So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

10 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

I honestly don't see the point of G M A anymore. They should just make it G and A and keep kids on G if M isn't even safe under the new TOS changes. 

I want to quickly address this, and a similar suggestion from @Fluffy Sharkfin earlier in this thread.

No. Because there are grey areas here. My own parcel is "G" rated; I'd probably prefer that it were "M" but it makes no practical difference to me. But there is a difference between a region where sex is going on behind closed doors only, and one in which it's happening on a front lawn, or where your next door neighbour is an open and public BDSM venue. And there IS a difference between a non-sexual "nude beach," and one where sex is permitted. Losing "M" means eliding all of the nuance and gradients in experience that we currently enjoy.

There's another point, too: "A" ratings apply not merely to sexuality but also to "extreme" or "graphic" violence. (Which is stupid, and I've complained about this many times since 2009, but there you are.) Getting rid of "M" would mean that anyone who wanted to express their sexuality, even in private, would be potentially exposed to some pretty nasty stuff, including but not limited to Dolcett, snuff, r*pe play, or even just non-sexual graphic violence. And for some people that's not merely unpleasant: it can actually be extraordinarily triggering. (And yes, I mean "triggering" in a technical sense, and not just "Ewww, that's gross").

Removing "M" removes a really important tool that we all have to customize our experience of SL, and ensure that it is not merely pleasant, but also "safe."

Edited May 5 by Scylla Rhiadra
Clarity

[Rowan Amore]

5 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Well, then that's a problem. Perhaps I got it confused with MY ability to only have visitors to my land with that. I'm surprised that is not standard for any Adult area... well there's something that can be fixed immediately. Age verification is important for adult areas and activities.

Might want to read the ToS and the Knowledge base.  No one needs PIOF.unless a specific region requires it.  PIOF is usually to prevent alts from entering although all of.mine have PIOF.  

Age verification has nothing to do with access to Adult in regards to child  presenting avatars.

Edited May 5 by Rowan Amore

[Ceka Cianci]

13 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

Are you allowed to be nude on moderate regions in public? Or only in private? That makes a difference. 

If you're in a moderate or General sim and someone comes running around you nude and you're not nude. You aren't breaking any rules.. If a boat load of nude people decided to take a picture with you in the foreground and you're not nude..  You aren't breaking the TOS.

[Rowan Amore]

9 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Nope, then they want to argue with me endlessly, when I and others DID read it.

Obviously not

[Coffee Pancake]

Age verification is coming .. see lab gab.

 

[Codex Alpha]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Conjecture. None of us has any real idea of how governance acts or doesn't. Who even knew Governance has a "tree" that they refer to for severity of infractions?

Of course it's conjecture. I'm not on staff. I can only HOPE that they are rational in their investigations. Old LL Staff from the platform that which will not be named did not have this temperance. I hope they're not here, doing what they did over there!

[CaithLynnSayes]

I poke my head in every now and then. First of all, i'm really surprised this thing isn't locked yet. (lost a bet with a friend on that.) But this now really feels like:

PS: I won't share my opinions on all of this, LL would deleted them anyway, lol.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

15 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

No.

Engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected.

Present, in this context, has nothing to do with your presence, but rather that that sexual activity is occuring 'present'.

This will be in Adult only areas.

So if you are a child avatar, don't go into Adult areas. It's simple.

If you are going to quote the ToS, learn to read it.

 

Your first mistake is assuming adult nudity can only happen on A Rated Regions.

This is WRONG, non sexual adult nudity is allowed on M Rated regions.  It's already been clarified in this thread that if a child avatar visits an M rated location, where one MIGHT expect adult nudity, say a "skinny dip" lake, and a naked adult shows up, the child avatar is expected to LEAVE or be in violation of the ToS.

 

19 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

If you found yourself in  such an area, then report THEM for carrying on nudity and/or adult activiites in a non-Adult zone

And that would be a FRAUDULENT AR, and considering that you've referred to people who file AR's as "snitches" and "tattletales" more than once in this thread, and often in other threads, somewhat hypocritical of you.

 

 

[Persephone Emerald]

9 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

You have previously said that some adult females are slim and some are not which is true.  If two avatars with the same shape are standing next to each other, the face would be the next indicator of approximate age.  It's subjective, yes.  But overall, faces would be a better indicator than shapes.

It's a small detail that might not be noticeable on avatars, but anthropologists can tell whether a skeleton is that of a child or an adult, and a biological male or female, by the shape of the pelvic bone. Hips on an adult female avatar should thus be a little wider vs. those on a child or male avatar.

[brodiac90]

So basically, G land is the only place where kid avis can reasonably expect to be safe from nudity. 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

I poke my head in every now and then. First of all, i'm really surprised this thing isn't locked yet. (lost a bet with a friend on that.) But this now really feels like:

PS: I won't share my opinions on all of this, LL would deleted them anyway, lol.

Naw, new stuff does come up but there is a small group that keep regurgitating the same stuff.

