Got asked about why I talk/rant/blather on so much (as an artist) about avatar proportions ...

[Conifer Dada]

On 7/23/2022 at 3:36 PM, Drake1 Nightfire said:

At 6'5"(measured by pirm) I am still usually one of the shortest males anywhere I go and a good majority of women tower over me.

This raises another issue - the disparity between height shown on the avatar editor and height measured against a prim. I chose to go with the avatar editor, on which I'm 5ft 5in, but a prim of that height as measured in the 'build' editor only comes up to my eye level.  Since much of SL's built environment is on a large scale anyway, like 12ft high doors for example, I decided to go by the height on the avatar editor.

[HelenaNavy92]

When I edit a new shape I always choose close to 2 metres. But some guys are really big, idk what's the reason for that. I don't think that my avi must be exact same size as I am in rl. Same as I don't think I should look as real me. I don't see the point in it because I have a chance to look different. Why should I waste that. But that's my opinion. 

[Blush Bravin]

I am 5'3" RL and my avie is 5.98', so I am not anything as short here in SL as I am RL. I don't really have any complaint with height as long as avatars can be in correct proportion. And since my avatar at nearly 6' feet has her arms maxed out at 100 on the slider then I cannot get any taller and keep my arms in proper proportion. Consequently, I really do believe that that limitation is what really should be the deciding factor.

The fact that size really matters with mesh and that smaller nearly always equals lower LI, that's just a bonus. Who doesn't love more LI when furnishing a home or stocking a business?

[Jordyn McGregor]

That's why I don't like couple dancing either.

Plus it's way more fun to laugh at the uber tall guy dancing with the chick whose feet are standing on his kneecaps.  I guess gone are the days when you'd stand on his feet....

[Blush Bravin]

I was thinking a couple days ago if we could hover for all those years while dancing, then why can't the guys sink into the floors for awhile!

[Maitimo]

16 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

I was thinking a couple days ago if we could hover for all those years while dancing, then why can't the guys sink into the floors for awhile!

If it's the girl who initiates the request from the dance machine, they will.  At least Intans do that, not sure about other systems. 

[Otharious]

Sl due to 3rd person camarea and trying to move around has made everything BIGGER to have more space for the camera in tight places.

Soo I always add a foot to everything?

you 5.7 irl?   make your avatar 6.7 then

Perception works different in sl due to it not being 3d like irl
Now Vrchat however your perception changes based on how small or big your avatar is. its wild in vr

[Rowan Amore]

37 minutes ago, Otharious said:

you 5.7 irl?   make your avatar 6.7 then

Or change your default camera position.  

[colleen Criss]

In all my sl years I rarely give a thought to avatar height or proportion. I approach SL as *your imagination * . We are supposed to enjoy and have fun and look like one wants, I support that. We have all had those moments of *WTH* like the 1st time I saw a Giantess, but she was super nice and that was her role. The first time I saw a very small stickman who wanted me to dominate him, he was super nice too BUT I did wonder off with a new understanding that people play the roles that make them happy. I can live with that. I'm always careful to do no harm.

[Cougar Sangria]

When I rezzed into this world I used the default avatar shape as a starting point. I couldn't understand why I was so short compared to my surroundings and other people. I looked like I was sniffing bootays or crotches all the time.  It took me a while to learn the sliders and that I could actually increase my height and change my shape.  When I went to the Miss Virtual World Academy for modeling my height increased again significantly.  For many years the height slider was pushed high for me.  Then I decided about 5 years ago to decrease my height.  I am 5'7" in 1st.  I now stand 6.78 flat footed, and in stilettos I stand 7.11 here in 2nd.  I wear stilettos most of the time  I have no plans to decrease my height any further.  I am taller than many around me , though not always the tallest.  I am like most, loving my avatar as an extension of me.  Why would I change what I love for anyone or their opinion?  If you want to be 8, 9 feet tall, have ginormus muscles, want to be short and wear platforms as tall as you so you stand 7' tall, or have hips and junk in trunk that are as wide as I am tall, or you want tata's that portrude a mile out, or want t-rex arms or/and a Beetleguice head then by all mean do it.  It's 2nd Life.  Your world, your imagination.  I am not here to rain on your parade.  What a dull, boring world it would be if we were all alike.  We are all just trying to survive in both worlds that put so much emphasis on the standard perception of beauty.  No thanks.  I will do what makes me happy, and in the process try and do no harm as @colleen Criss said.  You do the same. In the end you are free to derender :). 

