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What are some of your pet peeves?

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I think 250-450 is fair for a shape and here’s why: 

1) you aren’t going to sell as many shapes as you would a mesh object in general. So yeah, getting a 250 bump a couple times a week isn’t exactly going to pay your rent next month in real life. If anything, it’s going to be enough to buy something with.

Yes, I know there are shape making stores...but there’s no Blueberry of shapemaking. It’s a small time business that is still doable in SL.
 

2) if the market bears that price, then there’s nothing wrong with the price. Personally, if I took time to make a shape, do an ad, package  it up. Someone telling me my time is worth 25L would be an insult.

 

3) it’s a major part of an avatar. Changing shape can give you a completely different appearance. 250 is too much?

Edited by janetosilio
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1 minute ago, janetosilio said:

I think 250-450 is fair for a shape and here’s why: 

1) you aren’t going to sell as many shapes as you would a mesh object in general. So yeah, getting a 250 bump a couple times a week isn’t exactly going to pay your rent next month in real life. If anything, it’s going to be enough to buy something with.

Yes, I know there are shape making stores...but there’s no Blueberry of shapemaking. It’s a small time business that is still doable in SL.
 

2) if the market bears that price, then there’s nothing wrong with the price. Personally, if I took time to make a shape, do an ad, package  it up. Someone telling me my time is worth 25L would be an insult.

I just don't see a sculptor of something that is already in SL. I look at you as a sculptor, you sculpt the shape but using what you have in SL to make the shape. I don't see a shape creator and equate it to someone who makes mesh. 

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This is why I have repeated myself on multiple occasions. I made my own shape, cause I don't agree with paying that price. I took the time to learn how to make a shape. As I got sick and tired of asking friends or having to pay the same price for a shape that costs the same as a mesh object.

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1 minute ago, halebore Aeon said:

I just don't see a sculptor of something that is already in SL. I look at you as a sculptor, you sculpt the shape but using what you have in SL to make the shape. I don't see a shape creator and equate it to someone who makes mesh. 

Yeah, but you’re assigning worth to something in a way that is a little arbitrary. From the amount of shapes on the market, there’s a market. SL is a free market economy, not a “cause I say so economy”. If people didn’t think those “high” prices for shapes were unreasonable....then they wouldn’t pay for them. Then the prices would lower.
 

You’re also assigning value to 2 different things in a way that’s unfair. It’s been pointed out that shape makers do put time into making a product, just like mesh maker does.

If you want to turn it around. You could argue...if you know what you’re doing in a 3D modeling program you can put together a sellable project in a shorter amount of time than it takes to make and sell a shape.

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1 hour ago, janetosilio said:

2) if the market bears that price, then there’s nothing wrong with the price.

This is really all that needs to be said. And it has been, over and over, to those who do not understand what a free market is — that it is the seller alone that decides the price, the buyer that decides whether to buy or not.

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3 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

This is really all that needs to be said.

I don’t think it can be said enough on this forum. The “cause I say so” culture is pretty strong on here.

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4 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

I don’t think it can be said enough on this forum. The “cause I say so” culture is pretty strong on here.

And it’s not just the price but any other feature of any product: don’t like it, don’t buy it.

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The thing that really bothers me about shape sellers is that they're all so amazingly... horribly... BAD...

- I see all these tiny T-rex arms, tiny Trump-hands, 18-wheeler-wide butts, thigh gaps you can drive an army through, tiny heads, insanely over-the-top pear shapes, spider-long legs on tiny torsos, or rail thin bodies with no form/curve (opposite extreme of the wide butts).

Just...

bad quality...

All over the place...

 

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14 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

The thing that really bothers me about shape sellers is that they're all so amazingly... horribly... BAD...

- I see all these tiny T-rex arms, tiny Trump-hands, 18-wheeler-wide butts, thigh gaps you can drive an army through, tiny heads, insanely over-the-top pear shapes, spider-long legs on tiny torsos, or rail thin bodies with no form/curve (opposite extreme of the wide butts).

