What's your take on Flexi hair and development for it?

[Subscribedd]

I've gotten wonderful help from this community in terms of hair. all from Magika, to DOUX, to even Stealthic. All great hairs, all amazing looks. 

This is coming from a place where I clearly do not make items or realize how hard it might be. But am I the only one who wish we had more Flexihair ''looks'' but not physics? 

So many good Flexi hairstyles with the slick baby hair and I actually found more Flexi hairs I would wear as opposed to the many other hair stores I found, but the clipping and physics would drive me absolutely insane. I was wondering if people have actually made such hairs but possibly aren't popular or known.  Or maybe it just can't be done?

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

I like a bit of movement in my hair.  I know there are creators that mix mesh and flexi.  One that comes to mind that I wear a lot is Analog Dog.  Short to medium length styles work better to hide the clipping than those magnificent long flowing locks we used to wear.

[Subscribedd]

8 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I like a bit of movement in my hair.  I know there are creators that mix mesh and flexi.  One that comes to mind that I wear a lot is Analog Dog.  Short to medium length styles work better to hide the clipping than those magnificent long flowing locks we used to wear.

Ah! do you know of multiple people who do mesh/flexi? that would be really nice to dabble in. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 hours ago, Subscribedd said:

Ah! do you know of multiple people who do mesh/flexi? that would be really nice to dabble in. 

Studio Exposure has some mesh/flexi addons and nice hairbases.

Actually, the Hair Fair event is underway, so I'd recommend checking there for some things.

https://hairfair.wordpress.com/

[Rowan Amore]

I actually think the flexi hair out there now looks worse than it did before.  I have found exactly ONE high, short ponytail that I've worn that looks 1/2 way decent.

I picked up a couple demos for flexi at the hair fair.  Even the vendor photos show it inside the boob or arm or shoulder.  I appreciate them not editing that out but lordy, it's just a step back IMO.  Until they can do flexi that doesn't do that, I'll pass.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Rowan Amore

[Wulfie Reanimator]

I'd pass on full-flexi hair like we had back in the day.

Mesh hair (rigged or not) mixed with some flexi elements can look really nice, especially if it's short (shoulder length at most) hair.

Fully-rigged shoulder-length mesh hair just doesn't hit the same. It always looks kinda glued on and lifeless. Longer hair looks fine fully rigged.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Subscribedd]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

I actually think the flexi hair out there now looks worse than it did before.  I have found exactly ONE high, short ponytail that I've worn that looks 1/2 way decent.

I picked up a couple demos for flexi at the hair fair.  Even the vendor photos show it inside the boob or arm or shoulder.  I appreciate them not editing that out but lordy, it's just a step back IMO.  Until they can do flexi that doesn't do that, I'll pass.

Oh my gosh yes! like Rosylyn. She wears a lot of it (as you pointed out to me in the past) and i never noticed it then but i do see it now. she does sell that hair but *****ing hell when you buy it, the clippinge is INSANE. 

[Jennifer Boyle]

I strongly prefer flexi hair and usually wear it. Many mesh hairstyles look to me like hair that has way too much hairspray on it. Long ago, before mesh existed in SL, I started wearing mostly shoulder-length or shorter hair to avoid having my hair penetrate my body, so that is what I got used to. My favorite and most-worn style, the one in my forum picture, is "*Dura-Girl*42."

For long hairstyles, I like fitmesh.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Jennifer Boyle

[Rowan Amore]

https://gyazo.com/365a58902eca5bf33c57c1debaa28566

[takemasaa]

I love and adore flexi hair, but also considering how out of fashion it is, I refuse to wear it unless I have my purposely outdated inspired-by-the-2000's avatar on (the tackier the better, I say). I would assume avoiding clipping is impossible, the physics are just inherently awful... I'm not sure they can fix that. Since the body isn't considered an object with collision, the flexi prims just go all over the place. Happens with clothes too. The closest thing to the flowy movement without clipping, like others have suggested here, is mesh + flexi combos. I've purchased a few of those, but most of them still have that very outdated look.

I do wish more current hair creators were more willing to include flexi elements, but I can see why they don't. I'm surprised some creators are still including it despite the flaws with it. They're a pain when long since it the clipping is so awful, and with the physics system I'm not sure many improvements can be made at all. I'd have to assume if it were fixed, more creators might make flexi hairs, but that seems like a pipe dream.

[steeljane42]

I didn't like them one bit in 2012 when I did join SL, I don't like them now, too. Full flexi, partial flexi, all the same thing. None of the top creators makes them anymore either, although opinion on what top creators are might vary. But Magika, Stealthic, Doux, Truth (and their collaboration projects this year), Dura and so on, all full mesh and for a very very long time.

I remember some tried to make key framed hair with "animations", Exile Exxess and more, those also did look terrible, and Stealthic+Vista made one animesh style which also wasn't received very well given the fact it was their first and only attempt.

Of course, personal opinions on that as well, but I dislike flexi on others too. The clipping, the jerky movements, and of course just general quality of them all make them look awful in my opinion.

Edited June 22, 2023 by steeljane42
corrections and typos

[Rowan Amore]

A few stores attempted 'moving' hair in the past.  Exxess was one of them that had a breeze style.  The problem was it moved all the time and not just when you moved.  Lelutka had a few styles, also.