If anyone is curious...my Flickr...*Some photographs are tagged moderate and restricted  

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by Cougar Sangria
spelling

[Miranda Umino]

On 7/26/2022 at 10:04 AM, Conifer Dada said:

This raises another issue - the disparity between height shown on the avatar editor and height measured against a prim. I chose to go with the avatar editor, on which I'm 5ft 5in, but a prim of that height as measured in the 'build' editor only comes up to my eye level.  Since much of SL's built environment is on a large scale anyway, like 12ft high doors for example, I decided to go by the height on the avatar editor.

Bad method because you have not taken in consideration the height of the shoes who are  far away bigger than shoes in real end heighter than men's shoes

You have not taken too in consideration this : the animations are centered by a point who is not the same value between male or females . In using what you call "ideal proportion" ( in fact they arent ideal )  you could get your male partnair floating his shoes   above your shoes or reciprocally

Edited August 1, 2022 by Miranda Umino

[PheebyKatz]

I'm usually 1.3 meters tall. I like going to places that are full of babies so I can pretend I'm a giantess.

I try to be careful not to stomp around, so it's okay.

Height is such a booger with so many things in SL. It's difficult to even hug a grownup sometimes, if they're too tall.

And don't even get me started on dances. So many dances I can't even bother with because I end up underground.

I once found an island full of people all with the same last name, and they were all about 9 feet tall with identical faces. It seriously creeped me out. They all must have shared the same house, because it was the size of a castle, and there wasn't room for more than one.

Edited August 1, 2022 by PheebyKatz

[Conifer Dada]

4 hours ago, Miranda Umino said:

Bad method because you have not taken in consideration the height of the shoes who are  far away bigger than shoes in real end heighter than men's shoes

You have not taken too in consideration this : the animations are centered by a point who is not the same value between male or females . In using what you call "ideal proportion" ( in fact they arent ideal )  you could get your male partnair floating his shoes   above your shoes or reciprocally

Not a bad method at all!  Shoes add to your height in SL just the same as they do in RL.  I don't wear very high shoes and I don't often do couple dances so those things aren't a problem. Anyway, it's easy for anyone to adjust their hover height when doing a couple dance.  In any case a lot of men (and quite a number of women) are unrealistically tall in SL, whichever method of height measurement you use.

[PheebyKatz]

I'm secretly kind of glad that some people are just really tall, because it helps me look the right height. I can't get any shorter unless I switch to something with a "scrunched" skeleton, and I don't think I'd look all that great as an elongated toddler. If I could go a head shorter, I'd look normal next to any realistically-sized grownup avatar (going by "average" inworld measurements, of course).

If the sliders went further than they do, everyone could be a realistic size and have more consensus on proportion, maybe.

At least more people are trying to make furniture for smaller persons, and not just 9-foot-tall giants.

Iunno, height is just weird in SL. I think if the center of the avatar wasn't the main reference point for animations (or was better accounted for), it might all go better. Sinking into the floor and hovering in their air happen to us all, and I just try to pretend around it so as not to ruin the good intentions behind things, but yeah.

Edited August 1, 2022 by PheebyKatz

[Jerry McNally]

It's fascinating, reading this, hearing how different some people's perspectives are, what they compare themselves too, if at all. I need to check how tall I am, and I how measure up to my friends. I've always thought of myself as 'average', but maybe I need to stop making lazy assumptions.