Just...

bad quality...

All over the place...

 

I am frequently astonished at how many people in SL appear never to have seen a human being. I mean, I know we all want to be perfectly proportioned supermodels, but there are rare and implausible shapes, and then there are absolutely impossible ones that don't even look nice. I think my pet peeve on those is the legs. Yes, long legs are desirable, but even the super-duper models don't have legs that are literally three times the length of their torsos. Christ, you people look like my laundry airer.

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54 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

And it’s not just the price but any other feature of any product: don’t like it, don’t buy it.

I concur. Anyone can have a gander at the "New TMP Legacy?" thread to see it. LOL

I suppose a lot those comments between the one I quote and this one are those I concur with (I do graphic design, so I really see it) are just laughable-annoyances, I'm not sure I'd call them pet-peeves. But one peeve is when I read reviews on Market Place products and they say nothing but "I couldn't get it to work" = One Star, or "Thanks a lot you do good work!" or "Just what I needed!" Ummm... how the F is that supposed to be helpful to the next potential buyer?

My favorite are reviews of Demo products. Like "One Star because it says modify and it's no modify." It's a FREAKIN' DEMO! Bahahaha!

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5 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

My favorite are reviews of Demo products. Like "One Star because it says modify and it's no modify." It's a FREAKIN' DEMO! Bahahaha!

I've reviewed demo products before IF it's indicative of something about the product.

Got some hair yesterday that was listed at "100% mesh" - the demo was half flexi. Didn't leave a review, but had to hold myself back on that...

 

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Before we get off the subject of expensive shapes, I'd just like to raise the spectre of certain male shape makers who charge L$800 and don't offer a demo.

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Just now, Skell Dagger said:

Before we get off the subject of expensive shapes, I'd just like to raise the spectre of certain male shape makers who charge L$800 and don't offer a demo.

We need a wtf button. 

Yeah, I know. We'll get a hug before a wtf.

Like that is ever going to happen.

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17 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I've reviewed demo products before IF it's indicative of something about the product.

Got some hair yesterday that was listed at "100% mesh" - the demo was half flexi. Didn't leave a review, but had to hold myself back on that...

 

I get it, though with hair, those that are partial-flexi are done right (I believe). So that would be splitting hairs. (See what I did there? LOL) - I think when a product listing is "partial mesh" people tend to think it may be inferior than 100% mesh, when (in fact) sometimes the plain old prim is more efficient. I also know it's partially motor-memory to just click the 100% Mesh button.

In full disclosure, if you would have left a review on that demo about it being partial flexi and nothing more, then that would be one I roll my eyes at and I would likely leave a scolding comment to it. :D

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I, on the other hand, would upvote that review since it gives me some new information about the product that the creator didn't deign to share. 😛

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27 minutes ago, Cinos Field said:

I, on the other hand, would upvote that review since it gives me some new information about the product that the creator didn't deign to share. 😛

You don't up or downvote Market Place reviews. The reason reviews on Demos are so silly? Because it's a demo - reviews by others are moot; you can just get one and review it for yourself, so whatever others say is meaningless.

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Just now, Alyona Su said:

You don't up or downvote Market Place reviews. The reason reviews on Demos are so silly? Because it's a demo - reviews by others are moot; you can just get one and review it for yourself, so whatever others say is meaningless.

You do effectively up or downvote them with the "was this review helpful for you" button, though!

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20 minutes ago, Cinos Field said:

You do effectively up or downvote them with the "was this review helpful for you" button, though!

I've never seen that response ever affect the placement of a review. They've always been sorted by date of the review. But either way, my point still applies: Leaving a review on a demo item is the reviewer's own conceit at best, intentional malice at worst. Because I can just grab one to determine it's worth for myself, why would I bother even looking at the reviews, much less caring what they say?

