Requesting an LGBTQ+ sub forum.

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Lining up arbitrary preconditions is not an argument against making an LGBTQ+ sub forum.

I don't have a problem with LL moderation, I'm seeking a space on the forums where it will be easier for mods to keep LGBTQ+ topics legitimately on topic, rather than every single thread we have getting dragged into culture war arguments with people who have no skin in the game and it "technically" being fine.

But see you have no idea who "has no skin in the game" Just because they don't present themselves as LGBTQ+ on the forum or even inworld doesn't mean that they are not part of that community.  

A thread is a thread is a thread. Moving them into a sub forum won't make it easier to moderate nor should the rules be different for those threads than any other thread on the forum. Off topic posts are removed from the general discussion area when the mods see fit. I would not expect that will change.  

Basically what you are saying is that the moderation team isn't doing their job to your satisfaction. Will only LGBTQ+ moderators be allow to moderate this particular sub forum? 

 

[Coffee Pancake]

As I have said, I have no problem with the forum moderation.

I'm not sure how many different ways I can say the same thing. An LGBTQ+ forum would create a more specific topic under which to discuss and make much of the usual derailment and negativity plainly off topic.

[Love Zhaoying]

19 minutes ago, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

Aren't jails "safe spaces" ?! 😜

Nope, they are very dangerous and violent.

[Kathlen Onyx]

4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

As I have said, I have no problem with the forum moderation.

I'm not sure how many different ways I can say the same thing. An LGBTQ+ forum would create a more specific topic under which to discuss and make much of the usual derailment and negativity plainly off topic.

But no one seems to have an issue with someone posting a kitten meme and then having 15 posts after that all about kittens in a thread, which is clearly off topic.  Which btw, is totally irritating and unnecessary.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Sam1 Bellisserian

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

But no one seems to have an issue with someone posting a kitten meme and then having 15 posts after that all about kittens in a thread which is clearly off topic.  Which btw, is totally irritating and unnecessary.

We have a different thread for pet peeves, this isn't that.

[Kathlen Onyx]

3 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

We have a different thread for pet peeves, this isn't that.

I must have missed the "moderator" behind your name.

[PekeNL]

On 4/13/2022 at 11:48 PM, Coffee Pancake said:

Why not both ?

The former: Sure, why not! Always good to have a bit of a place where people can ask questions related to it.

The latter: For a group that wants to feel included and normalized amongst others, you sure seem to make it a sport to segregate yourselves from the masses.

 

[Sparkle Bunny]

26 minutes ago, PekeNL said:

The latter: For a group that wants to feel included and normalized amongst others, you sure seem to make it a sport to segregate yourselves from the masses.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just don't know how poorly that came across in English.

[Paul Hexem]

10 hours ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Is there going to be some kind of "vetting" process to be able to post in this sub forum?

That's my question, too.

 

9 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I'm confident we could have a welcoming and friendly space for LGBTQ discussions with clearer moderation.

The upset in this thread alone demonstrates why such a space would be a valuable addition to this board, they are put out that they wouldn't be able to continue contributing to LGBTQ threads in the manner they are used to. Simple as that.

7 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The separate nature of the LGBTQ+ forum would hopefully bring pause to those wishing to stir the pot by "just asking questions" or worse, such posts would be explicitly off topic and easier to report as such. Lifting the veil on "innocent" concern trolling.

At the very least it would negate the posts questioning people's validity as a jumping off point for further derailment.

Again, how would you keep people out?

 

The idea itself is fine, but if we're not moderating the existing threads, why do we think a dedicated sub forum would be moderated better or differently?

[Moondira]

15 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I wasn't gonna say anything cos whether or not there is a dedicated sub-forum won't affect my life either way, but that comment really burned my britches. 

You know why there is "no hetero pride"?  Cos we're not allowed to have any!  Its "-phobic" or "-ist" to be proud of being white, proud of being hetero, proud of being a woman.  So we're not allowed to be proud of who we are.

 

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

Actually,  there was a Straight Pride parade!

Edited April 15, 2022 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Rowan Amore]

And of course, removing sock puppets is no easy task.

[Solar Legion]

I find it telling that some of the very reasons (in general) such a section has been requested, have cropped up in the very thread wherein the request has been made ...

No one has suggested that there will be any sort of direct gatekeeping within the requested sub-forum. It has been made clear that the requested sub-forum would put heavier emphasis on a handful of existing rules.

It is not difficult to track, understand or figure out.

[Codex Alpha]

Frankly I miss the days when I would engage or not engage with people in Second Life based on their character, what they were building, what they shared, and how we came together with similar interests.

All of this social justice and wearing one's anything on one's sleeve destroys all that and puts things inbetween me and the other person that hadn't been an issue in the past, and in all reality and truth is completely unrelated to Second Life in any way.

Second Life is a virtual world where you can come and play, and join communities you want to be part of, and just enjoy yourself. Now all it is is some cultural war, political division and 'saving the world' all the while trying to convince the Lindens that evil trolls, griefers and harassers are rampant in SL and that they need to be rescued.

I watched this go to 100% on Sansar, and suddenly one day I'm just creating and sharing and discussing - the next I'm some target of some elimination campaign because apparently I said something to so-and-so (still don't know what years later) and that's all it took to villainize and call to put my head on a spike. All for the crime of speaking my opinion no doubt - and in no way wanting to hurt, limit, destroy or limit anyone's experience.

I find all of this hypocritical and disturbing, and I've seen the damage that this sort of thing can do to a community. As we can see it divides everyone right down the middle, and IMO Second Life is not the place to be waging a 'save the world' campaign.

