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SamathaStarr
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I'm sorry, But I find it not only disturbing but sad that people are being charged a months Rent Real world rent house payments whatever To own land in SL. It is just sad that a Game, yes it is a game, would charge 300 plus a month plus set up fees that can go as high as 600 to own virtual land, I mean the really sad part is in  RL you take out a loan whatever, you buy your land once the loan is paid back the land is yours no more payments, normally 10 maybe 20 years to pay off, But with SL you are paying the same rates as land/home ownership payments in RL but you are paying them forever. This is just sickening, we get no help from LL with scammers or spammers in clubs/shops yet we have to pay an actual RL rent price just to own land and run a club.

I find it sad that this is going on, In a day and age where the monthly payment on a 50.000 dollar home loan, can be paid off with Payments as low as 400 to 600 a month or rent on a nice Apartment will run you around 300 to 400 a month, we are now paying 300 plus a month to own land in a game?

This is senseless, it is total creed and nothing more, the cost to maintain the servers is no where near that maybe 50 to 100 a month in the worst case.

But 300. No this is greed nothing else, It is sad and just stupid, people are paying upwards of 3600 a year just to have land in a game, A Game! WTF? that's a years payment on a new car, it's rent on a new home or even a second/vacation home, and you are blowing it on land in a game? and LL expects you to pay it even though they refuse to help with spammers and scammers and people harassing others. and Still you pay, I just wanted to run a nice club and have fun, but I've been scammed by BS Land sellers, RFG or some crap like that. Have a 1/2 homested from SLE, which is also crap low prims not even enough to really have the club and oh yeah, not to mention you are limited to 32 people on the land, wow, it's a bday party for a small family with no friends, Yet we pay 68 a month just for that, 120 to 180 a month for a few thousand more prims, and for a full region 20 to 30.000 prims over 300 a month, and this is considered great,

Nah I'm out, sorry I am not contributing anymore to a company that rips off it's customers and over charges for bs, and has zero interest in the community. so once my time has ran out I'm done. maybe one day I'll wake up and read in the paper( Virtual one through PS vr) or something. Linden labs closes doors leaving gamers stunned with no warning and no explanation,Attempts were made to contact LL But with no response.

Good luck and enjoy the day they close the doors and run away with all your money laughing at the stupidity .

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Sigh. Another complainer post. 

First off, even if you own your own home in real life ( I do) you have to pay TAXES each month as well as other fees sometimes. 

But most importantly it is your CHOICE to buy a sim. So if you don't want to opt in -- then simply DON'T DO IT!

Honestly this stuff gets tiring. 

 

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Actually I do own my own home and you do not pay taxes monthly, You pay home owners insurance but taxes are yearly and that's on the land not the home, get it right, and what's tiring is people responding with half thought out replies and acting like they know something yet wasting readers time by showing they know nothing,

And if you wanna kiss someone's butt don't do it on my post.

Edited by SamathaStarr
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Real estate taxes are generally based on the assessed value of your house & property, at least in the states I've lived in (U.S.).

I've also never seen rent on a house be anywhere near $300 per month. I'd guess $1500 per month and up is more typical.

Your post is so full of inaccuracies that it's not worth bothering to correct them. If you don't like how SL works you're not required to use it.

ETA: I'm thinking troll.

Edited by Parhelion Palou
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33 minutes ago, SamathaStarr said:

Actually I do own my own home and you do not pay taxes monthly, You pay home owners insurance but taxes are yearly and that's on the land not the home, get it right, and what's tiring is people responding with half thought out replies and acting like they know something yet wasting readers time by showing they know nothing,

And if you wanna kiss someone's butt don't do it on my post.

In the early years of many mortgages, particularly for first time home buyers, pro-rated taxes are added to the monthly mortgage amount and escrowed for payment at the end of the year. Ignoring the time value of money (which increased 0.25% in the US today) and cash flows, there's no difference between paying for a thing in monthly or yearly installments.

Property taxes are based on the assessed value of the property and any improvements upon it. Do you really think that two adjacent one acre lots, one containing a $50K home and one containing a $1Million McMansion, will pay the same property taxes? If so, you're complaining to the wrong people.

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52 minutes ago, SamathaStarr said:

Actually I do own my own home and you do not pay taxes monthly, You pay home owners insurance but taxes are yearly and that's on the land not the home, get it right, and what's tiring is people responding with half thought out replies and acting like they know something yet wasting readers time by showing they know nothing,

And if you wanna kiss someone's butt don't do it on my post.

First of all, most people know that taxes and insurance can be paid monthly as part of the mortgage payment, or yearly, ESP if you own your home outright. Second, most places the tax is most certainly on the home and land together.