Edited by Alyona Su

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10 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

I've never seen that response ever affect the placement of a review. They've always been sorted by date of the review. But either way, my point still applies: Leaving a review on a demo item is the reviewer's own conceit at best, intentional malice at worst. Because I can just grab one to determine it's worth for myself, why would I bother even looking at the reviews, much less caring what they say?

Generally I find that the demo reviews are more honest than the full product ones for a few reasons.

One is that several big creators (which I can't name here, but makers of certain best-selling body parts for one) offer lindens for five stars, completely compromising the integrity of any reviews left. (this is also a topical pet peeve of mine...)

The second is that they avoid the sunk-cost fallacy.

I don't leave a lot of reviews myself, but every time I'm looking to buy something I read the reviews for both full product and demo, along with trying the demo for myself. But a hundred pairs of eyes can notice a lot of details that I'd miss when inspecting the demo alone. That approach hasn't steered me wrong yet. But that's just how I do it, and I don't want to make it seem like I'm imposing my opinions on anyone here.

Edited by Cinos Field
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24 minutes ago, Cinos Field said:

Generally I find that the demo reviews are more honest than the full product ones for a few reasons.

One is that several big creators (which I can't name here, but makers of certain best-selling body parts for one) offer lindens for five stars, completely compromising the integrity of any reviews left. (this is also a topical pet peeve of mine...)

The second is that they avoid the sunk-cost fallacy.

I don't leave a lot of reviews myself, but every time I'm looking to buy something I read the reviews for both full product and demo, along with trying the demo for myself. But a hundred pairs of eyes can notice a lot of details that I'd miss when inspecting the demo alone. That approach hasn't steered me wrong yet. But that's just how I do it, and I don't want to make it seem like I'm imposing my opinions on anyone here.

That's good for you, still a peeve for me. So we'll agree to disagree.

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5 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

I think when a product listing is "partial mesh" people tend to think it may be inferior than 100% mesh, when (in fact) sometimes the plain old prim is more efficient. I also know it's partially motor-memory to just click the 100% Mesh button.

In full disclosure, if you would have left a review on that demo about it being partial flexi and nothing more, then that would be one I roll my eyes at and I would likely leave a scolding comment to it. :D

Some people actively seek flexi, and others actively avoid it (it's more laggy and can clip and for some hair styles not very realistic - seeing flexi on afros, extreme curls, and so on leaves it not 'fitting' for African and often also Semitic hair.

In this example - it's a demo advertising wrongly.

Like buying a demo of a skybox and getting a house with a porch and walkway to the outside street - less extreme but still the same kind of mischaracterization. And BTW, an actual example of a product in my inventory...

I've also reviewed demos for bad fit, clipping / poketrhough, AND - good things I found.

I've even bought demos of things I bought inworld just so I could leave a good (or bad) review -somewhere-...

 

Sometimes I wish we could see the review history of reviewers - though I know sellers would use it to discriminate against buyers that are honest... As a consumer it would help me know to ignore reviewers that leave too many of those 'paid for' 5-stars...

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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38 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I've also reviewed demos for bad fit, clipping / poketrhough, AND - good things I found.

I've even bought demos of things I bought inworld just so I could leave a good (or bad) review -somewhere-...

As for fit, clipping, poke-through and the rest: all useless to everyone else unless they are wearing the exact same shape and mesh attachments that you are, no? Since it's a demo the shopper must look at it for themselves, so a review about how it fits *on you* is entirely useless, except to yourself should you revisit the product in a year or two. As of review on demos that state "...purchased in-world" - immediate suspicion of 1) competitor, 2) Someone who knows and likes this creator 3) someone who knows and hates this creator and so on. I think many feel like I do: it's an "illegitimate" review, except for whatever it is they say about the demo itself, which in turn is moot because the shopper can just get that demo and review for themselves. LOL.

