Tipping Etiquette

[Perrie Juran]

I do enjoy many activities in Second Life. One that is very central to my Second life is music.

First there are live performers. It is amazing the quality of some of the musicians who perform in Second Life. There is a lot of talent on the Grid.

Next there are live DJ's. There are actually a few of them in Second Life who do actually know something about music and actually know how to put together a music set. I enjoy spending time at some clubs with friends while listening to the music.

Which brings me to my question.

I do tip the musicians and DJ's generously. I also tip the Venues. It is a pretty well known fact that most clubs are money pits, that the odds of making a profit much less breaking even is pretty slim. So I support them also.

But next are the hosts and hostesses. And I really wonder why I am tipping them. What is it that they are adding to my Second Life. You arrive at a venue and they may greet you if they aren't all absorbed in IM'ing with their friends. And then there is all the gesturebating they do saying how wonderful the musician or DJ is and also begging exhorting people to tip the Venue. So at the risk of upsetting some hosts or hostesses I ask why I should I tip them?

[Garnet Psaltery]

I tip people who entertain me, or who pay for a nice venue, or who look after me.  If I encounter the sort of host you describe then they don't get a tip, and I don't feel at all guilty about it.  Neither should you.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Garnet Psaltery
Typo.

[Arielle Popstar]

17 minutes ago, Perrie Juran said:

But next are the hosts and hostesses. And I really wonder why I am tipping them. What is it that they are adding to my Second Life. You arrive at a venue and they may greet you if they aren't all absorbed in IM'ing with their friends. And then there is all the gesturebating they do saying how wonderful the musician or DJ is and also begging exhorting people to tip the Venue. So at the risk of upsetting some hosts or hostesses I ask why I should I tip them?

I don't usually tip them but the other night I did tip one who was hosting a friend's dj event. I in fact did not tip the DJ but focused instead on the hostess because she was friendly without gesturebating and tried including the attendees in her chatter. It was well done and I'll be more likely to attend and stay longer at the next one she does. It is nice when there is local chatter going on. The DJ (a friend) actually thanked me in private for tipping the host as I guess not many usually do even when it is hosted well.

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

I tip if they are friendly and can keep local chat going

[Rat Luv]

34 minutes ago, Perrie Juran said:

What is it that they are adding to my Second Life. You arrive at a venue and they may greet you if they aren't all absorbed in IM'ing with their friends. And then there is all the gesturebating they do saying how wonderful the musician or DJ is and also begging exhorting people to tip the Venue. So at the risk of upsetting some hosts or hostesses I ask why I should I tip them?

Ex-host here 🤬

Just kidding! 🙂 It's up to you...but based on what you've said about hosts, I would say check out some better clubs! Also, some of the big club owners tell the hosts specifically to mention venue tips, so they're just following orders, really...I've been to clubs when I was skint and didn't tip at all...

The only etiquette I would follow is to tip any DJ if you request a tune and they play it 👍

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Rat Luv

[Silent Mistwalker]

37 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I tip if they are friendly and can keep local chat going

without gesturebating.

[Stephanie Misfit]

1 hour ago, Perrie Juran said:

So at the risk of upsetting some hosts or hostesses I ask why I should I tip them?

I never have, not once. I have at times been very generous in my tips to musicians, DJs, and venues but I can't say I have ever tipped a host and only really notice them if they are spamming local to the point it makes me want to leave. I have noticed the "dancers" in cages expecting tips at some venues though. Now that's the bottom of the SL employment food chain, right there. Like I am going to tip someone for doing something that everyone else around them is doing for free.

[Orwar]

   There isn't any rigid etiquette standards for tipping in SL, and as a non-American I just tend to find the tipping expectations awkward. We have a very different tipping culture over here, as well as laws that say you have to pay your workers (i.e. the 'tip' is included in the price of the service) - in many situations it can almost be rude to tip, as it would imply you think the place is cheap (in a restaurant you may round off the bill, or maybe up it a little bit if you 'caused trouble' by getting your order wrong, but I've seen more pubs with collection jars for non-profit organisations where you can get rid of spare change, than actual tip jars).

   Of course, in SL DJs and hosts don't usually get paid by the venue, so if I do have a positive experience with one or the other I may tip them. But if a DJ is less interesting than Spotify in radio mode, and if all the host does is gesturbate and beg, I probably won't feel inclined to tip.

   Live music events, classes, or suchlike I just go with my gut feeling - if I enjoy it I may tip. If I don't, I won't. Besides, not everyone has the L$ to tip everyone and everything.

   When I've hosted I never 'expected' to be tipped, I periodically do it for a DJ that is a friend because we get to hang out and play music we both enjoy, heck it doesn't matter if the club is otherwise silent as a grave as we can make good conversation between just the two of us - but people usually join in when we do. Greeting people, answering questions, and making a few announcements isn't a whole lot of extra effort. I don't look at it as 'work', I don't 'need' the L$, and if someone has a good time and wants to make a pecuniary gesture of appreciation it's just a little bonus. I have worked with DJs I didn't know very well, who barely said a word unless someone threw a tip at them, and it was just boring, especially if the previous set had put the patrons to sleep. Not signing up for that again!