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, Wincil said:

Again faces alone cannot approximate age I doubt it is subjective and no faces are not a good indicator.

Did I say faces alone somewhere?  I said after shape, if the shapes are.similar, the NEXT indicator would be face.  After that, perhaps how they're dressed, their AO, accessories, hair.  It is VERY subjective as we've already seen.

[Codex Alpha]

nm. don't care.

Edited May 5 by Codex Alpha

[Angelina Sinclair]

I realized something today. LL will need to provide us with linden home options on differently rated sims.

You can easily have neighbors with child avas, all while you re-enact your worst 50 Shades impression in your RedRoom.

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, brodiac90 said:

So basically, G land is the only place where kid avis can reasonably expect to be safe from nudity. 

Moderate too, as you can't have nudity out in public. 

[Love Zhaoying]

16 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oof.

I really do feel we are now repeating ourselves. I guess, as new people join the thread, that's somewhat inevitable, but still . . .

Yep, plus people newer to the Forums may not know to read the first few posts first. I think it's been cycling like that since the start, people coming in from seeing the TOS notices, etc.

[Ceka Cianci]

3 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

So basically, G land is the only place where kid avis can reasonably expect to be safe from nudity. 

If you are looking to avoid nudity that is your best bet of avoiding it.. But you're just as allowed on Moderate..

Nudity is not an adult activity.. If it was they wouldn't chance letting child avatars  on moderate regions..

Edited May 5 by Ceka Cianci

[Ineffable Mote]

Nobody likes to read, and I realize comprehension isn't everyone's strong point, but otoh people love to conveniently play dumb, too. Given this thread being what it is, it's hard to give benefit of the doubt.

Edited May 5 by Ineffable Mote

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, brodiac90 said:

So basically, G land is the only place where kid avis can reasonably expect to be safe from nudity. 

G land is the only place where anyone can reasonably expect to be safe from nudity. That is the point of "G" rated areas.

I really do think it's pretty clear from the FAQ that you do not have to worry about "accidental exposure" to nudity in an M rated area. In fact, "accidental exposure" is actually the term used in that document. I think we need to remember that there are actual humans judging the validity of ARs, with an ability (presumably and hopefully) to apply a bit of commonsense and critical thinking to what has been reported. And that they also have access to a pretty full record of what went down there.

[Kathlen Onyx]

3 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

So basically, G land is the only place where kid avis can reasonably expect to be safe from nudity. 

Yes

[Rolig Loon]

23 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

No, because no matter what, it is YOUR behaviour and actions count, not what someone else does.
If they stand near me naked (if I was in a child avatar), it is them that is the weirdo, not me. Most people who would do that are either trolls or weirdos anyway, you could just AR them for harassment (after blocking and ignoring or de-rendering them).

YOU don't  have to worry.

I'm sure that's true, and that Governance is smart enough to be able to sort out accidental from deliberate incidents, and to apply nothing worse than a warning if the case is ambiguous.  I can imagine plenty of hypothetical situations when a nude adult and a child avatar might accidentally be in the same place.

For example, I like to explore underwater places as a mermaid. I've done it all over the grid, especially in Bellisseria, where there's some cool stuff to find. My mermaid is topless. (I don't think scratchy seashells are a realistic expectation. They look dorky.)  If I swim into a grotto where some child av is playing innocently, then, we'll both say "OOops!" and feel a bit awkward. Theoretically, anyone could submit an AR on both of us at that point.  If they did -- even if the AR was filed by one of us -- I am very confident that Governance would throw the case in the dumpster.

Frankly, though, I think what would actually happen is that one of us would simply swim away and forget it.  I am confident that most people are not trying to get each other in trouble and that most people are rational enough to see that in a situation like that, there's no sexual intent.  Someone will always avoid the appearance of impropriety by just leaving.

Edited May 5 by Rolig Loon
typos. as always.

[Wincil]

It feels like people are trying to repeat themselves no point trying to reason with them.

Edited May 5 by Wincil

[Kathlen Onyx]

6 minutes ago, Angelina Sinclair said:

I realized something today. LL will need to provide us with linden home options on differently rated sims.

You can easily have neighbors with child avas, all while you re-enact your worst 50 Shades impression in your RedRoom.

Why? I'm allowed to do that. Unless the avi is ON my property then it won't affect them at all. I have my settings so you can't see or hear other avi's. Even if they cam in they won't see anything going on.

Edited May 5 by Kathlen Onyx

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Ineffable Mote said:

Nobody likes to read, and I realize comprehension isn't everyone's strong point, but otoh people love to conveniently play dumb, too. Given this thread being what it is, it's hard to give benefit of the doubt.

They're playing?

[Codex Alpha]

12 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

What if the adult avatar says, "I was dressed, but my clothes hadn't rezzed yet" or "Sorry. Clothing malfunction. I was trying to change into a bathing suit." ?

Do you really need an answer? Don't play dumb with me. I know you already know the answer. Now I sense a dog pile of nonsense coming on. I think much better of you to even ask such a thing.