Senra Body SDK Applications Now Open

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

They just want the items you uploaded to SL. They don't want the blender and photoshop files. So if you make a makeup and upload it. They want to see the folder from SL. So they can see if it meets their standards of how they asked you to put the folder together. 

um ...

Quote

3.5 Inspection and Review. Upon completion of each Avatar Item, Licensee shall submit such Avatar Item to Linden Lab (in such form and format as Linden Lab may require) for review and approval upon Linden Lab’s request. Licensee shall fully cooperate with Linden Lab in the course of such review and approval, providing to Linden Lab such information and assistance as Linden Lab deems desirable.

... they can totally demand source files.

[Sammy Huntsman]

50 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

um ...

... they can totally demand source files.

Um it says avatar item. So they cannot demand your psds daes or colladas. They can only ask for the folder in your inventory. Again it says avatar item. 

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Um it says avatar item. So they cannot demand your psds daes or colladas. They can only ask for the folder in your inventory. Again it says avatar item. 

Then why would they need to specify or even ask.

Files "in SL" are only in one format, and they have them, they can just grab them right off the asset servers. LL do not need special permission to look in your inventory 😂

They are asking for files they don't already have.

Source files.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

Then why would they need to specify or even ask.

Files "in SL" are only in one format, and they have them, they can just grab them right off the asset servers. LL do not need special permission to look in your inventory 😂

They are asking for files they don't already have.

Source files.

No they are not. Your reading comprehension is abysmal. It says avatar item. Meaning items in your inventory. 

[Love Zhaoying]

Sounds like it's going to be great! The Forum lack of approval counterintuitively predicts success. I hope we get to place bets on this.

[Love Zhaoying]

6 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

What happens if they ask for source files.

Who gets to see your secret sauce .. a Linden .. a Mole (as in .. another resident, likely with a store, operating as a contractor under a pseudonym).

What happens if they disprove of your work.

What happens when your customers get in touch asking why their foolish newbie purchases don't work with <brand> body, are you going to explain how that works or ghost them?

Are these all actual questions, or rhetorical?

What happens if all the issues you raise are addressed?

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Sounds like it's going to be great! The Forum lack of approval counterintuitively predicts success. I hope we get to place bets on this.

I am not saying people can't be mad. But I do think the Lindens need to make another post, to really clear this out. As we can see people are already mad and confused. Which is creating conspiracy theories around the body and it's dev kit. I would love to see LL create anothet post to better explain it all 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I am not saying people can't be mad. But I do think the Lindens need to make another post, to really clear this out. As we can see people are already mad and confused. Which is creating conspiracy theories around the body and it's dev kit. I would love to see LL create anothet post to better explain it all 

Some people are posting about issues with the body they don't like, which is technically off-topic for a devkit announcement. I am surprised Patch's announcement wasn't a "closed post", anticipating this.

ETA: Some people are always mad and confused. IJS.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Some people are posting about issues with the body they don't like, which is technically off-topic for a devkit announcement. I am surprised Patch's announcement wasn't a "closed post", anticipating this.

I get that. And all that should be addressed in a more detailed post. I mean they usually do address that. But with all these off topic posts and the doom and gloom from one specific user. It really doesnt help with the confusion and anger. I think it is just best for all of us, to just wait until they address this in full. Then all may be revealed. 

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

No they are not. Your reading comprehension is abysmal. It says avatar item. Meaning items in your inventory. 

Linden Lab do not need to ask you send them things in a specific format if you have uploaded it. There is no "form or format" anymore.

If you keep reading it then goes on say. "providing to Linden Lab such information and assistance as Linden Lab deems desirable"

They could ask you for literally anything under the sun without limitation. That is literally what that means.

[Rachelle Kiyori]

Coffee is right. LL does not need your permission to root around in your inventory; they never have. If they wanted what was there they'd get it without you even knowing about it. And let me ask you this: why would they suddenly be asking your permission to do it in a TOS over a body kit when they've been doing it to catch copyright violators for over 20 years already?

No - what they are asking for goes way beyond what they can already achieve by technical means. And that means stuff like your .blend files.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Rachelle Kiyori

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Rachelle Kiyori said:

what they are asking for goes way beyond what they can already achieve by technical means

Lets not even look at 3.6

Quote

3.6 Audit. Licensee hereby agrees to keep reasonable, written records in the English language regarding this Agreement, Licensee’s use of the SDK Materials, and the creation and status of all Avatar Items (“Records”). During the Term and for one (1) year thereafter, Linden Lab shall have the right to obtain true and correct copies of all such Records, and to audit such Records (either by itself, or through a reputable third-party accounting firm) to confirm Licensee’s performance of and compliance with the terms of this Agreement.

That could easily be a substantial obligation... should probably have a lawyer look over this before you agree to anything.

Who will likely say "to be clear .. this is so you can make pretend clothing that sells for pennies, for an intentionally disposable avatar.. you're going to need to sell hundreds to settle your account here"

 

[Jenna Huntsman]

3 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Um it says avatar item. So they cannot demand your psds daes or colladas. They can only ask for the folder in your inventory. Again it says avatar item. 

If that was true, then the choice of words is truly abysmal.

If they only wanted a copy of the in-world finished item, using wording like "Finished in-world asset" would be much better, as it excludes the possibility of needing the source files outside of SL.

[Rachelle Kiyori]

3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Some people are posting about issues with the body they don't like, which is technically off-topic for a devkit announcement. I am surprised Patch's announcement wasn't a "closed post", anticipating this.

The original Ruth was pretty much "open". The license was restrictive enough to protect LL's intellectual property, requiring credit where credit is due and other restrictions, but it was nothing like what they are doing with Senra now.