[Arielle Popstar]

Though I have never given it much thought, in some ways it seems it would be only somewhat appropriate for a DJ to share part of their tips with a host. I believe that in some RL venues the tips are shared between the servers who get the tips and the support staff behind them who are not seen so much by the patrons.

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Though I have never given it much thought, in some ways it seems it would be only somewhat appropriate for a DJ to share part of their tips with a host. I believe that in some RL venues the tips are shared between the servers who get the tips and the support staff behind them who are not seen so much by the patrons.

At the restaurant my son manages, the wait staff and bus boys share tips.

I rarely tip hosts.  I do tip the DJ unless their minions, who aren't regulars at the club, are the ones spamming local repeatedly. 

[Persephone Emerald]

In RL, tipping is expected in the US for waiters, etc. because they don't get paid much. In SL they may not get paid at all, so you should tip them something if you can.

If you request a song from the DJ, you should absolutely tip them. If you like the work the host is doing, you should tip them too. Their job is to greet people, keep the chat going, remind people to tip the DJ and venue (they're required to do this), tell people where the dance balls are, and take care of any problems such as griefers or people not being properly dressed.

How much to tip depends on what you can afford and how much of their time you use with requests. $L 100 is a good tip. $L 50 is small, but not bad. 

When I attend a class, I generally tip the teacher $L 100 or more.

[Ted McGregor]

2 hours ago, Perrie Juran said:

So at the risk of upsetting some hosts or hostesses I ask why I should I tip them?

I have this gesture I use frequently :

Wilhiam Hydraconis (ted.mcgregor) has paid you L$1,000,000.00

 

Together with the caching sound you usually get when buying Lindens, you will them upset them somewhat more  .. but they sound sooooo happy at first until I tell them to actually check their balance I cannot stop it. 

I can send you a copy.

[Ted McGregor]

2 hours ago, Perrie Juran said:

But next are the hosts and hostesses. And I really wonder why I am tipping them. What is it that they are adding to my Second Life. You arrive at a venue and they may greet you if they aren't all absorbed in IM'ing with their friends. And then there is all the gesturebating they do saying how wonderful the musician or DJ is and also begging exhorting people to tip the Venue. So at the risk of upsetting some hosts or hostesses I ask why I should I tip them?

Seriously this time ... That of course totally depends on the host(ess) .. there are hosts and hostesses that just put enough effort in making the crowd feel welcome while the DJ focuses on the music selection .. not all DJ's are as forthcoming and need a hostess to run a thread or theme throughout the show.  It needs their focus and I seen many put as much effort into the set as the DJs or artist themselves. I tip at an equal rate .. If I hear the DJ play a song I like and I tip the DJ 100 Linden and I like the hosting too,  the host(ess) receives just as much. 
 

If I don't like the hosting or find it's quality way below or effortless , I tip half of the DJ rate.

There have been hosts that bad , I tipped not a thing throughout the whole gig of the DJ.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Ted McGregor

[Perrie Juran]

17 minutes ago, Ted McGregor said:

I can send you a copy

Yes Please and Thank You.

[Ted McGregor]

1 minute ago, Perrie Juran said:

Yes Please and Thank You.

[18:17:51] Second Life: Inventory item 'linden pay' offered
[18:17:51] Perrie Juran: User not online - inventory has been saved.

[Perrie Juran]

32 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Though I have never given it much thought, in some ways it seems it would be only somewhat appropriate for a DJ to share part of their tips with a host.

That is where my thinking leans. And actually I do know many Musicians and DJ's who do tip their hosts and hostesses.

[Love Zhaoying]

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I do generally tip DJs (except one close friend, for whom I usually buy clothes instead. Trust me, it's better this way). And I'll usually tip the venue too. My standard tip is L$200. I am very rarely at places that use hostesses/hosts, but when I am, I will tip them the same if they are actually contributing anything to the event.

What has been bankrupting me a little is gallery openings, where I tip the DJ, the venue, and generally also buy at least one picture. An opening will usually set me back between L$700 and L$2000, depending on the price of the pics. And I usually go to about two or three of these a week.

[SlammedSam]

I usually tip host/hostess as well, as well as DJ and venue. In fact, a DJ friend just did a set, and a close friend of ours is her host. I generally tip them both equal.

[belindacarson]

I'll happily tip a place I like going to, or a lively DJ.

 

But as soon as you hear from the hosts "show some l$ love" then nah.  Just, nah.

[Anna Nova]

I am not American, and don't understand tipping.  I understand 'fly-tipping'  which is dumping your rubbish (Amer: garbage) on someones front-lawn...

My other issue is that I go to some clubs for the chat, and keep the sound on mute as I can't stand most of what everyone else calls music.