FFS, all I want to do is see what you guys are building and creating so I can come and visit and admire and learn from and share my own - all this stuff just destroys the SL experience for me and many others (who I speak for but are long gone from their own similar issues with the platform(s) ).

If I were to believe some people on these forums, SL is crawling with armies of harassing, extremely hostile individuals and that they need to be stamped out. Sorry, haven't seen it, but probably because I have pretty much removed myself from engaging with people I don't know anymore - as you never know what's going to trigger them in a conversation nowadays.

The result will be a chilling effect and will grow as it had and did on the other platform, and people were scared of saying the wrong thing, or the over-babysitting done by staff, and the constant social justice agendas being put upon them - with threats of ostracizing at the least, with threats of banning from their hard work in personal worlds and their contributions to the marketplace. All of that is not fun and it needs to stop.

Whether SL gives you a forum or not I could care less, but I'm not sure why there appears to be some growing sentiment that there is some war to be had on Second Life against some enemy, and that one needs a 'safe space' to repeat this attitude - somewhere to join together and be some 'force of good' in Second Life. It's all very exhausting and frustrating to read.

I hope the Lindens just stay out of it altogether, and moderate as they always have, regardless of the topic.

If you need such a safe space, many communities use Discord or other internet forum software where they can moderate their own rooms, limit, silence and ban anyone they like - and with no dependence on Lindens to discipline others on their behalf.

Just thought I'd put my two cents in, but there is no way I'm getting suckered again into this silly war.

"If we restricted everyone who everyone wanted to restrict, we'd have no one left on the platform" - Phillip Rosedale (HIFI) "We can't keep up with the ban list, we can't keep up with managing them... so we're going to leave it up to you to do so - in your own worlds.. hosted by you." (Paraphrased but famous famous words)

This thing we're seeing in this topic and others on the SL forums as of late, is what kills a platform.

What unites a platform is keeping the experience on SL on topic, where it was just fun to meet new people before they wore all their anxieties and issues on their sleeve - and made it the whole of their personality available to the world...

[Persephone Emerald]

10 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

And I'm feeling very harmed at being called "cis gendered" (which I find highly offensive) in someone's opinion up the thread, but ya know what...I put on  my big girl panties and sucked it up, which is what grown ups do.  

Btw, shouldn't the term be cis-gender? It's not like somebody went and made anyone cis?

[Coffee Pancake]

37 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

I find it telling that some of the very reasons (in general) such a section has been requested, have cropped up in the very thread wherein the request has been made ...

Such posts were fully anticipated and only help demonstrate why we need an LGBTQ+ forum.

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Coffee Pancake

[Kathlen Onyx]

47 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

I find it telling that some of the very reasons (in general) such a section has been requested, have cropped up in the very thread wherein the request has been made ...

No one has suggested that there will be any sort of direct gatekeeping within the requested sub-forum. It has been made clear that the requested sub-forum would put heavier emphasis on a handful of existing rules.

It is not difficult to track, understand or figure out.

11 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Such posts were fully anticipated and only help demonstrate why we need an LGBTQ+ forum.

 

Please do give direct examples where anyone in this thread posted anything against the LGBTQ+ community.....in this thread. Not against the sub forum but against the community or members of the community itself.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Sam1 Bellisserian

[Solar Legion]

Ah yes, and now we get to the exact point such "discourse" was heading for.

Sod. Off.

[Kathlen Onyx]

Just now, Solar Legion said:

Ah yes, and now we get to the exact point such "discourse" was heading for.

Sod. Off.

See you can't give examples. Just saying it doesn't make it so.  Cheers and that's the third time you so nicely told me to shut up. I won't give you the same response back.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

24 minutes ago, entity0x said:

Frankly I miss the days when I would engage or not engage with people in Second Life based on their character, what they were building, what they shared, and how we came together with similar interests.

Not sure what you mean. I don't miss that at all, because I do this every single time I log in. That's how I build my friends list, in fact.

 

26 minutes ago, entity0x said:

FFS, all I want to do is see what you guys are building and creating so I can come and visit and admire and learn from and share my own 

I do this regularly, too. It's why I'm in stores checking out the new products so often (though visiting photogenic and art sims is quite nice, too).

Not sure I quite understand what's stopping you from doing that. Aside from the occasional amazing place disappearing at random and causing us to have to clear out our landmark folder over and over, that is. 

[Solar Legion]

There is a difference between "can't", "won't" and "can't be bothered" - this is the latter two.

Someone else can deal with your need for examples and such oh so specific needs for evidence - I do not have the patience to deal with such anymore - at all, ever.

[Coffee Pancake]

12 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Please do give direct examples where anyone in this thread posted anything against the LGBTQ+ community.....in this thread. Not against the sub forum but against the community or members of the community itself.

This thread is explicitly for requesting an LGBTQ+ forum, I believe you have made your opposition crystal clear.

[Kathlen Onyx]

3 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This thread is explicitly for requesting an LGBTQ+ forum, I believe you have made your opposition crystal clear.

and you have made your point crystal clear as well. So maybe this thread has run it's course now.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

and you have made your point crystal clear as well. So maybe this thread has run it's course now.

As the person who started this thread, I do hope so. This is proving to be a microcosm of the disruption that occurs in every single one of our threads and frankly it's exhausting.

I absolutely disagree with the argument that LL moderation isn't up to the task, as though that is some kind of open threat to attack every single post in the new forum.

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

LL moderation isn't up to the task

Well, they really aren't as has been shown numerous times over the weekends.

I hope they do make a sub forum, I hope it does stay exactly how you'd like, I hope people don't post there just to stir the pot but...people will be people.