Is Lindenlab choosing a doomed path for SL ? Tell us if the EEP and PBR introduction changed the way you play SL

[Vivienne Schell]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

How so?

People have always been able to use their own EEPs in other places.

I never favored that. There are some thumbs down for the entire EEP hype thing. Which most of all let the very most people run their viewers on "Midday" and done with it.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Right. Sorry.

Leaving now!!!

/me pretends to close the door behind her.

But Moooommmm!

You said Trolls aren't real!!

DON'T LEAVE US!!

[Paul Hexem]

1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said:

I would not. If i had 6th or 7th gen i´d seriously think of getting a completely new machine. 8th would not require a new motherboard and still work for the upcoming years.

Not great advice if we're on a budget.

The PSU, case, GPU, RAM, that could all work perfectly acceptably on a new mobo.

The whole point being made over and over in this thread is to not buy a whole new computer, upgrade as little as possible in one sitting.

[Irina Forwzy]

1 hour ago, Codex Alpha said:

I really don't know why any particular speaker is for or against something here, as they don't usually back it up with any reasoning. So far I just see elitism, instead of understanding, and trying to find solutions.

For me, as a creator(if I bother continuing), I care about my stuff looking as intended, and not having to change my workflow specifically for SL - so far I didn't have to, after figuring out how I'd convert from PBR to SPC, but like I said, it's an end-user issue.
FFS, I never heard of EEP nor had any reason to use it, as I don't run sims. So most of us are at their mercy. no probes, no EEP,  set up correctly - why would I put up PBR stuff when it could just garner complaints and low ratings?

In fact, this may drive out the few entrepreneurial creators that are doing SL as a hobby. We already knew that mesh eliminated  a large volume of them. This will change it.

My fear is that eventually we have creators that are basically professional ones creating for these platforms with the bar to learn both object and texture creating being set higher by the day to the point that it may be easier just to get the degree in rl and get the job.

I'm not against PBR, what I would have preferred was a slow shift toward it with much more documentation and LL support toward the community so that there were far fewer creators opting out.

[Vivienne Schell]

Just now, Paul Hexem said:

Not great advice if we're on a budget.

The PSU, case, GPU, RAM, that could all work perfectly acceptably on a new mobo.

The whole point being made over and over in this thread is to not buy a whole new computer, upgrade as little as possible in one sitting.

Sure, but then you either one has a friend like you with the necessary (and proven)  skills or one must pay someone for the work. I´d not try my luck on fiddling with some expensive hardware.

[Irina Forwzy]

1 hour ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Because we have lives.  Having to support two different rendering engines, one from the dinosaur era and one from the present is a major pain in the ass. Would you want to double your work load to support people who wouldn't clean their computer or buy a $200 GPU after twenty years?

Our lives are precious, we want to spend our time creating content with the best tools of our time. Most creators constantly run up against the limits of our tools. We don't want to live on a platform that exists in the past, because we exist in the present and want to be a part of it. We want to have useful skills that are relevent to the present.

But companies do these very same actions at times when they are aware that a large percentage of their clientele are into the historic items.  Please look into why so many software games and products fail.

You know why? Because they hit the market and produce to to the innovators or early adopters that are the ones that jump for a new 400 electric toothbrush with an application and features up the yoohaw! (And yes, I'm actually one of those that did get that expensive one only for it to last 4 years).  

But they forget to transition their products and add support for the Late Majority and Laggards. Eventually their product doesn't have enough revenue to continue and has to cut development on FUTURE products for the Adopters and then we drop it.  You basically need to make as many people in ALL of your adoption life cycles happy.  If not your business becomes toast.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

But Moooommmm!

You said Trolls aren't real!!

DON'T LEAVE US!!

Dahling, you're nearly an adult now. It's time you learned the truth.

There be dragons here.

And monsters are real.

[Vivienne Schell]

2 minutes ago, Irina Forwzy said:

In fact, this may drive out the few entrepreneurial creators that are doing SL as a hobby. We already knew that mesh eliminated  a large volume of them. This will change it.

My fear is that eventually we have creators that are basically professional ones creating for these platforms with the bar to learn both object and texture creating being set higher by the day to the point that it may be easier just to get the degree in rl and get the job.

I'm not against PBR, what I would have preferred was a slow shift toward it with much more documentation and LL support toward the community so that there were far fewer creators opting out.

Look at Turbosquid, DAZ and other platforms. The real professionals use them, if they are not hired by some game company or 3D studio. No one of these ever will make SL their only source of income. At best, they sell their stuff to people who resell it in SL royalty free (or not). That does not mean that ALL sellers in SL do not create original meshes for professional reasons. But the hope that "professionals flock into SL" cause of mesh imports died lately in 2015. PBR does not really change this. It hits the lower end/midrange customer base, not really the creator crowd.

