LL advertising private businesses in their blog?

[Ethan Paslong]

6 minutes ago, Hintswen Guardian said:

Just curious how everyone would feel if a linden had a seperate blog eg on blogspot and used that to advertise specific stores they like. Would you be ok with that because it’s not on the SecondLife.com website itself?

no for me it would be not ok.

As employee of a firm, and the firm itself should stay far away from promoting clients. ( in any form)
IF you feel the need to do it... you'l have to do it with all, ánd mixed, not only the big boys, but also the small... the good ones, and the amateurs.. random and skip none...

imposisble to do, so simply don't.

Stick to your own product.

[Akasha Sternberg]

@Dakota Linden @Xiola Linden come on guys we need you in here... this is not going to end on it´s own  ?

[Ethan Paslong]

3 minutes ago, Akasha Sternberg said:

. this is not going to end on it´s own  ?

ignore it if you don't like it...very simple

and i think the remark of Hintwen isn't feeding any hurted feelings, but guiding it to a totally right discussion.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Ethan Paslong

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Akasha Sternberg said:

@Dakota Linden @Xiola Linden come on guys we need you in here... this is not going to end on it´s own  ?

I've never seen a normal discussion thread that didn't end on its own. It's why there are only a small number of active threads at any one time.

What i think you mean is, 'come on guys we need you in here because everyone isn't agreeing with me'

Edited September 2, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

2 hours ago, Hintswen Guardian said:

Just curious how everyone would feel if a linden had a seperate blog eg on blogspot and used that to advertise specific stores they like. Would you be ok with that because it’s not on the SecondLife.com website itself?

 

Revised reply:-

Reading Tari's post below, I realised that I'd misread your post. I thought you asked if LL had a seperate blog, but you asked if a Linden had a seperate blog, so I mistakenly replied according to my misreading. My non-mistaken reply is that I wouldn't bat an eyelid if a Linden voiced his/her views on his/her own blog. I've posted twice in this thread that, if Xiola had posted it in the forum instead of as an official blog, I wouldn't have found anything to object to.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

9 hours ago, ChinRey said:

You mean they should go back to doing it with emails to all users again?

Or maybe Torley should start making instruction videos with "discreet" ads for his friends' stores again?

Or what if Ebbe did it the way your Linden namesake did, buy shares in some successful SL business and start promoting it any way he cold think of?

THis is how Linden Lab has always worked, Phil. You have to be seriously naive if you believe in the "free market, level playing field" myth.

1, 2 and 3: I'm not aware of any of those things ever happening. I'm not saying they didn't but I don't believe I ever saw any of them.

4: However, I do believe in a market where LL is not seen to promote any user's personal business interests, unless the promotion is available to all users; e.g. by selling advertising space, which does happen. I believe that's how it should always be here.

Of course, the Lindens are normal people, and they like/dislike things just like the everyone else, and I have no objection to any of them saying what they like and dislike. There are ways here for them to do it without making it seem to be an official thing.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Tari Landar]

1 hour ago, Hintswen Guardian said:

Just curious how everyone would feel if a linden had a seperate blog eg on blogspot and used that to advertise specific stores they like. Would you be ok with that because it’s not on the SecondLife.com website itself?

On their own personal blogs...absolutely, let them have at it. They are, ok some of them are, after all, residents too, even if they've got the name Linden. So, yeah, reading about the things they enjoy doing in sl-more specifically beyond the whole fashion industry thing, would be neat. But, it's something that should only happen in their own space, on their own time, not on Linden Lab's time or space..(make sense?). I like knowing that some of the LL employees aren't just hamsters banging away at keys all the time. Sometimes folks that work in areas that LL employees do, kinda feel like hamsters banging away at keys...and I get that completely. I feel like that much of the time lately. It's nice to be, uhh.."not a hamster banging away at keys"..-that is likely going to make no sense to anyone but me...that's ok though

On a blog meant to be an official blog, or one meant to be read by the masses(whether or not it is read by the masses is irrelevant) as statements made by Linden Lab and not just an individual AT Linden Lab...then no. 

