Elon Musk buys Twitter to bring back Free Speech

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Then it would appear his mother didn't receive any of that in the divorce settlement a few years after Elon was born because in one of the links I posted, it was mentioned she worked 5 jobs to make ends meet when they first arrived back in Toronto. This was also verified by his mother in an interview she had with Huffpost about her modelling career.

Sounds more like a rags to riches story then being born with a silver spoon in his mouth and though that may have been questionably the case until he was in his mid teens, it didn't help him when he started working.

He lived with dad for much of the time, graduating high school in South Africa then moving to Canada to attend college rather than enlist in the SA military.  Dad also lent him the $28,000 to start his first business.  

[Innula Zenovka]

Question:  assuming Elon Musk does buy Twitter, who thinks that, come the Presidential election, the question, "under whose administration are billionaires like me going to pay less tax?" will not cross his mind when setting moderation policy?

[Rilee Dallas]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Maybe is rare right-of-center Libertarian?

Or maybe south by southeast 47 degrees north of center. 

[Arielle Popstar]

55 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

He lived with dad for much of the time, graduating high school in South Africa then moving to Canada to attend college rather than enlist in the SA military.  Dad also lent him the $28,000 to start his first business.  

“We started Zip2 with ~$2k from me plus my overclocked home-built PC, ~$5k from my bro & ~$8k from Greg Kouri (such a good guy — he is greatly missed),” Musk also tweeted, breaking down the financing of Zip2. “My Dad provided 10% of a ~$200k angel funding round much later, but by then risk was reduced & round would’ve happened anyway.”

 

 

[Eirynne Sieyes]

So much emotion and thinly veiled animosity / hatred is being directed toward Musk by some who are suspicious of or who don't share Musk's views. He is wished ill will, is judged and pronounced guilty of negative motivation, is subject to ridicule, etc. 

Is vitriol the vibe we want for this thread? I wonder what this thread would look like if the contempt was missing.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Eirynne Sieyes

[Istelathis]

21 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Is vitriol the vibe we want for this thread?

In this spirit I will say something Musk is better at than anyone in the world - making money.  Also, he promotes a brain to machine interface, and I hope soon we will all be walking around with neural implants that allow us to fully escape into a virtual world - hopefully one that is free.  His thoughts on technology often overlap my own, as I am prone to flights of fancy thinking of a technologically advanced society and am prone to transhumanist views.

He cares about the environment, helped push electric vehicles into significance, and gets people excited about the technology surrounding it.  His role in SpaceX has inspired many regarding space travel, he pushes the limit of technology, often and I mean quite often missing his goal, but always aiming high.  

I see him as a visionary, much like I did Steve Jobs, and Edison, in fact if the two of them had a love child I would imagine it would have been a lot like Elon Musk.  Mind you, I have plenty of vitriol to say about Musk as well, but trying to keep in the spirit of saying nice things about him.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Istelathis

[Blaise Glendevon]

36 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

So much emotion and thinly veiled animosity / hatred is being directed toward Musk by some who are suspicious of or who don't share Musk's views. He is wished ill will, is judged and pronounced guilty of negative motivation, is subject to ridicule, etc. 

Is vitriol the vibe we want for this thread? I wonder what this thread would look like if the contempt was missing.

 

 

What views are those, though?

[Silent Mistwalker]

[Mollymews]

7 hours ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

is always eye-rolling when people draw these kinds of diagrams to present themselves as victims

the actual diagram where E is Elon

       L - - - | E - - R

 L - - - - - - | - E - - - - R 

 

victim blaming tool. Put yourself at the center of the universe and move everybody else to support your narrative
     

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Mollymews
typos

[Arielle Popstar]

30 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

is always eye-rolling when people draw these kinds of diagrams to present themselves as victims

the actual diagram where E is Elon

       L - - - | E - - R

 L - - - - - - | - E - - - - R 

 

victim blaming tool. Put yourself at the center of the universe and move everybody else to support your narrative
     