[Miranda Umino]

17 hours ago, Conifer Dada said:

Not a bad method at all!  Shoes add to your height in SL just the same as they do in RL.  I don't wear very high shoes and I don't often do couple dances so those things aren't a problem. Anyway, it's easy for anyone to adjust their hover height when doing a couple dance.  In any case a lot of men (and quite a number of women) are unrealistically tall in SL, whichever method of height measurement you use.

Bad method . In Sl as in RL , men don t wear shoes who do 1 feet in height !!! Women in SL do when it s unrealistc and they don t in RL

You don t do couple dances : it s your right : but others have the right too to love them . In addition even single animations can become awful with a change of size . There are animation resellers who have offered different animations depending on the size of the avatar

Hover height is a bad method 

How you can you tell than people unrealistically tall  when in fact it s not measurement but proportions who is the rule in a virtual world

How for instance you explain than the viewer Firestorm indicates 20 centimeters to the height of avatar compared to the official viewer or to the scripts ?

Instance :

i have taken Ashton , the free complete avatar male given by LL : the slider height from 0 to 100 gives sizes betwen 1.53 meters and  2.05 meters  ( between 5.03 and 6.73 feet )  on the official viewer ? In the firestorm viewer , the slider height from 0 to 100 gives sizes betwen 1.73 meters and  2.25 meters  ( between 5.67 and 7.37 feet )

 . If women were connecting on the offical viewer and wear of their shoes , they will see with horror they "measure" maybe 1.30 or 1.40 meters

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Miranda Umino

[Ceka Cianci]

10 hours ago, Miranda Umino said:

Bad method . In Sl as in RL , men don t wear shoes who do 1 feet in height !!! Women in SL do when it s unrealistc and they don t in RL

You don t do couple dances : it s your right : but others have the right too to love them . In addition even single animations can become awful with a change of size . There are animation resellers who have offered different animations depending on the size of the avatar

Hover height is a bad method 

How you can you tell than people unrealistically tall  when in fact it s not measurement but proportions who is the rule in a virtual world

How for instance you explain than the viewer Firestorm indicates 20 centimeters to the height of avatar compared to the official viewer or to the scripts ?

Instance :

i have taken Ashton , the free complete avatar male given by LL : the slider height from 0 to 100 gives sizes betwen 1.53 meters and  2.05 meters  ( between 5.03 and 6.73 feet )  on the official viewer ? In the firestorm viewer , the slider height from 0 to 100 gives sizes betwen 1.73 meters and  2.25 meters  ( between 5.67 and 7.37 feet )

 . If women were connecting on the offical viewer and wear of their shoes , they will see with horror they "measure" maybe 1.30 or 1.40 meters

 

It's that one viewer measures from the top of the head and the other measures lower. They really should use a prim to measure or set their height by..

If they stood next to a prim that measured  1,66m in firestorm and set their height to the prim, only the measuring point would be off and not the actual height.

The top of the head will still be at 1.66m in the SL viewer..

I always say people should use a prim and not go by the appearance window.. But if they were to go by one, firestorm does the top of the head and will match the closest to their height..

I'm 1.66 in firestorm and 1.47 in the SL viewer but still  1.66m when it get next to the prim..

Ya shoes only make us change hover to get them out of the floor.. hehehe

ETA: I decided to lower the prim until it hit 1.47m on my avatar  in firestorm.. The top of the prim comes  just below my ears and just below to top of my upper lip..  hehehehe

So ya, The SL viewer is way off..

Edited August 2, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Miranda Umino]

On 8/3/2022 at 12:21 AM, Ceka Cianci said:

It's that one viewer measures from the top of the head and the other measures lower. They really should use a prim to measure or set their height by..

If they stood next to a prim that measured  1,66m in firestorm and set their height to the prim, only the measuring point would be off and not the actual height.

The top of the head will still be at 1.66m in the SL viewer..

I always say people should use a prim and not go by the appearance window.. But if they were to go by one, firestorm does the top of the head and will match the closest to their height..