 

But since I got way more long winded than I intended...

Here, have a couple pictures of my adorable buddy. He's being petty tonight (this morning? what day IS it anyway?) and refusing to look at me because I won't give him a cookie.

I bet you thought humans had that petty, temper tantrumy thing down pat, eh?

 

I like to imagine some people looking like this when others refuse to agree with them on everything....it makes debates way more funny for me  

 

 

 

 

[Phil Deakins]

Ty Tari. I'd misread Hintswen's post and replied to it according to that mistake. It was only when I read the first line of your post that I realised my mistake. I've now changed that reply accordingly. @Hintswen Guardian

Edited September 2, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Akasha Sternberg said:

@Dakota Linden @Xiola Linden come on guys we need you in here... this is not going to end on it´s own  ?

Xiola’s too busy shopping. ?

[Love Zhaoying]

..but seriously, it’s a holiday weekend here in the US, you might not get a tagged Linden to respond until Tuesday.

[ellestones]

4 hours ago, Hintswen Guardian said:

Just curious how everyone would feel if a linden had a seperate blog eg on blogspot and used that to advertise specific stores they like. Would you be ok with that because it’s not on the SecondLife.com website itself?

i would be ok with that. I wouldn't mind if Lastname Linden people vblogged about stuff they personally do, like and wear in SL

i do agree with you tho that if LL are entering into promo reward relationships with SL-related enterprises (inworld or outworld) then there should be a more formal programme for enterprises to join and participate. As you say being able to offer LL--backed rewards on your and any other blogs is a good thing for everyone involved  

[ChinRey]

4 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

1, 2 and 3: I'm not aware of any of those things ever happening. I'm not saying they didn't but I don't believe I ever saw any of them.

They had biannual MP sales for a while, inviting three merchants and promoting them with emails to everybody in the user base and big banner ads on the MP front page.

To be fair, I've only seen one Torley video where the cameara "happens to" catch some objects and a message saying "Thanks to [insert merchant name] for the lovely [insert item name]" popped up. It may have been a one-time slip.

I have not been able to confirm that Phillip Linden had a commercial interest in a breedable business. It may be one of those diehard myths on the forums, although I've heard it from people who usually do make sure to checkt their facts. (I always thought it was Sion's Chicken btw and assumed it was why it kept a reserved place on the "What's Hot Now" list for so long even though it was stone dead and never even filled the criteria for being listed in the destination guide at all. But something I read recently, made me think maybe it was rabbits or horses rather than chickens. Does anybody here still remember?)

---

We can discuss what is right or wrong here. Linden Lab is a business. Their goal is to make as much money as possible and their strategy is always about how to improve their own bottom line.

Second Life has never been a level playing field with equal opportunities for everybody, that was never more than false advertising. It may have meant more in the past when LL needed the services of an armada of small time content creators to fill up SL. They don't need them anymore, this place is overflowing with content now. So LL can now more openly focus on a few selected big operators in the SL market.
But they still need to maintain the myth because the level playing field where anybody can make money is such an important selling points. It's even at the web site's splash page:

I understand they've had those MP/email campaigns in the past too. I only saw two years of them. After that I opened a support case asking where I could apply to the next one and what criteia I had to satisfy to be invited. The answer was that it had only been a one-time experiment, they had not decided if they would do it again and if they did, there would be an open invitation to all merchants. They never did it again after that.

They try to keep the favorism as secret as they can and they are always thoroughly embarrassed about it all when somebody exposes it in ways they can't ignore. They have to. Imagine some official Linden spokesperson announcing:

"We have decided to cooperate with a number of selected merchants and landowners and work with them to forward out common interests."

That would be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and it would be fair and square if you ask me. But what would happen if they actually said it?

It's going to be very interesting to see what LL's response here will be. They'll probably try their usual Oyster Trick but this thread may actually get so bad some moderator will have to step in and lock it. They can't do that without at least posting some sort of comment about the topic and they can't deny it because it's way too obvious and plain for too many people to see.

