement was a personal failing; I outright stated that failing to realise this, and instead inventing a "cultural decay of second life" as the cause of whatever perceived decline one might be facing, is a toxic outlook that should not be encouraged. And I stand by that.

I'm a little unclear exactly what you're arguing for here, Ayela.

It is surely not that SL has not changed, pretty fundamentally in many regards, over the past half dozen years or so? "Decay" is a pretty loaded worded: there are unquestionably people who think that it has "decayed." but I myself think there have been gains and losses.

And the degree to which one perceives that "decay" or, as I'd prefer to think of it, "change," is going to depend an awful lot on what one's preferred way of using SL has been. If you have never been a creator who enjoyed building things in-world, or if you've always been someone who preferred the quiet intimacy of IMs over the noisy, communal chitchat of local, you're less likely to have noticed many of these changes. If you're more interested in "looking good" than in connecting in particular ways that are no longer as prevalent as they once were, then you probably think that SL is better now than it was. And that's cool.

But to those for whom these (and other features and cultural expressions that are now on the wane) are central to their experience and enjoyment of SL, then it's going to look a lot like "decay" after all. And posts by such people, especially if they haven't found other things to do in SL that adequately replace these, are likely to take on an elegiac tone. That is surely understandable? Is it really valid to blame them for missing something they valued?

I've been fortunate, I think: I've found activities -- notably but not exclusively photography -- that I enjoy enough that they compensate for the things I used to do in-world that are no longer really viable. But to suggest that everyone should find something to replace what they feel they've lost is surely unrealistic. Were SL to become a place where "games" were the main activity, or where playing Barbie with one's avatar was the primary outlet for creative expression . . . well, I'd leave. I'll happily acknowledge that these are valid ways to use SL, and I'm certainly not going to criticize those who enjoy them, but neither of those things interests me particularly, and they certainly wouldn't replace other things that might have been lost as a result of their ascendancy.

So, why "toxic," a term that implies that mourning something lost is not merely dreary, whiny, or wearisome, but actually destructive? I'm going to agree that complaining about the fact that there are fewer people talking in local, or that creativity (including photography, which is mostly expressed on Flickr) happens off-grid now is probably fairly pointless. But it's a leap from that conviction to one that those who feel the losses more than the gains are "toxic." How are people who feel somewhat alienated from the platform because it has changed in ways that diminish their pleasure in it, "hurting" SL, or you?

Understanding what has been lost, as well as acknowledging the things we have gained, are not in themselves pointless exercises: I think it is useful to understand why people might be leaving SL, as well as recognizing how advances in the platform -- most notably, mesh -- might attract new users. But just generally, having a more comprehensive understanding of how change is impacting on our very diverse virtual lives here seems to me useful.

And it seems to me, in that regard, counterproductive and maybe a bit ungenerous to label those who, for whatever reason, no longer find SL as interesting as it once was as "toxic."

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
Extra unwanted unloved word excised. I'm sorry word, but you had to go.
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1 minute ago, halebore Aeon said:

So basically it is LL's responsibility and everyone on social media's responsibility to find something for you to do. There are tonnes of things in SL to do, YOU just gotta take the time and find it.

This is such an odd attitude.

Amina has said nothing of the sort. What she has said is that elements of SL that have become more important are not as interesting to her as some of the things that she used to enjoy here, and that are increasingly less in evidence. She herself has noted that she has found things -- notably, posting in the forums for instance -- to at least partially fulfill her own interests. Telling her that it's her fault somehow that SL has changed in ways that have diminished her interest is just unfair.

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2 hours ago, halebore Aeon said:

So basically it is LL's responsibility and everyone on social media's responsibility to find something for you to do. There are tonnes of things in SL to do, YOU just gotta take the time and find it.

Is that what you took from my post? Ok, I'll try again.

SL is 16 years old (I think) and appears to have changed culturally in that time (shocking, I know). Mesh is beautiful but with it appears to have come a culture which seems, to me and others, to be more preoccupied with appearances and more judgemental on that count, and somewhat to the detriment of other things. I feel able to make this observation because I've spent as much time as I can (limited, I accept) doing my best to explore, interact and talk to people. 

My own pet peeve: people making up stuff I haven't said and appearing to be very angry about it. 

Edited by Amina Sopwith
Other things, not otter things. But I love otters so maybe I'll start looking for sea life places next time I'm in.
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If you can't comprehend the viewpoint of another just assume the other must be pathological.    😍

Edited by Luna Bliss

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I'm actually a bit (ok, very) surprised at how strong people's reactions are to this. A couple of semi character assassinations and a statement including the phrase "absolutely despise". Really? 

8 hours ago, halebore Aeon said:

I absolutely despise people who say there is nothing to do in SL, yet stand around and do nothing and not even try to get out there and find something they may like. Don't blame the grid, blame yourself, for not even trying.

I've met a fair variety of idiots but I've honestly never met anyone who stood still in SL, made literally no effort to discover anything, and yet complained it had nothing to offer. Really. Not even Goreans. 

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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm a little unclear exactly what you're arguing for here, Ayela.