I'm 1.66 in firestorm and 1.47 in the SL viewer but still  1.66m when it get next to the prim..

Ya shoes only make us change hover to get them out of the floor.. hehehe

ETA: I decided to lower the prim until it hit 1.47m on my avatar  in firestorm.. The top of the prim comes  just below my ears and just below to top of my upper lip..  hehehehe

So ya, The SL viewer is way off..

[redacted] You don t understand  that my original post was not to compare viewers , but to define height

So for you , the size of an avatr , is not based on the physical shape , neither the size of skelentons . 

But in  addition you are lying by claiming that Firestorm give the "visual" height .

1) when, you put an alpha on your head , the height of your visual aspect change . But does it change something displayed in Forestorm under the tab shape ? No

2) when you load a customisez mesh , is your method in using a cube closed to  the avatar gives the value displayed by Fiorestom ? No . You can take  for instance the freebie Shark : https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/King-Shark-Bento-Avatar/22683303

The size returned by the value in shape tab in Forestorm gives 2.20 meters with a slider for height in the shape tab  set at 39 ( default given by the creator )

But when you measure with a cube , it gives more than 2.53  meters . So 33 centimetes of difference ? And in taking the same argue than you  , but against you , you find this correct ?

In fact the value returned by Forestorm doesn t give the height in "vusual aspect" , neither gives some informations about bones , skeletons , physcis of the mesh  : it  s uncirelated from every possible meaning 

 

 

If you want other avatars where the value displayed  by forestorm is wrong , i have got several others to show you

Edited August 4, 2022 by Quartz Mole

[Paladin Tyran]

On 7/22/2022 at 10:33 PM, Katherine Heartsong said:

... and why I actually turn down dances with male avatars who are too tall. So here's your answer

This is the standard artist ideal (left), and an image of the last guy I danced with for one dance (right) to scale.

The issue for me is this is common. Every male avatar at last night's dance towered over me ... standing 6'0" (182cm) tall in heels. Towered. And as much as you're cute, I can't get past how silly it looks. Yeah, I know SL's fantasy land, but I like what I like. Dance? Cuddles? Get down here, handsome.

nothing wrong with a little dif

[Charalyne Blackwood]

46 minutes ago, Paladin Tyran said:

nothing wrong with a little dif

SL couples dance animations don't work for that. The short avi will be floating several inches off the floor. Not so much the height difference as how SL handles it.

 

[Conifer Dada]

On 8/3/2022 at 12:12 PM, Miranda Umino said:

[redacted] You don t understand  that my original post was not to compare viewers , but to define height

So for you , the size of an avatr , is not based on the physical shape , neither the size of skelentons . 

But in  addition you are lying by claiming that Firestorm give the "visual" height .

1) when, you put an alpha on your head , the height of your visual aspect change . But does it change something displayed in Forestorm under the tab shape ? No

2) when you load a customisez mesh , is your method in using a cube closed to  the avatar gives the value displayed by Fiorestom ? No . You can take  for instance the freebie Shark : https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/King-Shark-Bento-Avatar/22683303

The size returned by the value in shape tab in Forestorm gives 2.20 meters with a slider for height in the shape tab  set at 39 ( default given by the creator )

But when you measure with a cube , it gives more than 2.53  meters . So 33 centimetes of difference ? And in taking the same argue than you  , but against you , you find this correct ?

In fact the value returned by Forestorm doesn t give the height in "vusual aspect" , neither gives some informations about bones , skeletons , physcis of the mesh  : it  s uncirelated from every possible meaning 

 

 

If you want other avatars where the value displayed  by forestorm is wrong , i have got several others to show you

I use the LL standard viewer for SL and I know that Firestorm's measurements are different because I use that for OpenSim. I use a classic system avatar so the measurements are 'true' to the editor. There are only 2 ways to measure height - the avatar editor or a prim. Using a system avatar the prim height is less than on the editor.  If you use a mesh body then its height might be different from the height of the system avatar it's attached to.  I don't have that problem!

