Requesting an LGBTQ+ sub forum.

[sirhc DeSantis]

1 hour ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I wasn't gonna say anything cos whether or not there is a dedicated sub-forum won't affect my life either way, but that comment really burned my britches. 

You know why there is "no hetero pride"?  Cos we're not allowed to have any!  Its "-phobic" or "-ist" to be proud of being white, proud of being hetero, proud of being a woman.  So we're not allowed to be proud of who we are.

Well now. Rather than attempt my own sometimes unclear take I will just list some points from the Gay Times (link below). Some of these can be debated but as a start its a good place. And if this somewhat slow on the uptake white cis hetero 58 yr old bloke can get their head round it - so can anyone.

Straight cis people :
1. ... aren’t being murdered for being straight.2. ... can travel without fear of being straight.
3. ... have always been able to legally marry.
4. ... have never been jailed for being straight.
5. ... aren’t called ‘sinners’ for being straight.
6. ... don’t face ‘heterophobia’ in the workplace.
7. ... see themselves across all popular culture.
8. ... don’t have to correct people on pronouns.
9. ... aren’t denied medical help for being straight.

If people feelthe need for a place here I am not going to oppose it. ( PS 'proud' to I hope be counted as an 'ally' )

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/nine-reasons-why-there-doesnt-need-to-be-a-straight-pride/

 

[StarlanderGoods]

This thread itself is an example of why an LGBTQ+ subforum is needed.

Not as a place to isolate LGBTQ+ people, but to have a place where the threads are not going to be raided by the anti-LGBTQ+ brigade. (and the white pride brigade too it seems)

[Maitimo]

For those who want a hetero subforum, those are already present and listed here: https://community.secondlife.com/forums/  All forums and literally everywhere in the entire world is by default a hetero space unless specifically designated as something else. For those who want a hetero-only subforum, where LGBT+ topics are completely banned, I think you'll find that once an LGBT_+ subforum is set up then every single other subforum will fall into that category. So we will have one and the hetero community will have about sixty. 

Which brings me to my main concern - as a member of the LGBT+ community I feel that making a subforum for us is a little "ghetto-ising". It makes me feel a little like we're being shoved into a dark corner where hetero people don't have to worry about accidentally seeing us. Hide us out of sight, in the dark, ban the mention of LGBT topics elsewhere in the forum... 

I would much prefer that moderators took a firmer stance across the whole forum against ALL TYPES of trolling, aggression and negative talk against all minorities, not just LGBT minorities. 

[Coffee Pancake]

3 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

You know why there is "no hetero pride"?  Cos we're not allowed to have any!  Its "-phobic" or "-ist" to be proud of being white, proud of being hetero, proud of being a woman.

You're allowed to throw any pride party you like. 1st Amendment guarantees it.

Straight pride. White Pride. Chromosome Pride. Able bodied Pride.

LGBTQ+ Pride events and the members of the community celebrating draw considerable criticism, I'm sure your celebration would be no different.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

9 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

Which brings me to my main concern - as a member of the LGBT+ community I feel that making a subforum for us is a little "ghetto-ising". It makes me feel a little like we're being shoved into a dark corner where hetero people don't have to worry about accidentally seeing us. Hide us out of sight, in the dark, ban the mention of LGBT topics elsewhere in the forum... 

Agreed, however the history of our discussions constantly getting taken over and derailed into discussing the LGBTQ+ question/agenda and subsequently locked has a broadly silencing effect. 

We don't have many threads as people don't feel safe starting them.

I would rather a corner of the forums than no forum at all.

 

[Alwin Alcott]

30 minutes ago, StarlanderGoods said:

This thread itself is an example of why an LGBTQ+ subforum is needed.

Not as a place to isolate LGBTQ+ people, but to have a place where the threads are not going to be raided by the anti-LGBTQ+ brigade. (and the white pride brigade too it seems)

you don't tollerate others while you claim a place for who in fact?... just your yay people?.. there are many nay people in the groups you talk about 

[Coffee Pancake]

5 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

you don't tollerate others while you claim a place for who in fact?... just your yay people?.. there are many nay people in the groups you talk about 

There are so many LGBTQ+ topics I would like to see on these forums as they relate to members of the queer community's experiences in SL. We have some amazing stories and experiences to share, SL has been truly life changing in so many ways for so many of us, it's a core reason for our continued patronage of this platform.

I would like to have those discussions and not have to spend 90% of the threads justifying the mere existence of LGBTQ+ people.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Coffee Pancake

[Theresa Tennyson]

4 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I wasn't gonna say anything cos whether or not there is a dedicated sub-forum won't affect my life either way, but that comment really burned my britches. 

You know why there is "no hetero pride"?  Cos we're not allowed to have any!  Its "-phobic" or "-ist" to be proud of being white, proud of being hetero, proud of being a woman.  So we're not allowed to be proud of who we are.

In the musical "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum," Hero, a young man, has told Pseudolus, the family slave, about the girl he's fallen in love with. Pseudolus isn't impressed:

Pseudolus: "A common courtesan in the House of Lycus?"