(It is also going to be very interesting to see how project Arctan turns out. Generally speaking, LL's featured merchants are not the ones who will benefit from a more realistic load accounting. Linden Lab can't afford to tailor make Arctan to their favorite merchants, it'll have to be a noticeable and documentable improvement to the current accounting. But it will be some compromise, that's guaranteed. How far they are willing to go to accommodate specific merchants, will be very telling.)

Edited September 2, 2018 by ChinRey

[Phil Deakins]

I never saw the marketplace promotions because I've shunned the marketplace from its start. The other 2 aren't solid

Yes, LL is in it to make money, but I don't see how favouring certain SL businesses can help with that. Some people say that certain users get special treatment; e.g. Anshe gets cheaper sims. But I don't accept or believe that it's favoured treatment. Yes, she gets cheaper sims, but anyone can get them at cheaper prices if they buy enough sims. Anyone can negotiate a quantity price for sims if they are buying enough of them. Jack confirmed that years ago, but wouldn't be drawn on whether or not there were fixed quantity discount rates.

That's land. Merchants are different. I don't see any way in which LL favouring certain, presumably the bigger, merchants can make more money for LL, unless the merchants pay a cut of the profits to them, and I can't see that as being realistic. The biggest of merchants aren't taking fortunes out of SL, so what LL could gain from their cuts is quite small, and, imo, certainly not worth the risk of it getting out.

I don't know what project Arctan is, but I'm guessing that it's to do with limiting the ARC of objects, or limiting the display of high ARC objects, or something similar. If it's anything like that, LL always try to do new things so that they impact existing content as little as possible, so I doubt that it will be possible for us to know whether or not certain users were taken into account when making some decisions. I am sure that LL will always take users into account, just as they do when trying not to break existing content. But I don't believe there are any merchants big enough to have the sort of effect on LL's decision-making that you suggest.

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Blush Bravin]

6 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

The biggest of merchants aren't taking fortunes out of SL, so what LL could gain from their cuts is quite small, and, imo, certainly not worth the risk of it getting out.

I don't know what project Arctan is, but I'm guessing that it's to do with limiting the ARC of objects, or limiting the display of high ARC objects, or something similar. If it's anything like that, LL always try to do new things so that they impact existing content as little as possible, so I doubt that it will be possible for us to know whether or not certain users were taken into account when making some decisions. I am sure that LL will always take users into account, just as they do when trying not to break existing content. But I don't believe there are any merchants big enough to have the sort of effect on LL's decision-making that you suggest.

 

Again, your lack of understanding the shopping culture in SL is showing. I can think of three (Maitreya, Catwa, Blueberry) and I'm sure there are many, many more who are taking large sums of cash out of SL. I don't have any trouble if a company gives preferential treatment to their best customers. I'm a very small merchant. I don't have any issue with it. I think anything that promotes the shopping culture in SL is good for my business.

[Phil Deakins]

No merchant is taking a fortune out of LL, Blush. And I did say "fortunes". I'm not saying that none are taking a lot of money out - I used to do that myself - but not amounts that are so big that LL needs to modify their decisions on account of them.

Yes, I have very little experience of shopping in SL, but I do have a very large amount of experience of being a merchant in SL - one of the top earners before I decided that I didn't want it any more.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Blush Bravin]

6 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

No merchant is taking a fortune out of LL, Blush. And I did say "fortunes". I'm not saying that none are taking a lot of money out - I used to do that myself - but not amounts that are so big that LL needs to modify their decisions on account of them.

 

Fortune is a relative term. If I were making just 1/4 of what one of those merchants are making I would consider it a fortune.

[Phil Deakins]

I've no idea what they take out, but I believe that nobody is taking so much out that LL needs to modify what they prefer to do on account of any user. What LL could do is possibly give someone like Anshe a heads-up in good time to make any changes, before implementing something that would significantly impact her.

We've wandered down a little side road here though, and the road is only a matter of beliefs on both sides. Neither of us know that what we think is true.

I just don't see how LL favouring any merchant is helpful to LL in terms of profits, which is where this side road came from.

