Senra Body SDK Applications Now Open

[Sammy Huntsman]

38 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I wonder if these avatars would be able to wear the fitmesh sizes?

Like do you mean the small medium and large meshes? 

[Gabriele Graves]

34 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Like do you mean the small medium and large meshes? 

No, they were an early form of rigged meshes that are different to the ones we have today.  TBH back in the day we used to called them "dont-fitmesh" anyways.

[Fionalein]

6 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

No, they were an early form of rigged meshes that are different to the ones we have today.  TBH back in the day we used to called them "dont-fitmesh" anyways.

not technically correct - in theory 99% of mesh body specific outfits technically qualify as "fitmesh" as do the mesh bodies themselves. So yes, of course: NUX can wear fitmesh - NUX rigged fitmesh that is.

[Rachelle Kiyori]

7 hours ago, Patch Linden said:

I've seen quite a bit of chatter coming back from over the weekend regarding 3.5 and some also regarding 3.6.   Importantly these are optional.   Our intent is to not normally require inspection, review and auditing of content.

Be that as it may, the fact is that it is still written into a contract. Legal may be trying to cover your bums but they're doing so at the cost of creators' rights, in a way that I don't think has been ever done before in SL.

7 hours ago, Patch Linden said:

I've said there is a large piece of context or part of the overall puzzle to this everyone is missing because we simply haven't released that information yet, it will be coming out very soon.

"You'll know more soon" is a very weird way to calm people's concerns. I'm not trying to say you're wrong here - but this ultimately does not address the overarching issues.

[Sasy Scarborough]

5 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

The Girl Next Door and Boy Next Door avatars were promoted as being created by Adam and Eve. This probably helped that store's visibility to new users years ago. They're barely visible on the mesh body and clothing market now though.

Sachi has pretty much left Second Life due to RL attention needs. But as my store is on that region I can honestly say that it did/does bring new residents to her store on the daily.

I look forward to the content that will be created for Senra because whether a customer starts out with Senra and moves on to another mesh body, it has been made clear that you can of course include Senra with other products, so Senra would just be something people include with the bodies they already make for, so the transition would be painless for them. The only "only Senra" mentioned was if you used their unpacker that you would pack them with Senra only, it did not say that that unpacker could not be one of multiple in your product, or that you could not use your own unpacker. 

So all creators to have some items that include Senra would be beneficial to them as being a store a new resident may come to as the start of their fashionable journey.

[Hunny Bunny]

4 minutes ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

I see no reason for this piecemeal presentation

The only reason was the premature release into everyone's library folder.

[Gabriele Graves]

1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

not technically correct - in theory 99% of mesh body specific outfits technically qualify as "fitmesh" as do the mesh bodies themselves. So yes, of course: NUX can wear fitmesh - NUX rigged fitmesh that is.

I cannot comment on the technicality but I have items that are marked as fitmesh and are not rigged to any particular mesh body (maybe to system body?) and often come alongside Maitreya and Slink versions but are still rigged.  That's what I took the original inquiry to be asking about.  You can wear them on NUX Jamie but they do suffer from the issues I described in my previous post.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Gabriele Graves

[Hunny Bunny]

I fail to understand why anyone would entertain reverting to standard-size rigged mesh when we have body-specific rigged mesh. That was primarily used before rigged mesh bodies which Senra avatars are.

[Gabriele Graves]

4 minutes ago, Hunny Bunny said:

I fail to understand why anyone would entertain reverting to standard-size rigged mesh when we have body-specific rigged mesh. That was primarily used before rigged mesh bodies which Senra avatars are.

They wouldn't.  However during the leak some of us took a look see to find out what existing stuff might work because the NUX clothes are...well I don't want to raise the ire of anyone so I'll be kind and say it's as if they were designed so you could spot a newbie from across the room.

Obviously mesh clothes for other mesh bodies weren't going to fit and so playing with standard sized static mesh and "fitmesh" was all that was available other than using just BoM.

So I did it just to see how normal I could make Jamie.