Third, we have replied in our own posts not yours.. Do you mean the thread?

Fourth, the thread does not belong to you, anyone can post in it.

Fifth, what they said. If you can't afford something, don't buy it.

Sixth, see bolded.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

First of all, most people know that taxes and insurance can be paid monthly as part of the mortgage payment, or yearly, ESP if you own your home outright. Second, most places the tax is most certainly on the home and land together.

Third, we have replied in our own posts not yours.. Do you mean the thread?

Fourth, the thread does not belong to you, anyone can post in it.

Fifth, what they said. If you can't afford something, don't buy it.

Sixth, see bolded.

 

 

WHAT SHE SAID!

I always wanted to do that :D 

 

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Outside of the 3rd world, where can you pay only $600L a month rent in the real world? That is like what... just under $2.50...

And even $600 USD...  that is basically rent in Mexico or poorer.

I pay over $4000 USD / month... I'd love to pay my SL tier bill as my real life bill...

 

 

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11 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Sigh. Another complainer post. 

First off, even if you own your own home in real life ( I do) you have to pay TAXES each month as well as other fees sometimes. 

But most importantly it is your CHOICE to buy a sim. So if you don't want to opt in -- then simply DON'T DO IT!

Honestly this stuff gets tiring. 

 

Once again, I need a 'double/triple/quadruple like' button.

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11 hours ago, SamathaStarr said:

Actually I do own my own home and you do not pay taxes monthly, You pay home owners insurance but taxes are yearly and that's on the land not the home, get it right, and what's tiring is people responding with half thought out replies and acting like they know something yet wasting readers time by showing they know nothing,

And if you wanna kiss someone's butt don't do it on my post.

temp.JPG.a0f7e14771fe604e0f072efe96879572.JPG

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Why are you paying $300 a month and not $195, which you can pay for a full-prim sim if you get a grand-fathered sim on the secondary market, or pay the "pay-down" fee to get that tier. Many have done it. There are grandfathered homesteads for $95, too.

$300 is more like a parking-lot fee, not monthly rent, at least in New York City. 

I think it's helpful not to perceive sims in Second Life as land. They are more like boats, the definition of which is "a hole in the water into which you pour money".

Land is not an "investment" for a business, but a sunk cost of doing business. Rarely can you re-sell it for what you paid, and even renting is increasingly difficult.

If you are an end-user, you should look at it as an entertainment cost. If you spent $10 a day on movies or lattes or magazines in real life, or $300 a month, let's say, you wouldn't find it so terrible, but you might decide to cut down on those lattes or lunches or magazines because it adds up. It's better to rent than buy in SL for this reason, so that you can leave any time, hopefully with a refund, or when your rent expires, so as to avoid this recurring cost.

The Lindens look at sims as a frame for content, which they find more important, develop for, and hope to have serve as their revenue-maker some day, as sims are expensive and also unreliable as people keep finding them too expensive and dump them, hence the reduction of sims.

But the Lindens can't justify reducing the cost of these sims because anyone finds them expensive, because they cost money to run -- they rent them from server farms and those server farms have electricity, cooling, staff etc expenses. The Internet is not free; the liberation of content has covered up that harsh reality.

Perhaps the Lindens or somebody might figure out how to get the price of these things down, but I find in RL jobs working for web sites that people pay that much for Amazon servers for their web sites. 

There's a reason why you can't equate the "land" of SL to the real land of real life that might have a mortgage you could pay off, and then after that pay substantially less in taxes or upkeep: servers have recurring costs. The Lindens don't have their server farm bill stop because you've owned your sim for a year; their server farm's electric and water bills and payroll don't come to a natural end just because you paid tier for a year.

 

 

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On 15 June 2017 at 4:24 AM, SamathaStarr said:

Have a 1/2 homested from SLE, which is also crap low prims not even enough to really have the club and oh yeah, not to mention you are limited to 32 people on the land, wow, it's a bday party for a small family with no friends, Yet we pay 68 a month just for that

Quite apart from the fact that homestead sims are an overpriced waste for anyone running a public venue, realistically if you cant build a 40m square box with some disco lights, a mirror ball and the dance orb/contest board/tipjars with 2500 prims, then you really ain't trying.

We rent a 1/4 of a standard full region for 4700 ls a week, that works out as what about 80 usd a month? for 5000 prims, two of our neighbours run small badly built clubs on similar parcels.

You could have rented 1/8th of a full sim, same prim allowance as your half homestead, for 2500 L$ a week, and probably have had less problems with 'small family parties with no friends'

Don't blame everyone else for your dreams of being a wealthy club tycoon, failing...
 

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Well everything has its value...

Looking around at other online platforms I'd say LL is milkin the hell out of us.