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Blush Bravin]

18 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I've no idea what they take out, but I believe that nobody is taking so much out that LL needs to modify what they prefer to do on account of any user. What LL could do is possibly give someone like Anshe a heads-up in good time to make any changes, before implementing something that would significantly impact her.

We've wandered down a little side road here though, and the road is only a matter of beliefs on both sides. Neither of us know that what we think is true.

I just don't see how LL favouring any merchant is helpful to LL in terms of profits, which is where this side road came from.

 

I agree that LL shouldn't favor based on merchant income though to be honest isn't that the fact with any good business with customers. You cater to your best customers... but that's beside the point really. The point to me is did Xiola do something wrong by posting a fashion blog with a stylecard attached showing where she got the items. I say no she didn't. I think it's good business and advertisement is good regardless. My opinion of course. 

[Phil Deakins]

Looking after your best customers is one thing, but promoting them to the detriment of other customers is another, and I think it's wrong. Also, those customers who take money out aren't the best customers unless they pay LL large amounts for land. It's those who pay LL the most who are the best customers.

[Ceka Cianci]

Maybe the others can do it if they go to linden lab and ask for permission like blueberry did.. Buy 10 accounts and have a give away..

It would be unfair if nobody else could do it..But I'm pretty sure they could ,if they wanted..

ETA: I don't think it's about favoring who bought  memberships or who people think paid to get on some blog though to be honest..

'Truth wasn't giving any away and uber I didn't see any and the the sim that was mentioned  Mitsumi Town in Tokyo probably wasn't either..

To me it was doing what all the rest of us do that share fashion tips or where we got our outfits..

She was just being one of us is all..

 

ETAA: I was just looking at past blogs and there is a link to  credits on everyone of them..

 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Ceka Cianci

[Jules Catlyn]

Phil keeps ignoring the fact that it wasn't just 2 brands that were "promoted". It was 4 actually and if i recall correctly  not every one of them is a big brand. I also stand by my statement that there is a level playing field because Lindens can shop where they want and share there experiences. Especially on the official blog. So, yes, i am still very much looking forward to future posts. 

Btw i do see that somehow different opinions are deemed wrong by some people. Looking at them as just being different opinions might be a lot more constructive.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Jules Catlyn
Keeping my backside safe

[Marianne Little]

This crap is craptastic. I always said Lindens should be more inworld, shop and live like one of us. I bet this makes more of them want to do it, right? Guys who don't shop, take pictures or blog should stay out of it, they are the only ones making a noise.

My two cent and I am out of here, and unlike others who say they leave, I am not coming back to post again.... and again.....?

[Coffee Pancake]

LL have historically refrained from naming specific vendors or brands, and unless there is a transparent way to get a little love from the game gods for your brand, they should continue to do so.

[Garnet Psaltery]

34 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Guys who don't shop, take pictures or blog should stay out of it, they are the only ones making a noise.

I'm not a guy, and I don't like it.  Well, I take a few pictures but not of fashion.  Fashion shots generally bore me comatose.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Garnet Psaltery

[Tari Landar]

41 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

This crap is craptastic. I always said Lindens should be more inworld, shop and live like one of us. I bet this makes more of them want to do it, right? Guys who don't shop, take pictures or blog should stay out of it, they are the only ones making a noise.

My two cent and I am out of here, and unlike others who say they leave, I am not coming back to post again.... and again.....?

I'm not a guy, but I don't shop-I loathe it, I don't blog-I haven't time for it, and I don't take pictures for anything other than my own enjoyment.....

So this means I shouldn't be able to share my opinion? Since when? Or does it mean I can only have an opinion that goes with the majority....I'm utterly confused. Though, I'm also not "making a noise", and I kinda sit on both sides of the fence known as "should lindens be able to blog about their sl shenanigans?".

Do you not have opinions on things you don't necessarily regularly participate in yourself? Come on now, lol, that's just nonsensical.

Of course you won't be back to answer, but, still food for thought, imo   

Edited September 2, 2018 by Tari Landar