Not sure if the Lelutka styles are still for sale but this is one available from Exxess.

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/eXxEsS-Mesh-Hair-Gin/11724820

 

[Lucia Nightfire]

Flexi is old, but some styles can still look ok even when everything else worn is rigged mesh.

https://gyazo.com/7056c6b588fd6e1aa12b620b5a4218d4

We need dynamic bones and colliders so hair can fall over, on top of and be moved by our joints/limbs.

Almost every other MMO, at least ones that are UN/UR based, have such support.

[Stephanie Misfit]

I bought a great hair base with a bun that has flexi bits. Thought it looked nice till I realised it added about 300k to my complexity. So there is that to consider when trying stuff on, too.

[AmeliaJ08]

The only development I can think of that would progress this type of product would be to create a new skeleton of hair 'bones' that could somehow be independent of the main Bento skeleton yet also linked to it to enable natural movement and avoid clipping.

It would have to be quite an extensive set of 'bones' to cover the myriad of hair styles though and as far as I know a system to control it in relation to the main Bento body skeleton does not exist.

Maybe something for the future but as of now more natural looking hair that can move in relation to you is out of reach for technical reasons.

Edited June 22, 2023 by AmeliaJ08

[Nalates Urriah]

4 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

The only development I can think of that would progress this type of product would be to create a new skeleton of hair 'bones' that could somehow be independent of the main Bento skeleton yet also linked to it to enable natural movement and avoid clipping.

It would have to be quite an extensive set of 'bones' to cover the myriad of hair styles though and as far as I know a system to control it in relation to the main Bento body skeleton does not exist.

Maybe something for the future but as of now more natural looking hair that can move in relation to you is out of reach for technical reasons.

Yeah... we have that. It is called animesh. The problem is the render cost. (Ref)

[Drake1 Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Yeah... we have that. It is called animesh. The problem is the render cost. (Ref)

The render cost of flexi hair is just as bad, no? I mean, i landed in a shop where there was a minotaur covered with flexi fur.. His arc was over 4 million and i crashed soon after landing..

[Nalates Urriah]

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

The render cost of flexi hair is just as bad, no? I mean, i landed in a shop where there was a minotaur covered with flexi fur.. His arc was over 4 million and i crashed soon after landing..

No... Anyone can abuse the system. There are griefers that intend to crash your computer by overloading the render process. It is why we have a Max Complexity setting in the viewer. The minotaur avie may have been trying for realistic fur. Or they may have meant to be a problem.

The idea of using Animesh for more realistic hair certainly allows for animation. But creating an armature in the hair as suggested is render expensive and IMO doesn't move us toward more realistic.

[HarrisonMcKenzie]

I've never been a fan, probably because all the ones I've seen look really outdated and clunky. It also adds to lag and avatar complexity, so I try not to make a habit of it.

[Blaise Glendevon]

I'm happy to see the back of it, as a trend.

[Conifer Dada]

I stopped using flexi hair a few years ago because I didn't like the way the hair disappeared into one's shoulders at times. i did even make my own flexi hair style with two long plaits, which looked OK 75% of the time, depending on how you moved!

I still use a system avatar and I'm happy doing that, although I'll certainly give LL's NUX avatars a try when they come along, but unless they come up with flexi mesh that doesn't disappear into my shoulders, I'll give flexi hair a miss.

 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

There are very few that I like and wear at all today.. Most are flexi & mesh mix..

This one I really like, but not only is the render cost expensive, but so is the hair itself.. hehehe

If there is any stand alone flexi that I wear, it's always above the shoulders.. I can't stand clipping at all.. hehehe

 

[AmeliaJ08]

21 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Yeah... we have that. It is called animesh. The problem is the render cost. (Ref)

Like that has ever stopped SL creators in the past. If we have it why hasn't anyone used it for attachments like hair and also if we have it how exactly does it interact with the existing bento skeleton?

I know what you are saying but animesh isn't quite what I was talking about, it's close but if we're going to have hair that moves with us the hair would need to be aware of our existing bones.

[Ceka Cianci]

1 minute ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Like that has ever stopped SL creators in the past. If we have it why hasn't anyone used it for attachments like hair and also if we have it how exactly does it interact with the existing bento skeleton?

I know what you are saying but animesh isn't quite what I was talking about, it's close but if we're going to have hair that moves with us the hair would need to be aware of our existing bones.

Let alone when they use animesh with hair.. It's usually just one add on piece, like a pony tail or something..  Most can only attach one animesh piece to their avatars, unless they are a Premium Plus member.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

22 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Like that has ever stopped SL creators in the past. If we have it why hasn't anyone used it for attachments like hair and also if we have it how exactly does it interact with the existing bento skeleton?

I know what you are saying but animesh isn't quite what I was talking about, it's close but if we're going to have hair that moves with us the hair would need to be aware of our existing bones.

Animesh hair is out there, I don't have a link handy right now. There's also medusa-style snake/tentacle attachments. Furries often use animesh for tails (especially multi-tails).

It doesn't affect or interact with the avatar's usual skeleton, everything will clip right through unless the hair comes with its own AO with matching animations for the hair and the avatar (so sitting on furniture is a bad idea).

Edited June 23, 2023 by Wulfie Reanimator