Senra Body SDK Applications Now Open

[Conifer Dada]

I could understand that LL might wish to limit the dev kits to established creators to begin with, especially if their creations are to be linked with the Senra brand. But once the NUX avatars are well established, I think the kits should be made freely available to all.

Edited July 29 by Conifer Dada

[Sammy Huntsman]

7 minutes ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

I have noticed that for any LL event where creators are invited to apply to join the event, that it is always well known brands that get accepted.  In 17 years I have applied several times and never been accepted, despite the fact that my work is NOT junk or cheap looking, I am just not an aggressive marketer.  LL has it's  favourites and they will always get first dibs on anything.  

I would say that part is very BS. I have seen so many creators I have never heard of at Shop and hop, heck I even helped close friends to get in. By giving them the app. They got in, and they are smaller creators. 

[Tazzie Tuque]

32 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I would say that part is very BS. I have seen so many creators I have never heard of at Shop and hop, heck I even helped close friends to get in. By giving them the app. They got in, and they are smaller creators

It seems your experience and mine are very different.  That's all.  Doesn't mean mine is BS.

[Galaxy Littlepaws]

1 hour ago, Conifer Dada said:

There was a sort of 'dev kit' for the system avatars - the CMFF templates were essential if you wanted to make skins, tattoos or system clothes in Photoshop or Gimp and you had to obtain the templates, which were a private venture, not done by LL.

The key here thing in what I'm complaining about is "apply for the devkit".  And the application wants so many things like a slurl to an in-world store. You were free to download the UVs and the like from any website that had them hosted, you didn't need to jump through hoops.

A newbie should be free to create things for the avatar they are given when they rezz in for the first time. That's what I've always loved about SL, the freedom to be and do what you like, and to create things as long as you had the skill and determination. The extremely low barrier of entry for creation and customization. This will just push newbies into thinking they have to spend a lot of money to even make basic things. How are they going to have an in-world store? What will they even fill it with, much less anything LL may be looking for to judge if they're worthy of a devkit?

I'm confused about why we need to apply in the first place. I'm confused about what LL is even looking for exactly. Would I be able to get a devkit if I have 0 items for any human avatars in my store? I've always avoided making things for humans because nearly all of them have these requirements. I just wanted to get started with this new avatar, and make stuff for the newbies so they wouldn't have to spend so much to look nice.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Galaxy Littlepaws said:

The key here thing in what I'm complaining about is "apply for the devkit".  And the application wants so many things like a slurl to an in-world store. You were free to download the UVs and the like from any website that had them hosted, you didn't need to jump through hoops.

Well all other Mesh Bodies do that, they expect an inworld store or even an MP. I don't think that is any different. 

 

1 minute ago, Galaxy Littlepaws said:

A newbie should be free to create things for the avatar they are given when they rezz in for the first time. That's what I've always loved about SL, the freedom to be and do what you like, and to create things as long as you had the skill and determination. The extremely low barrier of entry for creation and customization. This will just push newbies into thinking they have to spend a lot of money to even make basic things. How are they going to have an in-world store? What will they even fill it with, much less anything LL may be looking for to judge if they're worthy of a devkit?

Yes if it had an open source license. That is not the case. Ruth was open-source, so you were free to grab the dev kit.

 

[Fionalein]

The ONLY way I see this working without users getting super angry for investing into NUX outfits is if creators include some some super complicated way to also acquire a copy rigged for a serious mesh body from some kind of exchange/update station later on.

I'm astonished at the inability of modern companies to see disgruntled and alienated customers that inevitably will result from certain business decisions... must be something part of the 2020s Zeitgeist.

Edited July 29 by Fionalein

[Galaxy Littlepaws]

15 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Well all other Mesh Bodies do that, they expect an inworld store or even an MP. I don't think that is any different.

This is why I've only made things for non-human mesh avatars, ones that do just let you get access to the kit without filling out application forms. There are a few human avatars that don't do that, but they're either not seen as very good compared to what's out there, or there's some sort of drama with them, which is why I will not name any brands.

I would like a response from Linden Lab about my concerns. I'm not trying to debate anyone because I don't want to get too off-topic (if I did I have many words on my feelings), just discuss my concerns and surprise to LL regarding how they are handling this, on here and the Discord. I will wait for them to read and do their internal discussions or the like and say something to us all. I can't think of much else to say to them about it at this point. But I am confused and would like answers from the Lab, please?