[Theresa Tennyson]

Theresa Tennyson mumbles to herself, "I swear, it's like watching an AI chatbot start to hallucinate..."

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Dahling, you're nearly an adult now. It's time you learned the truth.

There be dragons here.

And monsters are real.

It's a good thing I'm a lion! Rawr!

[Flea Yatsenko]

1 hour ago, Porky Gorky said:

On the other hand, there has been a huge upsurge in people buying PBR materials since the weekend. So whilst some are in here complaining, many are out there, getting their PBR vibe on!

Yeah I noticed the same too, specially when I use slfind.com to sort by L$/day earned. The votes with L$ are definitely outweighing the votes from forum posts.

[Irina Forwzy]

It is reasonable to see an uptick in PBR sales starting right after a release.  That does not automatically mean it's a success. The succession is in the upcoming weeks.  People are logging in with PBR, some are buying to test how things look others because PBR really is working for them and given that there aren't that many products with PBR those that are selling it will see a bump in sales.

The success is if you see a slow trend going up and increasing over time until the market is saturated.

Edited Tuesday at 07:17 PM by Irina Forwzy
Added context

[Chery Amore]

38 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

Sure, but then you either one has a friend like you with the necessary (and proven)  skills or one must pay someone for the work. I´d not try my luck on fiddling with some expensive hardware.

I actually agree with this.  I personally won't do anything but stick more memory in and dust it out. Then I need help for everything else. So you either have a friend that can talk you through it or you take your chances getting fleeced because you don't know any better. Lol.. good thing the friend I have that can talk me through stuff is knowledgeable but still  *side-eyes Paul*..

People with techy skills should understand that we all don't have them. Darn elitists! It's kind of like having people skills, some do and some don't, and some can get by.

[sirhc DeSantis]

Fascinating. The whole PBR thing has doubled the number of people logged in to the forum. From 40ish to 80ish. Thats close on 0.4% of inworld:) Well worth the effort. Oh wait - they are not all here...hmmm
Well done. (checks inworld chatter - oh my)

Seriously we have seen all this before.

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

On a not unrelated matter.

@Arielle Popstar and anyone else looking for a PBR-optimized EEP that reasonably closely replicates the look of CalWL,

On the strength of Qie's recommendation, I just got Jenna Huntsman's free PBR EEP set, and the "daylight" EEP is pretty much what I suspect you're looking for. It's bright but not washed-out. Too bright for my everyday use, but still good.

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/PBR-EEP-Collection-Windlights-DayNight-Cycle-Midday-Night/25626640

(I really like the night setting too.)

Thank you for this! I didn't know where to start looking for a decent setting I can leave on and totally forget about. 😂

Are you still having performance issues, by the way?

[Codex Alpha]

4 minutes ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

Fascinating. The whole PBR thing has doubled the number of people logged in to the forum. From 40ish to 80ish. Thats close on 0.4% of inworld:) Well worth the effort. Oh wait - they are not all here...hmmm
Well done. (checks inworld chatter - oh my)

Seriously we have seen all this before.

 

Yes, the classic spike when people come to see what happened, to see changes, or some drama , then back to normal..

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Paul Hexem said:

I know this conversation came up on reddit and I'll say basically the same thing here that was said over there- Anyone that's ever said "it's not a game" is to blame for people's expectations and computer buying advice being bad. Should have been telling people to buy like it's a game from day one.

Laptops are definitely a bad choice, but even if you do need to completely replace it, you can still look at second hand, refurbished, or slowly building up a desktop. There's options.

This is why we now remove those discussions.

It's not a game .. IT IS NOW

[Paul Hexem]

10 minutes ago, Chery Amore said:

*side-eyes Paul*..

I'll have you know I've been referred to as a superhero.

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

My, that was said confidently...

Show us your figures.

Yeah, just looked those numbers up and there wasn't anywhere near 50000 total Sims ever.  Around 31K in 2011 and 28K now.   Would that be considered gaslighting?  Asking for a friend.

[Marianne Little]

2 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

I really don't know why any particular speaker is for or against something here, as they don't usually back it up with any reasoning. So far I just see elitism, instead of understanding, and trying to find solutions.