No need to justify leaving a review on a demo item, keep doing it, there's nothing wrong with that and some people may even find it helpful. Because I roll my eyes at those doesn't make it wrong. It just makes it funny to me and casts more of an impression of the person leaving the review rather than the product being reviewed, that's all. :D

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Bloggers who don't post everything. Some people may disagree with me, and I am fine with that. I would just like to be able to know A what each object is, and B where to get it. It's a pain in the backside to have to ask for everything that you don't know where it's from. That and I feel like it's a bit of a cop out, just to make their job easier. That could be something totally different, and I could be wrong. But please post everything that you are wearing. If you don't want people to know your shape, say custom shape. If you don't want people knowing your exact skin colour, just put the name of the skin and who it's by.

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6 hours ago, halebore Aeon said:

Bloggers who don't post everything. Some people may disagree with me, and I am fine with that. I would just like to be able to know A what each object is, and B where to get it. It's a pain in the backside to have to ask for everything that you don't know where it's from. That and I feel like it's a bit of a cop out, just to make their job easier. That could be something totally different, and I could be wrong. But please post everything that you are wearing. If you don't want people to know your shape, say custom shape. If you don't want people knowing your exact skin colour, just put the name of the skin and who it's by.

Yes and no. I honestly don't care about which body, head, skin, shape, tattoo or hair you're using, unless you're specifically showcasing any of that list. Posting your head/body/skin etc combo in every single post (even though it never changes) is just a waste of everyone's time.

On the other hand, I saw a beautiful photo yesterday of a model wearing jeans, a top, a jacket and heels. The post listed the heels and the backdrop used. That was a big thinking emoji, for sure.

The big thing for me is location. Sims that a) don't look terrible, and b) allow the rezzing of pose stands are sadly a rarity. It's of course context specific (eg I don't need to know what sandbox you placed a backdrop on) but if a sim forms a big part of a photo, listing that is honestly a service to the community.

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7 hours ago, halebore Aeon said:

Bloggers who don't post everything.

Agreed. Crediting only your sponsors' items is lazy, and it can be annoying for many readers. Anyone who has blogged will know how time-consuming putting together the credits list can be (I typically set my Flickr uploads going, then tab back into SL with a sigh as I fire up Notepad and get ready to remember/search) but you're doing a disservice to your readers if you only credit the items you've been sent free of charge.

Case in point: I saw a fantastic shot on Flickr the other day. The outfit didn't interest me too much, but I really wanted the hair. It was a "click here for credits on my blog" kind of post, so I clicked, and the credits were only for the outfit, which was a sponsor item. Nothing at all about: hair, skin, eyes, accessories, makeup, backdrop/location, props, poses (and it was a busy shot with a lot of stuff in it). Some bloggers never change their underlying look (skin/hair/eyes etc) and those few will often have a separate page on which they list their one or two "base looks" but most do change, viewing those things as much part of the look as the outfit is.

I wish more bloggers would do what I do, and that's to include body rigs and head mapping options. This is a typical credits list from me:

626bc9c68c00ddfbadc952848683188a.png

The only reason why I didn't credit the skin there was because I'd post-processed the images with filters so that the skin texture was nigh on pure white with the only detail being deep shadows caused by the Windlight setting I was using, so I figured nobody would be asking me for that! There's also no backdrop info because that was just pure white.

Credits like the above help people to see at a glance if it's worth getting the item, or if it's only rigged for a body (or mapped to a head) that they don't own. I even try to include the hair colour pack that I used, if I can (not possible with some fatpacks, unless all the HUDs are included separately) as well as poses. I also note which things are review copies, because I don't maintain a sponsor list on my blog (honestly, my list is so small as to be almost non-existent; I'm a one-man shopping machine!) but I believe in transparency.

It can take me up to half an hour to put together a full credits list (or several hours if I'm distracted by helping in Catwa support). I usually note down which appliers I've used, as I'd invariably forget otherwise - especially the eyes and makeup - but it's vanishingly rare for anyone to need to ask me where I got something.

Edited by Skell Dagger
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