It is surely not that SL has not changed, pretty fundamentally in many regards, over the past half dozen years or so? "Decay" is a pretty loaded worded: there are unquestionably people who think that it has "decayed." but I myself think there have been gains and losses.

And the degree to which one perceives that "decay" or, as I'd prefer to think of it, "change," is going to depend an awful lot on what one's preferred way of using SL has been. If you have never been a creator who enjoyed building things in-world, or if you've always been someone who preferred the quiet intimacy of IMs over the noisy, communal chitchat of local, you're less likely to have noticed many of these changes. If you're more interested in "looking good" than in connecting in particular ways that are no longer as prevalent as they once were, then you probably think that SL is better now than it was. And that's cool.

But to those for whom these (and other features and cultural expressions that are now on the wane) are central to their experience and enjoyment of SL, then it's going to look a lot like "decay" after all. And posts by such people, especially if they haven't found other things to do in SL that adequately replace these, are likely to take on an elegiac tone. That is surely understandable? Is it really valid to blame them for missing something they valued?

I've been fortunate, I think: I've found activities -- notably but not exclusively photography -- that I enjoy enough that they compensate for the things I used to do in-world that are no longer really viable. But to suggest that everyone should find something to replace what they feel they've lost is surely unrealistic. Were SL to become a place where "games" were the main activity, or where playing Barbie with one's avatar was the primary outlet for creative expression . . . well, I'd leave. I'll happily acknowledge that these are valid ways to use SL, and I'm certainly not going to criticize those who enjoy them, but neither of those things interests me particularly, and they certainly wouldn't replace other things that might have been lost as a result of their ascendancy.

So, why "toxic," a term that implies that mourning something lost is not merely dreary, whiny, or wearisome, but actually destructive? I'm going to agree that complaining about the fact that there are fewer people talking in local, or that creativity (including photography, which is mostly expressed on Flickr) happens off-grid now is probably fairly pointless. But it's a leap from that conviction to one that those who feel the losses more than the gains are "toxic." How are people who feel somewhat alienated from the platform because it has changed in ways that diminish their pleasure in it, "hurting" SL, or you?

Understanding what has been lost, as well as acknowledging the things we have gained, are not in themselves pointless exercises: I think it is useful to understand why people might be leaving SL, as well as recognizing how advances in the platform -- most notably, mesh -- might attract new users. But just generally, having a more comprehensive understanding of how change is impacting on our very diverse virtual lives here seems to me useful.

And it seems to me, in that regard, counterproductive and maybe a bit ungenerous to label those who, for whatever reason, no longer find SL as interesting as it once was as "toxic."

I started my point by specifically mentioning "rose-tinted glasses", and everything I said since is framed by that. I'm talking about those lost in false-nostalgia, by those that remember the past as better than it actually was. While it would be nonsense to suggest that SL hasn't changed at all over the last however many years, it would be equally nonsensical to blindly accept every perceived change as actually matching reality. A perceived change can be just as much due to a change in the observer as a change in the system they're observing - and I am (I'd hoped clearly) talking about the cases where the person changes yet they blame imagined changes in SL itself.

Much of SL is like swimming against a gentle current - doing nothing is not the same as staying in the same place. If you don't continually swim against that current, you go backwards. Friends quit SL, others remove you from their friends list, sims close, others are all but abandoned, groups and communities fade. But it's just churn; new people are joining every day, new sims are opening, new communities blossoming. If you're not actively seeking out new experiences to replace those that inevitably come to an end, you might perceive SL to be decaying... but it's not, not really. It's just your own lack of engagement and complacency that's painting a false picture of things.

The other half of the rose-tinted contact lens brigade are the SL equivalent of the nutters that genuinely believe life was better in the 60s (objectively false, by every metric). It's just associative memory; "I had fun when I started (because I was new and actively exploring and meeting new people), but I'm having less fun now (because I'm set in a routine, mostly at home, and the shine has worn off), therefore SL has changed for the worse". You can swap in any feature you like instead of the time frame; mesh tends to be the big target for this. It's the usual correlation =/= causation fallacy that pre-teens get taught to avoid over here.

Of course, for both those examples (decline of userbase and grr mesh) there are plenty of genuine complaints surrounding those topics. But that's why I framed it with the "rose-tinted glasses" comment - it's not false nostalgia to comment on (for example) how the graphical demands of modern SL has outpaced what your average household pc can handle. That's just reality. 

And as for the toxic label - I stand by that, in the specific context of those two posts. If you have a specific problem with my use of that word, in the specific context of those two posts I'd be more than happy to address it. 

So yeah - please don't miss out chunks of my posts when replying, it makes me sad :(

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6 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Much of SL is like swimming against a gentle current - doing nothing is not the same as staying in the same place. If you don't continually swim against that current, you go backwards. Friends quit SL, others remove you from their friends list, sims close, others are all but abandoned, groups and communities fade. But it's just churn; new people are joining every day, new sims are opening, new communities blossoming. If you're not actively seeking out new experiences to replace those that inevitably come to an end, you might perceive SL to be decaying... but it's not, not really. It's just your own lack of engagement and complacency that's painting a false picture of things.