 

I disagree. I related to what he pointed out as my politics haven't changed from being a liberal but most here see me as conservative and have even been accused of being Q-anon. This all came up recently when I watched a segment of Bill Maher where he did a little routine explaining the exact same thing.:

"Look I haven't changed ... at all. My politics haven't changed. They've changed," said Maher, referring to those on the left of the political aisle.

https://www.newsweek.com/bill-maher-says-liberals-have-changed-rips-left-free-speech-more-1686924

[Lindal Kidd]

6 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

The world is moving to the far right.  We need to do something.

How odd. A lot of folks on the right would say the exact opposite.

Me, I see both the extremists on both sides continuing to move as far to the left, and to the right, as possible, while disparaging those of us who are trying to remain somewhere close to the center.

[Istelathis]

Left and Right doesn't really make sense, because we could be talking about so many things.  In the 80s and 90s it was perfectly fine to ridicule minorities, the LGBT, religions and so on, as was seen often in movies.  Since then, the left has shifted views and no longer finds that acceptable.  If we are talking about the economical views, has very much changed though?

I think in general, when people are constantly talking about being woke, and cancel culture, they are talking about cultural shifts and feel the left has migrated too far.  I think Elon and others just wants to make jokes on the Internet, without having people get upset at them and calling them out for being closed minded.  

Yeah, the left has shifted quite a bit here, as it has been for decades I would think.  That is the nature of the left in the US, it is constantly evolving while the right sits relatively stagnant, slowly following the left at a much more delayed manner.  Fifteen years ago, gay marriage was considered beyond reason and a major political talking point, now it seems most people on either aisle are fine with it.  Who knows what it will be like in another 15 years, Elon might be championing the things he opposes now and claiming he was at the forefront of it.  The new cultural left will still have shifted by that point, and he may be opposed to that along with many of the people who at this time consider themselves left leaning.  

In this way, I think the left and right have shifted more to the left in general.  

Edited April 30, 2022 by Istelathis

[Mollymews]

15 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

"Look I haven't changed ... at all. My politics haven't changed. They've changed," said Maher, referring to those on the left of the political aisle.

consider

what is a centrist ?

a way to think about an answer to this question

a centrist is a person who endeavours to do the best they can to provide for themselves and their dependents.  And to do the best they can to empower those less fortunate than themselves to do the same

this tenet doesn't move, no matter how many people fall on each side. It remains the centrist belief

what moves is the number of people on the line of empowering those less fortunate than themselves. The further to the left, the more empowerment we give to those less fortunate than us.  The further to the right, the less empowerment we give to those less fortunate than us

for example: workplace economics. The more we pay our workers relative to what we pay ourselves, the more to the left of this centrist ideal we are. Conversely the less we pay our workers relative to what we pay ourselves the more to the right we are

another example: democracy. The more we empower others to vote, the more to the left we are. The less we empower others to vote, the more to the right we are

 

when someone says to me that I am raving looney lefty then I understand that they mean relative to themselves. Which people who put themselves at the center of the universe do, they relate everything to themselves. And I treat what they say with this understanding. Knowing that I am still in the same position relative to the centrist ideal

[Scylla Rhiadra]

35 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

Left and Right doesn't really make sense, because we could be talking about so many things.  In the 80s and 90s it was perfectly fine to ridicule minorities, the LGBT, religions and so on, as was seen often in movies.  Since then, the left has shifted views and no longer finds that acceptable.  If we are talking about the economical views, has very much changed though?

I think in general, when people are constantly talking about being woke, and cancel culture, they are talking about cultural shifts and feel the left has migrated too far.  I think Elon and others just wants to make jokes on the Internet, without having people get upset at them and calling them out for being closed minded.  