I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to seriously use fitmesh or standard sizes with NUX otherwise.

[Kathlen Onyx]

32 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I cannot comment on the technicality but I have items that are marked as fitmesh and are not rigged to any particular mesh body (maybe to system body?) and often come alongside Maitreya and Slink versions but are still rigged.  That's what I took the original inquiry to be asking about.  You can wear them on NUX Jamie but they do suffer from the issues I described in my previous post.

Right that is what I was asking. 

9 minutes ago, Hunny Bunny said:

I fail to understand why anyone would entertain reverting to standard-size rigged mesh when we have body-specific rigged mesh. That was primarily used before rigged mesh bodies which Senra avatars are.

There is quite a bit of the standard size S,M,L,XL clothes out on the marketplace.  It would give them more options. It was just a thought. Probably not the best solution. It just popped in my head. LOL

[Hunny Bunny]

11 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

There is quite a bit of the standard size S,M,L,XL clothes out on the marketplace.  It would give them more options.

While I understand that would give them more options it's probably not the best solution. As they grow out of the Senra avatar and into other options it would probably be best if they stick to looking for body-specific clothing which I think is LL's purpose of the Senra branding. 

[AmeliaJ08]

14 hours ago, Patch Linden said:

Sorry for the delay in response!  

I've seen quite a bit of chatter coming back from over the weekend regarding 3.5 and some also regarding 3.6.   Importantly these are optional.   Our intent is to not normally require inspection, review and auditing of content.   What we are setting up for, and as I've mentioned previously are larger more beneficial products and programs to come.   I've said there is a large piece of context or part of the overall puzzle to this everyone is missing because we simply haven't released that information yet, it will be coming out very soon.   I want to remind again, that this entire project is aimed specifically at new users coming to Second Life.   I have alluded to a new way for users to engage with creating avatars.   We may see a future where we could allow Resident content creators to have content within a tool that new users will have access to, along with being included in Linden shopping, on-boarding or event initiatives.

Well that is something big, the people who have mentioned character-creation type stuff for SL like you get in some games were right... maybe?

 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 7/30/2023 at 7:56 AM, AmeliaJ08 said:

I'm as disappointed as most seem to be here but I think we're experiencing the effect of crossed wires.

I feel we the users want this body to be something for everyone, maybe not a top-end mesh body but something that was usable and maybe even worth creating for. A body that was universal and open, free for everyone to experiment with without the barriers that other widely used bodies have introduced as far as creation. A body that looks good enough to actually wear something you may create for it.

I feel LL probably never looked at it that way. They want something roughly on-par with other mesh bodies but certainly not open for us plebs to be messing around with and creating amateurish content for. They want a nice clean library of Senra content made by people with a proven track record of quality that will make noobies feel like they've spent money on content produced by a professional. New User Experience, I think it's likely that this will include some sort of Senra content mall or similar from the hints we've been getting.

If we look at wider LL strategy there's clearly an effort to tidy up Second Life, dampen and restrict the users unwavering ability to make a mess and treat the place like a giant lego kit: Bellisseria. Clean, uncluttered, high quality and created with a pretty rigid creative vision and with minimal allowance for the users to change it. Maybe Senra follows a similar philosophy?

I get their point but I think maybe the rest of our expectations should have been dampened a long time ago, people were anticipating this body and are probably feeling quite let down by realizing you're still not going to be allowed to play with content creation unless you're given special blessing.

 

(all of this ignores the licensing issues that have been raised of course, just focusing on what I think is going on as far as the barrier of entry)

 

You've made a good point -- the Lindens have always been stretched between their two values of wanting to have creative freedom and wanting SL to look good so they can sell it. 

Ultimately, it's users who demanded Bellisseria, and got it. Same with these mesh bodies. The other platforms were just more pragmatic about this all along.

[Patch Linden]

Hey folks, at this point I've enabled post moderation.  This post is for the release of the SDK for the Senra bodies.  We'll use this post to have discussion around or answer any questions about the SDK.  Anything else is off topic and should be carried out elsewhere and will be expected to follow the forum and topic posting guidelines.  

