Am I really the only person that does not like mesh?

[Jillian Skinstad]

I really don't like the new mesh products and resent having it "pushed" at me if I want something.  So many of the excellent artists and designers have left or are leaving SL.  This could be because they cannot create or compete with the mesh products, or that LL is just not profitable anymore.

In an inverview the LL CEO gave (not sure where I saw the video, but believe it related to Gamers Magazine) he stated the average noob stays in SL ONE MONTH!!  Does this tell anybody anything?  I first came to SL about five years ago when at times there were 65,000+ logged on and people stayed inworld for years.  The average logon now might be 40,000 - I have no real way of knowing other than what I read.

The new viewer is not working (like I expected something different) and I am just so very disappointed seeing something I have enjoyed for so long being destroyed by what I see as corporate greed and lack of understanding of their target market.  Hopefully I am wrong about all of this, but after crashing every five minutes with the new viewer, not rezzing and walking around with half my body invisible trying to make some mesh outfit fit I still have to wonder if it was really worth it.

 

[KarenMichelle Lane]

Jillian,

This the SL Answers Forum not a discussion forum. Let's move this to the General Discussion shall we?

 

[Canoro Philipp]

mesh is not being pushed at residents, its like if you dont like red clothes and you feel they are being pushed at you because you see them in stores. you dont have to buy them, you can buy something else that you prefer. the artists that decide to not create mesh items will have their customers like you, that dont like mesh.

Second Life has had its up and downs, we can only hope that it will have more users that stay a longer time in the future.

its great that you have the choice to not wear mesh items, you can even still wear system clothes.

[Tari Landar]

I don't think mesh is really being pushed. Some creators might, but I don't think most are.It's just there, because it's (relatively) new. It's not corporate greed to want to make money. Sl is a business and they do have every right to earn a profit if they want. They sort of need to, for sl to be here for us at all anyway. I feel the same way about creators. Everyone else might believe most creators don't cash out or don't use their sl profits for rl expensese, but I don't believe it. I think a lot of creators do, even if they don't cash out huge amounts at once.

I don't much care for a lot of mesh things, either. Some of it looks awesome, on people it was made to fit. My numbers take me out of the running for any of the standard sizes, so most doesn't fit me anyway. I much prefer system clothes with sculpty bits here and there, like cuffs and stuff. There are still a TON of creators who make the kind of stuff I like, so I'm not worried.

On the flips side, lots of people love mesh and it looks great on them. So I'm glad there are creators that can and will cater to that too. There really is something out there for everyone. Some of us might have to look a tiny bit harder.

Mesh is just one more log on the fire, imo. I don't have to like, or buy it, but that doesn't make it a bad thing. Sl needs more logs on the fire to both grow and also improve. That means technology will advance, the tools we have will advance, the things we're offered as creators and consumers will advance. I saw the same arguments from people when sculpties started coming around. There's always gonna be something I don't like, or someone else doesn't like. I can live with that.

If your new viewer is being a pain in the butt, you may want to try one of the other viewers. Firestorm and singularity are the most popular. Maybe your pc and the sl viewer just aren't going to be best buds.

[Conifer Dada]

Most of us welcome more realistic graphics in SL.  Mesh has been a big step in this direction, although there are some negative side effects.  One is that it's taken away content creation opportunities for many residents, since doing good mesh requires a new set of skills and is difficult to do properly.  The other is that I suspect some mesh clothing items cause lag because of the huge number of polygons - I discovered this by accident when I went into 'wireframe' at a club and some mesh clothes looked almost the same in wireframe as in normal view!

 

[Jenny Siddeley]

To be honest, I'm pretty sure anyone who is an excellent artist and has mastered SL building tools to make awesome stuff will have no problem making good looking and optimized meshes too. It might require some patience and work at first in order to adapt but the idea that mesh is for professional only is really far from the truth...

Personally I'm not a big fan of mesh clothes either for now, but globally meshes are pretty nice and, just like sculpties, it won't replace normal prims, it's just an alternative and in several cases normal prims still remain the best choice.

[mypixlalt]

I wouldn't sign that new residents only staying a month has much to do with mesh (or that creating content seems more difficult because of it).