This is a very cogent point, and it's true whether you are talking about SL or RL.  As I get older, I watch an increasing number of people in my own cohort who get tired of swimming upstream or -- probably more honestly -- don't see as much upstream worth swimming toward, so they decide to tread water instead.  Heck, I do that myself.  I cannot relate to rap music, Snapchat, and a lot of other things.  I'm not quite to the "Get off my lawn!" stage, but some days I am tempted.  When you succumb to the temptation, your frame of reference shifts.  You're more inclined to blame the world for changing and less inclined to acknowledge that some of the change (or failure to change) is your own.  Reality is a bear, hard to describe accurately and always a shifting target.

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11 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

I started my point by specifically mentioning "rose-tinted glasses", and everything I said since is framed by that. I'm talking about those lost in false-nostalgia, by those that remember the past as better than it actually was. While it would be nonsense to suggest that SL hasn't changed at all over the last however many years, it would be equally nonsensical to blindly accept every perceived change as actually matching reality. A perceived change can be just as much due to a change in the observer as a change in the system they're observing - and I am (I'd hoped clearly) talking about the cases where the person changes yet they blame imagined changes in SL itself.

Much of SL is like swimming against a gentle current - doing nothing is not the same as staying in the same place. If you don't continually swim against that current, you go backwards. Friends quit SL, others remove you from their friends list, sims close, others are all but abandoned, groups and communities fade. But it's just churn; new people are joining every day, new sims are opening, new communities blossoming. If you're not actively seeking out new experiences to replace those that inevitably come to an end, you might perceive SL to be decaying... but it's not, not really. It's just your own lack of engagement and complacency that's painting a false picture of things.

The other half of the rose-tinted contact lens brigade are the SL equivalent of the nutters that genuinely believe life was better in the 60s (objectively false, by every metric). It's just associative memory; "I had fun when I started (because I was new and actively exploring and meeting new people), but I'm having less fun now (because I'm set in a routine, mostly at home, and the shine has worn off), therefore SL has changed for the worse". You can swap in any feature you like instead of the time frame; mesh tends to be the big target for this. It's the usual correlation =/= causation fallacy that pre-teens get taught to avoid over here.

Of course, for both those examples (decline of userbase and grr mesh) there are plenty of genuine complaints surrounding those topics. But that's why I framed it with the "rose-tinted glasses" comment - it's not false nostalgia to comment on (for example) how the graphical demands of modern SL has outpaced what your average household pc can handle. That's just reality. 

And as for the toxic label - I stand by that, in the specific context of those two posts. If you have a specific problem with my use of that word, in the specific context of those two posts I'd be more than happy to address it. 

So yeah - please don't miss out chunks of my posts when replying, it makes me sad :(

Sorry, but this is reading a bit "no true Scotsman" for me. Is it possible to make an observation about a less than positive change in SL without it being construed as "rose tinted"? I'm obviously aware that I've changed too, would be weird if I hadn't after so many years. I made that point explicitly in the posts you say you're not referencing. Given that we all accept that a place and its inhabitants will change in the best part of two decades, how exactly are you differentiating between those who are making a fair observation that a lot of us seem to share, and those who are in false nostalgia and therefore the presumed target of that rather comprehensive character assassination? The "lack of engagement" and "complacency" and "toxicity" that you're still talking about? 

 

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6 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Sorry, but this is reading a bit "no true Scotsman" for me. Is it possible to make an observation about a less than positive change in SL without it being construed as "rose tinted"? 

Of course! But wouldn't you agree that, as well as those that observe an actual change, there are those who are just making excuses for their own dissatisfaction, as well as many who fit in the grey area between those two clear-cut cases? And if so, given that this is a pet peeves thread, wouldn't it be likely that I'm talking about the obvious cases, rather than 'auditing' the entire population?

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6 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Given that we all accept that a place and its inhabitants will change in the best part of two decades, how exactly are you differentiating between those who are making a fair observation that a lot of us seem to share, and those who are in false nostalgia and therefore the presumed target of that rather comprehensive character assassination? The "lack of engagement" and "complacency" and "toxicity" that you're still talking about? 

I'm not sure that I see any claim here that everyone falls in either the "fair observation" camp or the "rose-colored glasses" one, or that there's a sharp line between the two. I've really just been lurking in this part off the thread, but to me it looks like there are decent points here in all of these posts.  Certainly there are real changes -- not all for the better -- and certainly we have all changed too -- not all for the better.  Sorting out what's "real" in all of this is very difficult and very personal.  I wouldn't want to claim that my own perceptions are perfect, or even that a group of my friends in world have a privileged view of The Truth.

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5 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Of course! But wouldn't you agree that, as well as those that observe an actual change, there are those who are just making excuses for their own dissatisfaction, as well as many who fit in the grey area between those two clear-cut cases? And if so, given that this is a pet peeves thread, wouldn't it be likely that I'm talking about the obvious cases, rather than 'auditing' the entire population?

Let's just get to the point lest I get too bored here....do you believe Amina is wearing rose-colored glasses regarding this issue?

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Let's just get to the point lest I get too bored here....do you believe Amina is wearing rose-colored glasses regarding this issue?

Figuratively, right? 

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