Edited August 4, 2022 by Quartz Mole

[Extrude Ragu]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_human_height_by_country

Even if you sort by tallest male avg height, the tallest is 1.85m and most countries are more like around 1.75 or so.. In SL many men are abnormal ~2m tall towers.

Of course the reason can be attributed to many things, peer pressure, default camera height, the built environment not being to scale etc

[Miranda Umino]

34 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_human_height_by_country

Even if you sort by tallest male avg height, the tallest is 1.85m and most countries are more like around 1.75 or so.. In SL many men are abnormal ~2m tall towers.

Of course the reason can be attributed to many things, peer pressure, default camera height, the built environment not being to scale etc

And so ? majority of women wear supersize cup size in SL  when in RL , the majorty of women wear A or B cup .  Even Ruth has a biggest breast than the world average and nearly every women in Sl wear a biggest cup than ruth

Yeah USA and Russia are not representative of the rest of the world

map countries by cup size . the red is biggen the blue is smaller 

In addition , there are not a lot of africans or south east asians ( who are less tall )  connecting in second life 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Miranda Umino

[Miranda Umino]

1 hour ago, Conifer Dada said:

I use the LL standard viewer for SL and I know that Firestorm's measurements are different because I use that for OpenSim. I use a classic system avatar so the measurements are 'true' to the editor. There are only 2 ways to measure height - the avatar editor or a prim. Using a system avatar the prim height is less than on the editor.  If you use a mesh body then its height might be different from the height of the system avatar it's attached to.  I don't have that problem!

What is a classic avatar ? Since we can import our own mesh and our own havatar rigged , it doesn t make any sense . It s not because the mesh was a shark than the editor in firestorm gives a wrong value , but because of the rigging , bones and skeletons . Someone can import a body mesh with its own rigging and having a wrong value in the editor infirestorm , even if his body mesh is correct and is human

Anyway , everybody can see than the value returned by the editor in firestorm is not reliable 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Miranda Umino

[Drake1 Nightfire]

On 8/3/2022 at 12:12 PM, Miranda Umino said:

[redacted] You don t understand  that my original post was not to compare viewers , but to define height

So for you , the size of an avatr , is not based on the physical shape , neither the size of skelentons . 

But in  addition you are lying by claiming that Firestorm give the "visual" height .

1) when, you put an alpha on your head , the height of your visual aspect change . But does it change something displayed in Forestorm under the tab shape ? No

2) when you load a customisez mesh , is your method in using a cube closed to  the avatar gives the value displayed by Fiorestom ? No . You can take  for instance the freebie Shark : https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/King-Shark-Bento-Avatar/22683303

The size returned by the value in shape tab in Forestorm gives 2.20 meters with a slider for height in the shape tab  set at 39 ( default given by the creator )

But when you measure with a cube , it gives more than 2.53  meters . So 33 centimetes of difference ? And in taking the same argue than you  , but against you , you find this correct ?

In fact the value returned by Forestorm doesn t give the height in "vusual aspect" , neither gives some informations about bones , skeletons , physcis of the mesh  : it  s uncirelated from every possible meaning 

 

 

If you want other avatars where the value displayed  by forestorm is wrong , i have got several others to show you

OK, first off, the "size" of a non human mesh avatar can be wildly off by prim size measurement AND by the viewer. It measures the skeleton. Most non human mesh avatars use a deformer to get the correct shape of the skeleton. Which can give weird measurements. 

Secondly, please dont post links to stolen/ripped game content. That av is the property of DC comic and is ripped from one of their games. 

Height in SL has been defined by LL. They set the ruler. A prim is the best way to measure your height as its measurements are defined by LL. A 1m cube is a 1m cube no matter what sim you rez it on. If your height , measured by prim, says 2m then your av is 2m tall. I dont care what the viewer says. The viewer doesn't measure your mesh, it measures your skeleton. I have a dragon av that the viewer says i am 3m tall.. The av is over 12m long, so which is correct? 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Quartz Mole