[AmeliaJ08]

44 minutes ago, Galaxy Littlepaws said:

The key here thing in what I'm complaining about is "apply for the devkit".  And the application wants so many things like a slurl to an in-world store. You were free to download the UVs and the like from any website that had them hosted, you didn't need to jump through hoops.

A newbie should be free to create things for the avatar they are given when they rezz in for the first time. That's what I've always loved about SL, the freedom to be and do what you like, and to create things as long as you had the skill and determination. The extremely low barrier of entry for creation and customization. This will just push newbies into thinking they have to spend a lot of money to even make basic things. How are they going to have an in-world store? What will they even fill it with, much less anything LL may be looking for to judge if they're worthy of a devkit?

I'm confused about why we need to apply in the first place. I'm confused about what LL is even looking for exactly. Would I be able to get a devkit if I have 0 items for any human avatars in my store? I've always avoided making things for humans because nearly all of them have these requirements. I just wanted to get started with this new avatar, and make stuff for the newbies so they wouldn't have to spend so much to look nice.

This is it exactly..

I'm so disappointed in this, Senra should have been an opportunity for a lot of us but it seems as walled off as any other widely owned body.

Sure you can get a dev kit for a body nobody wears, it feels a little pointless though. Senra would be owned by everyone, LL could still curate high quality content available in a Senra mall or whatever so the quality argument really falls down imo.

Edited July 29 by AmeliaJ08

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, AmeliaJ08 said:

I'm so disappointed in this, Senra should have been an opportunity for a lot of us but it seems as walled off as any other widely owned body.

It's significantly more walled off. You would be less restrained and have fewer obligations getting a dev kit for any other body.

[Prokofy Neva]

23 hours ago, Rachelle Kiyori said:

To me it sets a tone that is openly hostile to newer creators, for Linden Lab to say on one of their own projects that you cannot develop for an official content that is freely available to everyone *by Linden Lab* (even if it's contacted out) - so you're saying in Second Life any random thing you come up with is good enough for the Second Life grid but not for your precious Senra body? - it really does send a hostile and elitist message and I don't think it's the message they meant to send.

SL never was about "you're not good enough" - at least, that was what I thought going into it. But Senra sends the exact opposite message with its gated SDK availability and confusing license terms.

It goes against the spirit of what Second Life has been for 20 years -- create and upload on demand for an open market, within the TOS.

It's what the other big platforms in Silicon Valley do -- screen, funnel, direct content, like Roblox, Meta, etc. But Linden Lab was different.

Not that they've didn't already have this sort of FIC (feted inner core) stuff for years in various forms, seen and unseen. Maybe some people will stop calling me a conspiracy theorist and start calling me what I am -- a reporter?

But they kept the upload for the masses all this time -- and PS, the library used to be on all perms, and you could take anything in it and adapt it. No more, since they began commissioning content for the library and using Moles' work, who, understandably as contract workers, don't want their stuff opened up.

So I hope this isn't the first sight of a path that shuts down user generated content and market for any one at any level of ability or creativity.

It's sad. It's the way of the world. But again, I thought Second Life was different.

 

Edited July 29 by Prokofy Neva

[Coffee Pancake]

56 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

But again, I thought Second Life was different.

 

The only reason we're here is because it is .. or we believe it to be.

[Rachelle Kiyori]

4 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

You could also get hold of the system avatar as a mesh model.  I want to think that was done by LL too rather than someone else taking it upon themselves to release it but I cannot honestly say.

It was done by LL themselves - but it is also done by viewers too, especially when they open-sourced the viewer. Since the system avatar is embedded within Second Life itself a copy of it comes with every viewer along with transformation/tesselation weights for all the sliders that it responds to for the avatar shape.

Edited July 29 by Rachelle Kiyori

[colleen Criss]

Why be mad or upset? Apply as a creator and see where it goes. you never know. If it does not go well then be mad or upset. Huge waste of your own emotional resources but then yanno it's all up.

[Rachelle Kiyori]

You're missing the entire point - the point isn't how easy it would be to be accepted. It's that it's there in the first place, and the precedent that it sets, along with the unwritten message it sends.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, colleen Criss said:

Apply as a creator and see where it goes. you never know. If it does not go well then be mad or upset. Huge waste of your own emotional resources but then yanno it's all up.