[Patch Linden]

9 hours ago, Rachelle Kiyori said:

Be that as it may, the fact is that it is still written into a contract. Legal may be trying to cover your bums but they're doing so at the cost of creators' rights, in a way that I don't think has been ever done before in SL.

"You'll know more soon" is a very weird way to calm people's concerns. I'm not trying to say you're wrong here - but this ultimately does not address the overarching issues.

My answer posted earlier was approved by our general counsel.  Fact of the matter is, the clauses are written as "if requested" which is to say that we may or may not at some point request a review, and we've committed that only being in support of products or programs that would necessitate it as I've outlined.  The creator community demanded we release the SDK prior to launch of the project, here it is and now you have a divide in the information that it has caused.  Sorry I can't disclose more, but I'm very excited about what is going to be released in support of the project.   
 

[Patch Linden]

14 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

@Patch Linden,

Will we still have access to Dog-bag Lady (Bitsy) and the other starter avatars of that group in our Library?

While off topic, there's no plans in place currently to remove any of the old content.

[Love Zhaoying]

Will users get automatic updates if the SDK itself changes?

[Patch Linden]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Will users get automatic updates if the SDK itself changes?

Yes, we'll use the automatic update features within CasperVend for sending them out.

[Extrude Ragu]

From what I understand the license is there primarily to ensure the quality and consistency of the new user experience.

Do we anticipate that there will come a point where the kit will be made available to the general public without license? Or is it the desire to keep Senra under this license indefinitely?

If the latter case is true - Is perhaps the reason the license will remain indefinite because of things like the marketplace? Perhaps therefor a discussion to be had would be some sort of 'linden stamp of quality' seal for products on the MP, to differentiate LL curated products from those made by the general populace which do not adhere to the same set of standards LL want new users to experience.

[Theresa Tennyson]

Will UV maps be available without going through the SDK process for those strictly interested in working with texture-based projects?

[Patch Linden]

1 hour ago, Extrude Ragu said:

From what I understand the license is there primarily to ensure the quality and consistency of the new user experience.

Do we anticipate that there will come a point where the kit will be made available to the general public without license? Or is it the desire to keep Senra under this license indefinitely?

If the latter case is true - Is perhaps the reason the license will remain indefinite because of things like the marketplace? Perhaps therefor a discussion to be had would be some sort of 'linden stamp of quality' seal for products on the MP, to differentiate LL curated products from those made by the general populace which do not adhere to the same set of standards LL want new users to experience.

Yes and correct on the latter.  The cases for this are numerous and could include elevating content created and featured on the MP or other programs we will pursue in the future. 

[Patch Linden]

1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Will UV maps be available without going through the SDK process for those strictly interested in working with texture-based projects?

Initially the UV maps will not be available outside of the SDK.  They are included in the kit along with a UV OBJ file.   We will consider releasing a textures only kit in the future.   For the most part, the body follows SL UV with some minor exceptions such as the toes, along with the head being a further departure from the normal SL UV's.

[Jenna Huntsman]

I notice that the blog post announcing the Senra avatars refers to them as "BETA" - How long is the beta period, and how do we give feedback on the bodies? Are the bodies locked in as they are, or would it be an iterative beta?

(Link to post:

 )

[Cackle Amore]

First question,
Why does the application require a inworld store?
Some of us only exist on the marketplace

Second question
With the mention of it being Beta, would that mean there's some chance for us to help improve the body and devkit?

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Cackle Amore

[Sammy Huntsman]

54 minutes ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

I notice that the blog post announcing the Senra avatars refers to them as "BETA" - How long is the beta period, and how do we give feedback on the bodies? Are the bodies locked in as they are, or would it be an iterative beta?

(Link to post:

 )

Until they have worked out all the kinks. That and they have other things in the works for Senra as a whole. So it will be in a Beta phase until everything that they have planned out for Senra rolled out.