But sometimes, if the chat is good, I put a few L$100s in the venue tip box.  Then, sometimes, I get this effusive 'thank you' in chat, which I hate!

Like I say: I am not American, and don't understand tipping.....

[Ajay McDowwll]

I both DJ and host at different venues on the grid.  Others have covered tipping the DJ and live artist, so I'm going to focus on the hosting perspective for this response.

For hosting, the hosts are often required to create the event listing at secondlife.com (which costs money if they're not listing a repeating event as a Premium Plus member).  They're required to be at the venue generally 15 minutes ahead of time, minimum, send out inworld event announcements (generally once per hour), greet everyone entering the club, remind folks where the DJ/ live artist's tipjar is located, mention the venue tipjar and its location, offer group invites/ add people to the group manually, and keep conversation flowing in local.

When hosts are reminding folks to tip the DJ or live artist, we're required to do this by the venue.  How many times we point out the tipjars is also regulated by the venue.  This is why at one of my hosting gigs I remind folks 3x/ hour to tip the live artist and 1x/ hour to tip the club, whereas at another venue I remind once an hour for the DJ and once every two hours for the club.  I'm far more comfortable with the latter frequency; if it weren't for the live artist component in the former, I'd push back pretty heavily with venue ownership.

If we don't do this, we don't get work. 

I am aware that there are clubs on the grid where hosts are forbidden to request tips for anyone or anything, on the basis that people know what tipjars are and they know how to shove money into them.  I wish more venues followed this model. 

Refusing to tip on the basis of a host saying something about "linden love" (a phrase I've uttered maybe once in my hosting career -- I'll usually say about anything but those words, because they give me a nasty shiver up my spine) or any reminder they issue about tipping is absolutely your right, and it's also refusing to tip someone because they're literally doing their job.  A better move in my eyes would be to mention to the venue owner that a few less reminders to tip may go further than an endless barrage.  You might be surprised how many hosts agree with that assessment.

As for hosts who don't even greet, who are basically AFKing their host shift, churning out boilerplate gestures if they have text to local at all, and are only chatting with friends?  They're not doing their jobs.  I usually tip hosts pretty generously as well as DJs and live artists; my standard is 200 lindens.  I will go up to 500 lindens for DJs and as high as 500-1000 lindens for live artists, depending on how tight my SL budget is at any given moment.  Personally, most of my tips are in turn tipped out to others.

All that said, if a host is "working" and the most that I see are desultory greetings (if that), and never see text to local from them again?  Nope.  No tip.  Your mere existence does not entitle you to my precious lindens.

To draw that out further, no one is entitled to your lindens other than you.  Period.  However, if the person is providing a service that enhances an event, SL is a tipping economy and tipping is absolutely appropriate. 

Most of us who host are quite aware there are some people who will never tip us. I am friends with some of these people!  For me, it's not a big deal.  I'm aware of the bias, and I'm still going to do my job, send announcements, follow club procedures, and chat with anyone who feels like chatting back regardless of whether or not they wish to tip me.

[Orwar]

7 minutes ago, Ajay McDowwll said:

When hosts are reminding folks to tip the DJ or live artist, we're required to do this by the venue. 

   It absolutely is on the venue's rules for their staff, when I was hosting for my friend we'd quite often do new venues, and a fair few of them just chucked me a folder full of notecards with their expectations and rules and even prepared gestures I was expected to use. One of them was so extreme as to supply a schedule for which gesture you should use, with a 10 minute interval, throughout the set. Of course, throughout all that obscene abundance of documentation to go through, they didn't once mention that they snatched a beefy portion of your tips. Suffice to say it was a one-time gig.

   But the patrons don't necessarily know what a host's work requirements are, they may love what the DJ is doing and how the venue looks but just find the host annoying. And I don't think that it should be expected of them to know - they're there to listen to music, meet people, and enjoy themselves; it's up to the venue's owners and managers to create the best possible conditions for that to happen. Demanding your staff to be annoying is a failure on their part, and that is something that shouldn't be supported - of course, there's a never-ending supply of people desperate enough for some virtual pocket money that they'll put up with it and semi-AFK their way through it and hope someone feels compelled to 'show them some linden loving' (*shudders*), and if that's the kind of staff a venue wants, or settles for, then .. We can only hope the venue fails, and someone more empathetic starts a better enterprise, I guess. 

   Of course that assumes that people would be doing something collectively and rationally, so maybe just about in time for Hell to freeze over. 

   Briefly considers the prospect of founding a Virtual Host Staff Union, gets temporarily distracted by how to name it to create a naughty abbreviation, and decides it's too much effort.

   .. Virtual Union of Labourers for Venues & Attractions?

[Ajay McDowwll]

4 minutes ago, Orwar said:

    .. Virtual Union of Labourers for Venues & Attractions?

Dangit Orwar, you owe me a keyboard LOL

[Love Zhaoying]

40 minutes ago, Orwar said:

 .. Virtual Union of Labourers for Venues & Attractions?

Is this an acronym that is part of "voulez vous coucher avec moi"?