With that legal agreement, if it doesn't go well (and likely if it does) creators would be well advised to show it an actual lawyer and that's not "sad face" that's "sad bank".

All for the ability to legitimately make some rigged mesh stuff that at best will sell for a buck or just be straight up given away.

I have plenty of emotional thoughts about the actual mesh, this is not that.

1 minute ago, Rachelle Kiyori said:

You're missing the entire point - the point isn't how easy it would be to be accepted. It's that it's there in the first place, and the precedent that it sets, along with the unwritten message it sends.

LL are reneging on a 20 year commitment to an open platform founded on it being our world built from our imagination. Break that trust and everything is on the table and everything is questionable.

What's next? Legal agreements to make extras for linden homes, for mainland, for prims, for the ability to upload mesh or operate a store. When else are Linden Lab going to demand access to source files, or to have submit to a "3rd party audit" (what ever that might entail - because it can entail a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g).

Most creators will just ignore this, or the implications, and wait till the rule change that impacts them drops, by which point it will be far too late.

It's also not sufficient for a Linden to come out and say "it's fine you're over reacting, don't worry". This is a breath taking overreach and needs to be rolled back and rethought.

If I were being cynical, and I'm not, I would question why this was dumped on the forums at close of business on a friday.

[GaryLorrid]

Senra Body is their baby; they have every right to protect it if you do the same. When you sign up for second life you have to read terms and conditions to agree to them same thing. 



 Things have changed in the last 20 years. But many  things within second life have been since 2003 more in 2006 so on beforth. They have talked about TRADEMARKS for everyone's safety and their own.  

If you go to the help island by the freebie store and by the bridge got post poll with a notecard inside with about  Vintage  Trademark & Copyright Policies still apply today. 

Vintage terms kinda  examples but yes it's real still the same with new things. 

TRADEMARKS COPYRIGHT  May  2006

In Second Life, we hope creators will use their imagination to make content. Some create things that are inspired by real life objects, like cars or jewelry. As Second Life gets larger, we receive more questions about usage of copyrighted or trademarked material in Second Life.

You should not use copyrighted or trademarked material in Second Life, unless of course you have a right to use the intellectual property. Your rights are defined by applicable copyright and trademark law, including the law of fair use. These are complicated laws, and understanding our Terms of Use.


like a job in real second life is a real business opportunity for anyone to dust yourself off and try. I just started learning to build myself and took a few free classes on how to build and learn to use gimp also help later to make things with bom. I first learned how to make bom with  paint but some people also draw in real can make as paint on clothes. If you are not good at mesh it's a starter. You don't have to be perfect just be yourself.



Their first body was classic like mesh but yes long ago pixel was different but still lovely vintage body. It was their own they made it but someone tried to mess with them they fixed it just as any business to protect themself trade mark its belongs to them still as this new one they allow you to use it but you just have to follow a few things.  

 

First mesh body's came out some azzhats like to sture things someone come out know where say they made the body try to take it away and trolled many mesh body's and mesh body makers had to fight to the bone why good have rules and trademark it.   Because the real artist should be respected as respect goes both ways.  

Omega came out with appliers. People had to use scripts to put inside the body for them to work. People who bought bom had to do the hard way until huds were made but other bodies started to come with their own like appliers or they use omega. This was a safe way so people protected their own work.

 With bom it is like the classic but new with on mesh because it has special grafting so the person that made it may allow you to use but you are not allowed to share those for use on your own so you have to follow some things. Sl may have vintage things to make clothes and things but you can't call the grafting they gave as your own you can use it but you need to come with your own what you create but since you used their you still have to follow some things.  Just like full perm the person worked hard but they want to people be able to use it but main person still the artist you can make your own texture on to it so your the second artist with not everyone can make mesh but many people great making things with textures. If you are new to creating you start with the basics like makeup and shaping go by the features. Like makeup artists go by the features of how it can shape your face so if you just try and test things you also learn how to shape on here. When I was going to art we had to learn shapes first we would draw with grafting so helped to stay in the lines shapes can help you at first then its shading 

 

Work your way into Creating start with the classic version of sl til you work up to the new sl version one.   Looks like they are going to have classes at the new welcome center @ . Senra Body is their baby; they have every right to protect it if you do the same. When you sign up for second life you have to read terms and conditions when things change to agree to them that have to follow rules in first life in the United states other countries they have to follow it. You are right to be proud to be part of this community.