Some time ago, before mesh, I read something about content creators/merchants (not sure what the criteria was to fall under this category) being only a small percentage of the population. It was really low, like under 10%.

I just remember being very surprised!

 

I personally looove mesh, I only buy mesh clothes, I love mesh furniture and mesh houses and mesh avatars!

 

[Dilbert Dilweg]

I would imagine bad mesh creators can cause this kind of feeling of hate towards it. Mesh is no different than a regular prim. The prims are basicly mesh/obj type content. The default avatar is mesh. The land is mesh.. Its all mesh if you think about it

[Porky Gorky]

I see mesh as an alternative rather than a replacement for regular prim/sculpts. When I started creating in mesh I launched new brands so that I could keep my mesh and non mesh content separate. The non mesh still sells very well and after focusing on mesh for 2 years I am now building new content in sculpts and prims as there is still allot of demand for it, especially with prefab buildings as customers want the ability to rip them apart and to customize them. I think there is room for mesh and non mesh content in SL and customers are confirming that with their wallets.

[Syo Emerald]

I like mesh a lot. It makes some kind of clothing possible that wasn't possible before or looked horrible. Skirts for example were very limited in their options. Either very long or too short. Now I can wear any kind of skirt at any lenght without having a prim between my legs or same legs always sticking trough the skirt.

Same goes for shoes. I love wearing long boots that go over the knee. Finally I can wear and move with them without prims making odd movements and destroying the look.

Another great advantage is mesh when used in buildings. It reduces the primcount and can look quite wonderful. For furry avatars mesh is the best thing ever happend.

 

I don't see where mesh is pushed into anybodies face. If you don't like it, don't buy it. There are still many normal clothes, buildings and avatarparts available. And I have never heard of a merchand leaving SL because of mesh. That the typical account statistically only stays a month has other reasons (a month is by the way not enough to even learn the "old" building without mesh). SL is not easy to handle for a newbie. Many get frustrated or are simply to unpatient and leave within a day. They are pulling the statistics down, because on the other hand you have people staying here for years. Others leave because of drama or boredom.....or because they can't set themselves goals and things to do.

But the main reason why I think no merchand would leave because of mesh: If you can handle a sclupty you can survive handeling mesh.

 

I think you may have the feeling its pushed on you, because you can't stand seeing people wearing and using mesh around you. And because that has increased you think its pushed on you.

 

[jwenting]

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Dilbert Dilweg wrote:

I would imagine bad mesh creators can cause this kind of feeling of hate towards it. Mesh is no different than a regular prim. The prims are basicly mesh/obj type content. The default avatar is mesh. The land is mesh.. Its all mesh if you think about it

---

this. And the continuous anti-mesh FUD war by throwbacks who think anything introduced since the creation in ca. 2006 of V1 is by definition bad.

[Lasher Oh]

I have a lot of sympathy with your sentiments stated. I dislike Mesh too, especially mesh clothing which never fits and is too dammed fussy with all that alpha layer nonsense. Every so often I try to give it the benefit of the doubt and everytime I end up feeling I have just thrown good money after bad.

Thankfully there are still a lot of good, well detailed nicely rendered system outfits still available however  looking through the  main pages of the marketplace there is clearly a huge glut of the IMO inferior mesh offerings most likely because  most folks are sheep and tend to follow the crowd with LL pointing the way and many merchants following over themselves to satisfy the swarms demands.

We reap what we sow.

^L^

[mypixlalt]

*Baaaa*

[Syo Emerald]

Sad to hear you are not satisfied with your mesh clothing. Mine looks nice and I fit into it. Also why does anybody always equals mesh = just clothes?

  (and I'm glad alphalayer exist, I never want to have invisiprims again.)

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

Lasher Oh wrote:

I have a lot of sympathy with your sentiments stated. I dislike Mesh too, especially mesh clothing which never fits and is too dammed fussy with all that alpha layer nonsense. Every so often I try to give it the benefit of the doubt and everytime I end up feeling I have just thrown good money after bad.

Thankfully there are still a lot of good, well detailed nicely rendered system outfits still available however  looking through the  main pages of the marketplace there is clearly a huge glut of the IMO inferior mesh offerings most likely because  most folks are sheep and tend to follow the crowd with LL pointing the way and many merchants following over themselves to satisfy the swarms demands.