We are all too invested and trapped in SL so we wont let go of our lands that easily.

Sales are however going down and sims closing every day. Its only a matter of time before LL will either have to drop prices or shut SL down.

They're keeping the price artificially high atm.

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4 hours ago, Adams Scarmon said:

Well everything has its value...

Looking around at other online platforms I'd say LL is milkin the hell out of us.

We are all too invested and trapped in SL so we wont let go of our lands that easily.

Sales are however going down and sims closing every day. Its only a matter of time before LL will either have to drop prices or shut SL down.

They're keeping the price artificially high atm.

Well they have to find some way to fund the white elephant money pit that is Project Stupid, In Vomit-Cam Geek-O-Vision!
 

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Part of the cost one pays Linden Lab for land goes to maintain all the abandoned land on the mainland. Maybe someday Linden Lab will realize if they lowered land costs, more people would buy land, thus maintaining their profit.

But obviously even with all that abandoned land, enough people are willing to pay current prices for land, and they have a healthy profit. So why should they do anything?

One easy way to increase interest in mainland, even at current tier, is to eliminate the classification rating of General, convert all General sims to Mature, and all Mature sims to Adult. If nothing else, the sale price of land would drop immediately on Zindra.

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5 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Part of the cost one pays Linden Lab for land goes to maintain all the abandoned land on the mainland.

I'm not sure how much it costs Linden Lab to keep an empty sim online but if it's anything like OpenSim, we're talking cents, not dollars.

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I would think it would cost the same as any other sim. Its not like an empty sim goes into "standby" mode until someone crosses the sim border. Every sim takes up dedicated server space regardless of if its maxed out in prims or just has a LL road crossing it. Even totally void of content, the terrain mesh is still there.

Edited by BilliJo Aldrin
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1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I would think it would cost the same as any other sim. Its not like an empty sim goes into "standby" mode until someone crosses the sim border. Every sim takes up dedicated server space regardless of if its maxed out in prims or just has a LL road crossing it. Even totally void of content, the terrain mesh is still there.

As I said, I don't know exactly how SL's server software works but it would be a horrendously inefficient system if each sim were permanently allocated its max amount of copmuting pwoer regardless of how much it actually used.

What I do know is that I have 33 sims running on my own private grid right now. They're running Sim-on-a-Stick with an outdated version of OpenSim and my fairly modest home computer has no problems whatsoever handling them all.

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So at what point does an empty sim power up? I could buy a whole sim, then 2 minutes later set out 30,000 prims containing 1000 scripts. It seems to me each sim must be in a full ready state 24/7. There can't be a sleep setting on mainland. Its just how it is. I know there was talk about sims going to sleep until someone looks at it or walks on it to save server space, but how practical is that? I'm suspecting not very, since its never been implemented.

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1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

So at what point does an empty sim power up? I could buy a whole sim, then 2 minutes later set out 30,000 prims containing 1000 scripts. It seems to me each sim must be in a full ready state 24/7.

Yes, and that's what I'm talking about, sims that are in a full ready state.

But we're talking abut empty sims, remember - abandoned land. The moment an avatar comes along and starts messing with stuff, it's a slightly different matter.

But even then, how much does it cost to keep a server online and running today? I mean, just running the computer and keeping it hooked up to the internet? That's nothing.

Bandwidth costs - it costs a lot - but an empty parcel doesn't need any of that. Managing, maintaining and monitoring the system cost a lot and of course, so does development but those are fairly constant expenses, whetehr there are 22,000 or 24,000 sims on the grid doesn't make much difference there.

 

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Just wondering... ok so all these empty abandoned sims are "idled", or taken offline until someone interacts with them, but I like to tp at random to sims from the world map. As soon as i hit "TP to", will i need to wait 5 minutes for the sim to come back online? Empty or full every sim has to be 100% ready 24/7, and the difference between maintaining a full sim and an empty sim would be minimal in terms of server costs. And bandwidth on a full maxed out sim costs nothing either until someone shows up.

Perhaps LL should just cut the number of mainland sims in half, and force everyone to move to the remaining sims, then their server costs would be reduced and everyone can get the cheep land they all seem to be demanding.

I don't think the land costs are excessive, but all I own is 4608 sq m

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11 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Just wondering... ok so all these empty abandoned sims are "idled", or taken offline until someone interacts with them, but I like to tp at random to sims from the world map. As soon as i hit "TP to", will i need to wait 5 minutes for the sim to come back online?