I am not speaking on behalf of anyone - I am just saying, for my own self - I would be much happier if Senra was run much the same way Ruth is now. Make the devkit freely available, make it easy, open, and accessible to create content for it.

Do they have the right to restrict its export to OpenSim? Of course they do. They can always ask nicely. Are the current restrictions as they are right now going to prevent that from happening anyway whether they allow it or not? Have you even been on an OpenSim grid? Of course that won't stop it, unfortunately - there's always people who are going to do whatever you don't want no matter how nicely you ask or how forceful you try to be to stop it.

I just think that the terms as they are now sets a bad precedent with an unwritten message that pretty much everyone who isn't a well-established creator can see and have received quite painfully clearly: if you aren't good enough for "our" content standards, don't bother applying. If Linden Lab is the kind of company they are trying to claim they are, with the idea of openness and respect towards creators, this is clearly not the message they want people getting. The total and absolute dead radio silence around the concerns about the licensing make this way way worse.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Rachelle Kiyori

[AmeliaJ08]

Wait, why is it asking me for my existing SL brand/store etc?

This is a default avi, every single user should have access to the dev kit...

This isn't how to do it LL. People want a chance to experiment, maybe even develop a new skill.

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by AmeliaJ08

[Love Zhaoying]

Makes you wonder if LL will only give the devkit to "brands", or a positive possibility: LL is "registering" everyone who gets the "devkit" so any interaction, feedback, issues, etc. can be tracked by user (like JIRA). 

[Bloodsong Termagant]

@Patch Linden  who do i contact with regards to questions for clarification of the license agreement?

specifically:

 

Section 4.3 Restrictions
In order to protect Linden Lab’s trade secrets and other rights in the SDK Materials, Licensee agrees not to ...
(b) create derivative works of any of the SDK Materials.

-- does that mean that NO, i cannot A) transform the mesh into a petite,  B) re-uvmap the mesh, and/or C) slice parts of it to make form-fitting clothing?

 

Section 7 Confidential Information
(everything)
  -- how does this apply in regards to helping users with the devkits, ie: in-world or discord SL item development groups (cf: avastar et al)?   are we not allowed to share knowledge we gleaned from working with the senra devkits?

 

 

to everyone, in general... it sounds to me that a lot of the licensing wording might have been requested/required by established big name brands, in order to protect their interests from market flooding of new stuff for the new newbie avatar.

[Persephone Emerald]

3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Makes you wonder if LL will only give the devkit to "brands", or a positive possibility: LL is "registering" everyone who gets the "devkit" so any interaction, feedback, issues, etc. can be tracked by user (like JIRA). 

Maybe they only want creators who make quality clothing and not "sexy" sleezy clothing? If it's a matter of brand affiliation, they might prefer that Blake and Jamie don't dress like cheap hookers.

[Love Zhaoying]

23 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Maybe they only want creators who make quality clothing and not "sexy" sleezy clothing? If it's a matter of brand affiliation, they might prefer that Blake and Jamie don't dress like cheap hookers.

"Expensive Escorts" is ok!

[Gabriele Graves]

24 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Maybe they only want creators who make quality clothing and not "sexy" sleezy clothing? If it's a matter of brand affiliation, they might prefer that Blake and Jamie don't dress like cheap hookers.

There's definitely no "how do I become a pole dancer tutorial" at the Welcome Hub.

[Conifer Dada]

19 hours ago, Galaxy Littlepaws said:

Why do we have to apply for the dev kit?

I assumed it would work similarly to the previous system avatar in regards to creating content.

Having to apply for dev kits is annoying and hinders new creators or people who just want to play around. I like being able to just download something and get started after purchasing/obtaining an avatar.

There was a sort of 'dev kit' for the system avatars - the CMFF templates were essential if you wanted to make skins, tattoos or system clothes in Photoshop or Gimp and you had to obtain the templates, which were a private venture, not done by LL.

[Alwin Alcott]

45 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

There's definitely no "how do I become a pole dancer tutorial" at the Welcome Hub.

While that is a quite normal job in SL, seeing the amount of adult themed jobs in the employment forum, in the section that supposes to be general rated.
They don't have any problem with that, including the pics, cam (=rl porn) remote dildos and voice.

[Gabriele Graves]

Just now, Alwin Alcott said:

While that is a quite normal job in SL, seeing the amount of adult themed jobs in the employment forum, in the section that supposes to be general rated.
They don't have any problem with that, including the pics, cam (=rl porn) remote dildos and voice.

I understand what you are saying.  The Welcome Hub is very clean cut with no hint of the adult side though.  To backup what @Persephone Emerald was saying, they probably want to keep the whole New User Experience very clean cut (classy even?) overall.  It certainly seems like it.

TBH I'm surprised that the Senra avatar skins we've previewed didn't come with underwear baked on.

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Maybe they only want creators who make quality clothing and not "sexy" sleezy clothing? If it's a matter of brand affiliation, they might prefer that Blake and Jamie don't dress like cheap hookers.

Again, we don't know that for sure. I would say that it more has to do with them inspecting how simplistic did you make your folder layout. Especially for new users. 

[Gabriele Graves]

9 minutes ago, Conifer Dada said:

There was a sort of 'dev kit' for the system avatars - the CMFF templates were essential if you wanted to make skins, tattoos or system clothes in Photoshop or Gimp and you had to obtain the templates, which were a private venture, not done by LL.

You could also get hold of the system avatar as a mesh model.  I want to think that was done by LL too rather than someone else taking it upon themselves to release it but I cannot honestly say.