Yeah, the left has shifted quite a bit here, as it has been for decades I would think.  That is the nature of the left in the US, it is constantly evolving while the right sits relatively stagnant, slowly following the left at a much more delayed manner.  Fifteen years ago, gay marriage was considered beyond reason and a major political talking point, now it seems most people on either aisle are fine with it.  Who knows what it will be like in another 15 years, Elon might be championing the things he opposes now and claiming he was at the forefront of it.  The new cultural left will still have shifted by that point, and he may be opposed to that along with many of the people who at this time consider themselves left leaning.  

In this way, I think the left and right have shifted more to the left in general.  

To a degree, this encapsulates quite nicely the progress of history.

History is on the side of the Left.

I don't mean that in a partisan way. I don't mean that "The Left are the good guys, and the good guys always win."

I mean that, literally and demonstrably, the history of the West over the last several hundred years can be characterized in some measure as the gradual and incremental adoption of the programs of the Left, and their assimilation into the mainstream. The development of an economic system based upon capital, the abolition of slavery, the broadening of the democratic franchise, the development of trade unions, the slow but certain accrual of rights to women, the adoption of social welfare programs -- all of these were, in their times, the projects of the Left.

And, of course, in time, they have all become the position of the centre, as the Left shifts ever leftward, championing new causes that will, if history is any indication, one day also become the accepted norms of our culture.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Lindal Kidd said:

How odd. A lot of folks on the right would say the exact opposite.

Me, I see both the extremists on both sides continuing to move as far to the left, and to the right, as possible, while disparaging those of us who are trying to remain somewhere close to the center.

It always puts me in mind of that old college cheer from back in my father's college days, sometime in the 40s.

And wouldn't you know it, I found it on YouTube, except they are using "lean" instead of "swing". Never thought I'd hear it again. lol

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Silent Mistwalker

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

So much emotion and thinly veiled animosity / hatred is being directed toward Musk by some who are suspicious of or who don't share Musk's views. He is wished ill will, is judged and pronounced guilty of negative motivation, is subject to ridicule, etc. 

Is vitriol the vibe we want for this thread? I wonder what this thread would look like if the contempt was missing.

 

 

Musk's "views" are indeed, as Blaise has suggested, relevant to the case.

As to Musk as a person -- well, my interest in him is roughly on par with how much I care about Kim Kardashian, i.e., not at all. A great deal of what I've read about him, and by him, suggest to me that he's a fairly unpleasant person, but . . . so what. The world is full of unpleasant people, doing unpleasant things to others.

(On the other hand, the flood of racist and misogynist bile that has been heaped upon Vijaya Gadde, the Twitter executive criticized by Musk, tells me more than I want to know about the character of at least a portion his fanbois.)

I don't believe in "heroes." Superman and Captain America aren't going to "save" the US, and make up for the shortcomings of its democratic and civic institutions. Neither will Musk. It's got nothing to do with his character: the issues and problematics surrounding "free speech," on the one hand, and a civil behaviour on the other, are systemic problems. They can't be solved by a "great man" (or woman): the solutions, in turn, need to be systemic.

Musk's purchase of Twitter may assist some, and make others less comfortable. But it isn't going to "fix" anything. That requires the work of us all.

[Istelathis]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

History is on the side of the Left.

It appears to be that way, and history has been repeating itself for quite a while now.

 

[Blaise Glendevon]

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I disagree. I related to what he pointed out as my politics haven't changed from being a liberal but most here see me as conservative and have even been accused of being Q-anon. This all came up recently when I watched a segment of Bill Maher where he did a little routine explaining the exact same thing.:

"Look I haven't changed ... at all. My politics haven't changed. They've changed," said Maher, referring to those on the left of the political aisle.

https://www.newsweek.com/bill-maher-says-liberals-have-changed-rips-left-free-speech-more-1686924

The only way in which the discourse has changed is that now there are active actual left leaning voices due to the influence of social media. Democrats and liberals by any other countries political scale are center right. Well, on the other hand, social media has engaged the lowest forms of right-wing thought and amplified them through algorithms. If people think that you are farther right than you are, maybe you should look around and check the company you keep.