No. I'm not sure how to explain this in simple terms but I'll try (and yes I know, any computer geek here will say my explanation is too simplified and inextact ;))

If you look at the Statistics window (Ctrl+Shift+1), you'll see towards the bottom of the list there's something called Spare Time. Every 22-point-something milliseconds the server goes through all the tasks it has to do to keep the sim running and tries its best to perform them all. Unless the sim is overloaded, it has plenty of time to get it all done and usually it has some time left, that's the spare time:

5947a74374f21_Sparetimeexample.png.6a49385fc18d1944c1951e187d9d20cb.png

These are the stats from Windermere, a moderately heavy sim and as you see, the server still only uses two thirds of the allocated frame time. If the sim load is very light, the spare time may well be more than 20 ms. Here are the stats from Mesh Sandbox 3 on the beta grid:

5947a8b351263_Sparetimeexample2.png.4f03db6cc8681656e49cd6283edcec97.png

In this case the server needs less than five percent of the computing time allocated to do everything it needs to do to keep the sim running. That means the server can easily run 20 such low load sims on the power assigned to a single one. And this is still now a completely empty sim. When I took the screenshot, there were five avatars there and also quite a few objects scattered about. A completely empty sim wouldn't even need one percent of the allocated computing time.

Back in the early days, there was no way to use all that spare time. Each physical server was handling four sims and once all the tasks were done, the computer just sat there doing nothing while the miliseconds went by. Some of the more sensitive sim servers were probably bored to death. ;)

Today we have virtual servers, a bunch of computers working together to emulate a couple of good old servers. That means computing power can be used far more efficiently, if one of those virtual servers is underused, its superfluous powers is easily reallocated somewhere else in the network to do some other task, like running another sim.

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This has drifted pretty far from the original topic, but just in case it's of interest, there's an actual "idle mode" that sims enter when there's nobody around, taking some shortcuts to further reduce simulation processing that nobody ever sees. Simon supplied an FAQ back in 2012 when this was introduced.

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  • 1 year later...

 

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(I'm sorry, But I find it not only disturbing but sad that people are being charged a months Rent Real world rent house payments whatever To own land in SL. It is just sad that a Game, yes it is a game, would charge 300 plus a month plus set up fees that can go as high as 600 to own virtual land, I mean the really sad part is in  RL you take out a loan whatever, you buy your land once the loan is paid back the land is yours no more payments, normally 10 maybe 20 years to pay off, But with SL you are paying the same rates as land/home ownership payments in RL but you are paying them forever. This is just sickening, we get no help from LL with scammers or spammers in clubs/shops yet we have to pay an actual RL rent price just to own land and run a club.)

You can fully own your own home. You need to buy land and develop (buy a house, furniture, etc and sitck on it) it and it will be yours permanently.
 

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I find it sad that this is going on, In a day and age where the monthly payment on a 50.000 dollar home loan, can be paid off with Payments as low as 400 to 600 a month or rent on a nice Apartment will run you around 300 to 400 a month, we are now paying 300 plus a month to own land in a game?

 

 

Have a look around. Some land develops in here have paid out over $50,000 REAL Money in actual commissions. That's just one company.  And they are still growing.  Bonus here.  You can own multiple homes very easily. 

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This is senseless, it is total creed and nothing more, the cost to maintain the servers is no where near that maybe 50 to 100 a month in the worst case.

Learn to make money in here if that's what you're after.

 

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But 300. No this is greed nothing else, It is sad and just stupid, people are paying upwards of 3600 a year just to have land in a game, A Game! WTF? that's a years payment on a new car, it's rent on a new home or even a second/vacation home, and you are blowing it on land in a game? and LL expects you to pay it even though they refuse to help with spammers and scammers and people harassing others. and Still you pay, I just wanted to run a nice club and have fun, but I've been scammed by BS Land sellers, RFG or some crap like that. Have a 1/2 homested from SLE, which is also crap low prims not even enough to really have the club and oh yeah, not to mention you are limited to 32 people on the land, wow, it's a bday party for a small family with no friends, Yet we pay 68 a month just for that, 120 to 180 a month for a few thousand more prims, and for a full region 20 to 30.000 prims over 300 a month, and this is considered great,

Like I said.  DO YOUR HOMEWORK.  Linden Labs does not get involved in people's business unless it's their fault.  You need to check your figures better.

 

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Nah I'm out, sorry I am not contributing anymore to a company that rips off it's customers and over charges for bs, and has zero interest in the community. so once my time has ran out I'm done. maybe one day I'll wake up and read in the paper( Virtual one through PS vr) or something. Linden labs closes doors leaving gamers stunned with no warning and no explanation,Attempts were made to contact LL But with no response.

You are just plain wrong. Linden Labs do not cover inworld business disputes ... unless it's their fault... Getting the message?

 

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Good luck and enjoy the day they close the doors and run away with all your money laughing at the stupidity .

Your loss.

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