 Things have changed in the last 20 years. But many within second life have been since 2003 more in 2006 so on beforth. They have talked about TRADEMARKS for everyone's safety and their own.  

If you go to the help island by the freebie store and by the bridge got post poll with a notecard inside with about  Trademark & Copyright Policies

Vintage terms kinda like examples but yes it's real still the same with new rules.

TRADEMARKS COPYRIGHT  May 2,2006

In Second Life, we hope creators will use their imagination to make content. Some create things that are inspired by real life objects, like cars or jewelry. As Second Life gets larger, we receive more questions about usage of copyrighted or trademarked material in Second Life.

You should not use copyrighted or trademarked material in Second Life, unless of course you have a right to use the intellectual property. Your rights are defined by applicable copyright and trademark law, including the law of fair use. These are complicated laws, and understanding our Terms of Use.


like a job in real second life is a real business opportunity for anyone to dust yourself off and try. I just started learning to build myself and took a few free classes on how to build and learn to use gimp also help later to make things with bom. I first learned how to make bom with  paint but some people also draw in real can make as paint on clothes. If you are not good at mesh it's a starter. You don't have to be perfect just be yourself.



Their first body was classic like mesh but yes long ago pixel was different but still lovely vintage body. It was their own they made it but someone tried to mess with them they fixed it just as any business to protect themself trade mark its belongs to them still as this new one they allow you to use it but you just have to follow a few things.  

 

First mesh body's came out some azzhats like to sture things someone come out know where say they made the body try to take it away and trolled many mesh body's and mesh body makers had to fight to the bone why good have rules and trademark it.   Because the real artist should be respected as respect goes both ways.  

Omega came out with appliers. People had to use scripts to put inside the body for them to work. People who bought bom had to do the hard way until huds were made but other bodies started to come with their own like appliers or they use omega. This was a safe way so people protected their own work.

 With bom it is like the classic but new with on mesh because it has special grafting so the person that made it may allow you to use but you are not allowed to share those for use on your own so you have to follow some things. Sl may have vintage things to make clothes and things but you can't call the grafting they gave as your own you can use it but you need to come with your own what you create but since you used their you still have to follow some things.  Just like full perm the person worked hard but they want to people be able to use it but main person still the artist you can make your own texture on to it so your the second artist with not everyone can make mesh but many people great making things with textures. If you are new to creating you start with the basics like makeup and shaping go by the features. Like makeup artists go by the features of how it can shape your face so if you just try and test things you also learn how to shape on here. When I was going to art we had to learn shapes first we would draw with grafting so helped to stay in the lines shapes can help you at first then its shading 

 

Work your way into Creating start with the classic version of sl til you work up to the new sl version one.   Looks like they are going to have classes down the road   @ Sandbox Welcome Area, WelcomeHubSandbox.

Other building/Clothing classes 

Builder's Brewery

College of Scripting Music & Science. 

Ivory Tower 

Happy Hippo Building School 

Helping Haven Gateway 

Texture Tutorial, Livingtree

Edited July 30 by GaryLorrid

[Rachelle Kiyori]

14 minutes ago, GaryLorrid said:

Senra Body is their baby; they have every right to protect it if you do the same. When you sign up for second life you have to read terms and conditions when things change to agree to them that have to follow rules in first life in the United states other countries they have to follow it. You are right to be proud to be part of this community.

We're not arguing against their rights. If they wanted to they could close down the SL grid completely and make it private where only a few select people have access. That's well within their rights.

Their rights is not the point of the debate. The problem here is - over the 20 years of SL's existence they've been open and encouraging of people to generate their own content, and to some extent even make a profit from it - even if it's not very much. The world is enjoyable not because Linden Lab created it - it's enjoyable because they created a platform to allow *us* to create it, and even encouraged it. And this Senra issue is a complete about-face of their once open and nurturing vision - with legal overreach that we've never had before on this platform. A company that once said "here you can play with it, it's still our's but we want to see what you do with it" is now turning into an elitist gatekeeper that has the final say on whether you can even publish content for their works -

All of this, with the stipulation that they can ask for literally anything to prove that the work you made was original. That kind of freedom for information and materials is usually reserved for lawsuits during the discovery process.