We reap what we sow.

 

^L^

---

Let's make one thing perfectly clear. All hair and clothing in SL, of any type, is bad as a simulation. Hair and cloth are incredibly difficult to simulate in a 3D environment - even the engineers at Pixar roll their eyes at their directors when they ask for complicated hair and clothing and they render frame-by-frame instead of in real time.

The only variable is the exact level of suckage in any given item. For some types of things mesh sucks less; for others older ways of doing things suck less. Regardless, for instance, EVERY LONG SKIRT IN SECOND LIFE SUCKS LIKE A TORNADO. They just suck in a variety of ways.

[Sy Beck]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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Lasher Oh wrote:

I have a lot of sympathy with your sentiments stated. I dislike Mesh too, especially mesh clothing which never fits and is too dammed fussy with all that alpha layer nonsense. Every so often I try to give it the benefit of the doubt and everytime I end up feeling I have just thrown good money after bad.

Thankfully there are still a lot of good, well detailed nicely rendered system outfits still available however  looking through the  main pages of the marketplace there is clearly a huge glut of the IMO inferior mesh offerings most likely because  most folks are sheep and tend to follow the crowd with LL pointing the way and many merchants following over themselves to satisfy the swarms demands.

We reap what we sow.

 

^L^

---

Let's make one thing perfectly clear. All hair and clothing in SL, of any type, is bad as a simulation. Hair and cloth are incredibly difficult to simulate in a 3D environment - even the engineers at Pixar roll their eyes at their directors when they ask for complicated hair and clothing and they render frame-by-frame instead of in real time.

The only variable is the exact level of suckage in any given item. For some types of things mesh sucks less; for others older ways of doing things suck less. Regardless, for instance, EVERY LONG SKIRT IN SECOND LIFE SUCKS LIKE A TORNADO. They just suck in a variety of ways.

---

^ THIS

Once mesh clothes are refined (Hello LL how long till the deformer?)  then a lot of the resentment will pass.  Small mesh objects are far superior in terms of detail and efficiency and a sculpt to all intents and purposes is just a very primitive mesh.  Mesh houses though are a tricky and long process to create and not easily made modifiable.  So there still exists a market and a need for prims, sculpts and mesh though as I said, as mesh is becomes more refined it will become the predominant way to create.

[Teagan Tobias]

Holds hand up, I don't like mesh, well for the most part. What I really don't like is the very poor way MOST of the mesh clothing fits. But through demos I have found a couple of stores that some how do it right. I think that over time mesh will get better (clothing) but until then demo demo demo.

Side note, there is one TPV that has a mesh deformer in its test viewer. Kokua 3.6.1

[Czari Zenovka]

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Jillian Skinstad wrote:

I really don't like the new mesh products and resent having it "pushed" at me if I want something.  So many of the excellent artists and designers have left or are leaving SL.  This could be because they cannot create or compete with the mesh products, or that LL is just not profitable anymore.

In an inverview the LL CEO gave (not sure where I saw the video, but believe it related to Gamers Magazine) he stated the average noob stays in SL

ONE MONTH!!  

Does this tell anybody anything?  I first came to SL about five years ago when at times there were 65,000+ logged on and people stayed inworld for years.  The average logon now might be 40,000 - I have no real way of knowing other than what I read.

The new viewer is not working (like I expected something different) and I am just so very disappointed seeing something I have enjoyed for so long being destroyed by what I see as corporate greed and lack of understanding of their target market.  Hopefully I am wrong about all of this, but after crashing every five minutes with the new viewer, not rezzing and walking around with half my body invisible trying to make some mesh outfit fit I still have to wonder if it was really worth it.

 

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I agree with you 100%.  IMO, it takes a lot more skill to make amazing items from prims than just purchasing a mesh model or sculptie map from someone else then texturing it and putting it up for sale.  There *are* some merchants who learned how to create their own mesh and are incorporating it into their builds but many are purchasing a mesh model of <whatever>, texturing it, and selling it.

I have disliked mesh from the outset and will not purchase any mesh items.

[Teagan Tobias]

General reply:

IMO. Selling mesh you made from a blank is wrong. The fact that so many “creators” use blanks and then take out there crayons and color it is just wrong. No you did not create it, you colored it, lower the price by about 80% or create you own stuff.