[Akane Nacht]

15 hours ago, Sukubia Scarmon said:

I still f****** hate the superrich. 

made me think of a quote from Fiddler on the Roof

[HarrisonMcKenzie]

Could someone explain why everyone has their knickers in a bunch over this? I genuinely don't know what the problem is? Is Musk a bag of crap? Or do people just hate him because he's rich? What is the actual problem here?

[Coffee Pancake]

9 hours ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

How do you think Elon became a billionaire?

Theft.

He is not some magical super human doing all the things, spends almost all his time flying about on a private jet or in meetings (and we all know how productive those are!).

People are grouped together to make a thing, a company so to speak - space rockets, cars, spoons, whatever - the fruits of their labor generate wealth and value, and they take home only a small fixed sum.

Specifically when it comes to space rockets .. maybe you should take a moment to see where the bulk of the funding comes from. Could it be tax payers? Are we buying rockets or making Space Daddy richer?

Chris Kempczinski is the CEO on McDonalds. He's worth just shy of $18 million. Does he work harder than a McEmployee on (up to) $13 an hour?

How about all the stuff that's made abroad for pennies on the dollar, by hiring people in countries with shockingly low standards or labour protection and wages. Don't we have a word for that? Aren't we really just moving the whole unsightly business out of sight, out of mind?

 

It's theft, robbing people of the proportionate rewards their efforts generate. Completely legal theft on a scale that boggles the mind.

 

Sure, you can argue that's how it's always been and that's just how the world works, are you really ok with that, is that really the best we can hope to accomplish?

Our entire society is built around modern serfs toiling to keep the lord in his manner.

[Bree Giffen]

10 minutes ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

Could someone explain why everyone has their knickers in a bunch over this? I genuinely don't know what the problem is? Is Musk a bag of crap? Or do people just hate him because he's rich? What is the actual problem here?

The whole issue isn't with Elon Musk at all. The problem is that Twitter banned Donald Trump in January 2021 and everyone is afraid he will come back. Not just to Twitter but to the presidency. This is what the billionaires are afraid of.

Joe Biden isn't really all there right now. Kamala Harris is an embarrassment. Pete Buttigieg is an empty suit. And my girl Hillary is probably not going to run again. It's too bad Obama can't run for a third term. 

[Aethelwine]

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

It appears to be that way, and history has been repeating itself for quite a while now.

 

And yet your Representatives have been moving to the right out of synch with the shift in views of society becoming more tolerant.

This study is a few years old but shows the shift :

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/03/10/the-polarization-in-todays-congress-has-roots-that-go-back-decades/

You would not have had Republicans so openly repeating Russian propoganda, or taking their talking points off Daily Stormer in the past as they do now.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Aethelwine

[Blaise Glendevon]

47 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

The whole issue isn't with Elon Musk at all. The problem is that Twitter banned Donald Trump in January 2021 and everyone is afraid he will come back. Not just to Twitter but to the presidency. This is what the billionaires are afraid of.

Joe Biden isn't really all there right now. Kamala Harris is an embarrassment. Pete Buttigieg is an empty suit. And my girl Hillary is probably not going to run again. It's too bad Obama can't run for a third term. 

The problem is that Elon Musk's idea of "free speech" is coddling neo-Nazis and transphobic bigots and insurrectionists while stroking his own ego and *****posting like a 4chan reject.

[Istelathis]

19 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

And yet your Representatives have been moving to the right out of synch with the shift in views of society becoming more tolerant.

Well, that is concerning.  It would certainly be quite the shift to go back to a period of time where women were considered second class citizens, where non-whites were considered property, where we became relatively little more than serfs - but my faith in humanity is not all too significant.

A great way to accomplish this would be through social media though.  Imagine if social media was our demise, what a cruel fate that would be.