For me, as a creator(if I bother continuing), I care about my stuff looking as intended, and not having to change my workflow specifically for SL - so far I didn't have to, after figuring out how I'd convert from PBR to SPC, but like I said, it's an end-user issue.
FFS, I never heard of EEP nor had any reason to use it, as I don't run sims. So most of us are at their mercy. no probes, no EEP,  set up correctly - why would I put up PBR stuff when it could just garner complaints and low ratings?

If it looked good before PBR, it is good. I just put down tiered garden walls that was made in 2016. They do not even have materials.

I do not like PBR, but with a better enviroment setting than the old Windlights, it is tolerable. This is an adjustment period. It feels rushed, but it is a tradition that LL introduce things that need a lot of tweaking, and people say that now, now is the end of SL.

I do not think all we buy and use in SL will be PBR. It will take years- maybe a decade. If SL is still existing in ten years and I am here, maybe my garden is 100% PBR products.

[BriannaLovey]

If FS disables their current versions from logging in now, I will compile binaries myself with the version blocking removed and start handing them out to people. Others will probably do the same. LL seems that they are fine creating the incentive to completely disregard any of the official TPVs (except @Henri Beauchamp's; hopefully he is prepared for impending FS refugee crisis.)

[Jase Devin]

13 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Yeah, just looked those numbers up and there wasn't anywhere near 50000 total Sims ever.  Around 31K in 2011 and 28K now.   Would that be considered gaslighting?  Asking for a friend.

I think what's important is Concurrent Users, and this is a dying game.

taken from: https://danielvoyager.wordpress.com/second-life-statistics/

 

NOW

Second Life User Daily Concurrency Level – Updated: 10th June 2024

• Maximum: 43, 000 – 48, 000 (average)
• Median: 34, 000 – 38, 000 (average)
• Minimum: 27, 000 – 29, 000 (average)

 

PEAK

88, 220 – 29th March 2009 at 1:28pm SLT

 

Historical

• 60, 068 was the highest peak for Maximum Daily Concurrency – 13th April 2020
• 57, 746 was the highest peak for Maximum Daily Concurrency – 25th March 2021
• 55, 737 was the highest peak for Maximum Daily Concurrency – 5th February 2022
• 53, 567 was the highest peak for Maximum Daily Concurrency – 30th January 2023
• 53, 016 – 19th February 2024 (so far)
• 88, 220 – 29th March 2009 at 1:28pm SLT – highest peak ever!
• 86, 584 – 15th March 2009 at 3:57pm SLT
• 81, 913 – 28th February 2009 at 2:50pm SLT
• 80, 000 – 12th January 2009
• 70, 821 – 21st September 2008 at 1:58pm SLT
• 60, 000 – 14th January 2008 at 1:45pm SLT

 

So what do we see?

Game peaked in 2009 and has been slowly declining ever since.

So what will make it better?

Shove a Alpha Release down everyone's throat ??

 

With this data I predict after this Alpha Release gets implemented 2 things.

#1 Concurrent users fall below 30,000

#2 CEO of Linden Labs has to find a new job

 

After all Concurrent Users = Sales

Sales Plummet after a bad call from higher management = Sales Plummet

And any of us in this economy, with products or sims will bare the brunt of this and the game will sadly quietly go away.

It doesn't have too, but this is the outcome that has been chosen.

 

 

 

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

I really don't know why any particular speaker is for or against something here, as they don't usually back it up with any reasoning.

Lot's of people replied...

"Gah! Pretentious Bloody Rubbish, it's DE-saturated, OVER-contrasted, just like that failed piece of sh*te, Sansar, and it makes SL look like crap, oh and it tanks the FPS too."

 

That's their reasoning for disliking it

 

Lot's of other people replied...

"Yay! PBR is leet, finally LL have created something I don't understand that drives out the filthy poor people who can't afford to drop a couple or three grand on a new leet PC like mine, also, I took out a mortgage on Adumby Substance Abuse, and am now flooding my MP store with bloody awful PBR materials presets, most of which I stole off the web for free!"

 

That's THEIR reasoning for liking it.

 

2 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

they don't usually back it up with any reasoning

Wake up and try READING other peoples posts.

 

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

5 minutes ago, Jase Devin said:

#2 CEO of Linden Labs has to find a new job

Not going to happen, he's the owner, he won't fire himself.

He'll just blame an underling and fire them.

 

 

[Jase Devin]

2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Not going to happen, he's the owner, he won't fire himself.

He'll just blame an underling and fire them.

 

 

I didn't know that, thanks for the enlightenment!

Yeah blame others I guess hahahah.

Now its starting to make more sense whats happening actually.

Someone showed him/her this shiny thing here and he said "We have to have that! at all costs!"

Edited Tuesday at 08:30 PM by Jase Devin
added