[Kadah Coba]

What's with all the human mesh bodies needing to be cursed?

Skimming over the talk around this one, it kinda sounds like they might have confused the list of general complaints about other mesh bodies for a design spec. The only possible upside I'm seeing is maybe its easier to get access to the devkit, but this appears to be offset by restrictive and limiting license terms.

Couldn't we have commissioned a few permissive open source bodies instead?

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, Kadah Coba said:

What's with all the human mesh bodies needing to be cursed?

because people don't understand the golden rule of the internet .. if the furries are doing it, you should be doing that too, because they are years ahead of the general curve and a proven solid predictor of technology.

[Velcon Ethaniel]

Patch, as someone who has been a part of secondlife for 16+ years...I am extremely disappointed in your decision making on this issue.

[Rachelle Kiyori]

14 minutes ago, Velcon Ethaniel said:

Patch, as someone who has been a part of secondlife for 16+ years...I am extremely disappointed in your decision making on this issue.

Things like this are rarely one single person. I really don't think Patch was the sole driving force behind the decisions that were made here - if he even had any influence on this, he probably would have been as part of a group and there's no telling whether he agreed or disagreed with the consensus - so it's probably not fair to lay it on him just yet.

Edited July 30 by Rachelle Kiyori

[Fionalein]

As many stuff the Lab did it started with good intentions, but then they got carried away and forgot why they even started it.

Convincing users to stay or even upgrade to premium requires trust - trust that won't be there when the new users realize the new outfit they just invested in is for a body not supported by the majority of content creators. Even if they won't buy anything because a well meaning resident warned them in time ... trust will be lost anyways. Many will interpret this as an attempt to take advantage of their ignorance. Many free to play browser games try that - how would new users consider LL to be different?

So now instead of the new user retention aid it was intended to be, NUX has developed into a machinery that erodes new users' trust into LindenLab,... I'm pretty sure it will not work as intended if LL continues down that path.

Edited July 30 by Fionalein

[AmeliaJ08]

I'm as disappointed as most seem to be here but I think we're experiencing the effect of crossed wires.

I feel we the users want this body to be something for everyone, maybe not a top-end mesh body but something that was usable and maybe even worth creating for. A body that was universal and open, free for everyone to experiment with without the barriers that other widely used bodies have introduced as far as creation. A body that looks good enough to actually wear something you may create for it.

I feel LL probably never looked at it that way. They want something roughly on-par with other mesh bodies but certainly not open for us plebs to be messing around with and creating amateurish content for. They want a nice clean library of Senra content made by people with a proven track record of quality that will make noobies feel like they've spent money on content produced by a professional. New User Experience, I think it's likely that this will include some sort of Senra content mall or similar from the hints we've been getting.

If we look at wider LL strategy there's clearly an effort to tidy up Second Life, dampen and restrict the users unwavering ability to make a mess and treat the place like a giant lego kit: Bellisseria. Clean, uncluttered, high quality and created with a pretty rigid creative vision and with minimal allowance for the users to change it. Maybe Senra follows a similar philosophy?

I get their point but I think maybe the rest of our expectations should have been dampened a long time ago, people were anticipating this body and are probably feeling quite let down by realizing you're still not going to be allowed to play with content creation unless you're given special blessing.

 

(all of this ignores the licensing issues that have been raised of course, just focusing on what I think is going on as far as the barrier of entry)

 

Edited July 30 by AmeliaJ08

[Rachelle Kiyori]

"Being like other creators" just doesn't work for Linden Lab. Other creators can judge other residents more harshly; that's internet, it's expected, it's not great but it is what it is. Coming from Linden Labs is a whole different ball of wax.

As I've said before - I always got the impression that Second Life was all about openness. The gating of Senra, even if it's just some side project, sends the exact opposite message, and in a hostile tone at that. It's a message that I really don't think Linden Labs wants to catch themselves sending.

[Persephone Emerald]

On 7/28/2023 at 1:55 PM, Tazzie Tuque said:

Can older avatars update their SL avatars to the new ones?  And if so how?  There are loads of us older folks (like me 17 years in SL)  who just might like a new basic avatar given the look of our original ones lol.  

Yes. The new avatars will be in the Library of our Inventories.