[Eve Greymoon]

"The new viewer is not working"

It's working fine for me.  What problems are you having? 

What exactly is it you don't like about mesh? I have not had any problems finding non-mesh clothes of great quality.  Most of the creators that I have seen leaving SL has been because their skills have not kept up with the market, and their sales have subsequently plummeted, be they mesh creators or not makes no difference.  Any company, SL or RL, has to evolve or they will not retain market share.

There was an interesting info graphic posted for SLs 10th birthday celebration.  It said there are about 1 million people that log into SL every month.  I am thankful they don't all log in at the same time.  Think of the lag!

I think the Drax files recently did an interview with Rod Humble, that may be where you got the 40k figure.  Here's a link to some of what he said http://modemworld.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/the-drax-files-a-humble-view-of-the-world/

I think the death of SL is being greatly over-exagerrated...again.

 

[Shelby Silverspar]

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Jillian Skinstad wrote:

 So many of the excellent artists and designers have left or are leaving SL.  This could be because they cannot create or compete with the mesh products, or that LL is just not profitable anymore.

 

---

Where did you get the idea that so many artists and designers are leaving or have already left SL? Or that they are all in it for the money?  Many don't really leave, they re-brand and open new stores. Many don't ever make a profit at all, they do it because they love it.  For every artist/designer leaving the neighborhood, there are just as many just getting started. SL evolves, it always has. If you don't like mesh clothing, it's really easy - you don't have to buy or wear it. Remember that in SL mesh is still in it's infancy and many creators are just now getting into their stride with it. Many designers are still creating non-mesh items as well -- for instance, my store is full of non-mesh items and new stuff gets added often - but I'm not here to advertise :matte-motes-big-grin:

 

 

[Senobia Xenga]

Mesh clothes don't work with my avatar. I have more pixels than the average cartoon and my butt always hangs out of the clothes. Some of them do look nice though - on other people. I won't be buying any of it.

Mesh furniture just looks bleh to me, sorta flat. 

Mesh shoes, eh - they're alright.

[Deej Kasshiki]

I'm not especially a fan of mesh either because it can't be modified. I've tried a couple of pieces and am pretty "meh" about it.

I have all the "big ticket" items (house, furniture, vehicles, etc.) that I need. Most of what I buy now is clothing and most of the mesh items, even the stuff that comes in multiple sizes, don't seem to be made with smaller avatars in mind (my normal av is 5'9" and not overly muscled). Since it can't be modded (and I don't want to be constantly adjusting my shape) that means using silly alphas to hide my body. Those don't always work, especially for furries. I just bought some tank tops the other day from an established designer and the alphas have very noticeable gaps between the mesh and the non-alpha covered parts of my avatar. Looks really bad.

There are a lot of problems with the way mesh is done in SL and I'm definitely not a fan but, for the most part I just ignore it all and go about my business. If that deformer project ever gets off the ground maybe I'll take another look.

[Amie Kaestner]

Mesh is a superior to sculpties. They take up less bandwidth and can use more detail compared to sculpts and personally, I'm tired of wearing avatars that look like jointed action figures.

If builders are leaving because they can't adapt to SL's changes then they shouldn't be missed.

[Dillon Levenque]

I don't dislike mesh, but it did make a big differrence in everyday content creation. I don't mean creation for marketing purposes, I mean creating for fun. The simple build tools of Second Life could be, if not mastered, at least pretty well understood with a few classes or tutorials and almost all of the learning and building was done inworld. That simply isn't the case with Mesh.

I've seen a lot of mesh clothing I like but almost nothing fits me personally so I have very few articles of mesh clothing: mostly bulky coats and sweaters. I continue to wear system clothes with sculptie/prim attachments. On the other hand I have a couple pair of really cool mesh shoes and will probably get more.

To the OP: I can sort of see why you feel mesh clothing is being pushed at you. Seems to me most of the large stores/well-known creators whose stuff I've looked at have way more mesh than non-mesh and I don't see a lot of new non-mesh clothing from them. That's I think just the way of things mercantile: mesh sells. The system stuff is still there, and btw is often at a discounted price. You just have to look for it.