Hero: "Is that bad?"

Pseudolus" "There's no way of making it look like an accomplishment..."

There are some things that being proud of are basically being proud of a participation trophy.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Theresa Tennyson

[Luna Bliss]

4 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I wasn't gonna say anything cos whether or not there is a dedicated sub-forum won't affect my life either way, but that comment really burned my britches. 

You know why there is "no hetero pride"?  Cos we're not allowed to have any!  Its "-phobic" or "-ist" to be proud of being white, proud of being hetero, proud of being a woman.  So we're not allowed to be proud of who we are.

Why would anyone need a hetero-pride focus? Society has never said heterosexual people are bad due to their opposite sex preference, nor is there an ongoing battle to take civil rights from heterosexuals. Groups who are viewed as 'less than' need to focus on pride to maintain self-esteem, because society is trying to tear them down via placing them in an inferior position and taking the civil rights away that they themselves enjoy by default.  To focus on pride for heterosexuals would be like insisting we have a Pride day for those who have noses. Sure, go ahead and have a Nose Pride Day, or a Heterosexual Pride Day. Nobody is stopping you. But it makes no sense given the actual reason we have these Pride days in the first place.

[StarlanderGoods]

Dont take the bait

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

Well now. Rather than attempt my own sometimes unclear take I will just list some points from the Gay Times (link below). Some of these can be debated but as a start its a good place. And if this somewhat slow on the uptake white cis hetero 58 yr old bloke can get their head round it - so can anyone.

Straight cis people :
1. ... aren’t being murdered for being straight.2. ... can travel without fear of being straight.
3. ... have always been able to legally marry.
4. ... have never been jailed for being straight.
5. ... aren’t called ‘sinners’ for being straight.
6. ... don’t face ‘heterophobia’ in the workplace.
7. ... see themselves across all popular culture.
8. ... don’t have to correct people on pronouns.
9. ... aren’t denied medical help for being straight.

If people feelthe need for a place here I am not going to oppose it. ( PS 'proud' to I hope be counted as an 'ally' )

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/nine-reasons-why-there-doesnt-need-to-be-a-straight-pride/

 

Thanks! That means a lot coming from you, a self-described "white cis hetero 58 yr old bloke".
And great list demonstrating the disadvantages for those in the LGBTQ+ group.
I would like to add another, and that is the disadvantages encountered when marriage rights are stripped away, and this is what is being planned now in our US courts for LGBTQ+ individuals.  There are " ...1,138 statutory provisions[1] in which marital status is a factor in determining benefits, rights, and privileges".

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/marriage-rights-benefits-30190.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States

I could list many heartbreaking effects stemming from taking away these civil rights. One of the worse effects I learned of was the case of a woman who was dying in hospital bed in the deep South, and her long-time same-sex partner was prevented from being with her in those last moments because only 'family' was allowed into the hospital room. And if you aren't married then by law you are not considered 'family', and her prejudiced parents took advantage of this egregious law to go against their daughter's wishes to be with her partner during her last moments.

[Kathlen Onyx]

5 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

A dedicated sub-forum would be a "clue" for those same people. The sub-forum name may, if they notice it, help them to understand that they are in a minority there. This in turn, may help them realize that their perceived "power" has no meaning there. That their rhetoric is pointless and will be ignored at best. I can think of at least 2 Bob Dylan songs with lyrics that apply: Ballad of a Thin Man, and Like a Rolling Stone.

I would think though that you would want your views and concerns all out in the open instead of hiding behind some sub forum where no one is allowed that doesn't have the same opinion of you. How would you effect change by doing that? Also, if you really think that a sub--forum will stop people from posting in it you are mistaken.  The part I bolded can't even be accomplished in the General Discussion forum. What makes you think it will work in a sub-forum? You can't control other people's opinions. Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't make them a 'phobe.  If you want others to listen to you then you have to be willing to do the same. YOU control your reactions to what someone says.  Someone can be totally opposed to something and still respect others.  I personally find abortion wrong and immoral but I would never advocate for people not having the choice to make that decision for themselves or want them to be discriminated because of it. I think creating a sub-forum will have the exact opposite effect that you are hoping for. 

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 hour ago, StarlanderGoods said:

This thread itself is an example of why an LGBTQ+ subforum is needed.

Not as a place to isolate LGBTQ+ people, but to have a place where the threads are not going to be raided by the anti-LGBTQ+ brigade. (and the white pride brigade too it seems)

BUT see you don't get a choice as to who posts in a forum. Is there going to be some kind of "vetting" process to be able to post in this sub forum? Will you have to present some sort of proof that you are LGBTQ+?

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Will you have to present some sort of proof that you are LGBTQ+?

A Gaydar device is being constructed by a member of the community as we speak.

[Maitimo]

You know I'm starting to think that "No forum at all" would be the best thing all round.

This thread has proved that an LGBT+ subforum will actually be worse than the current situation.

Congratulations to all the homophbes and haters here, you just scored another internet point. I hope it brings you the great joy that you don't deserve.

[StarlanderGoods]

3 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

BUT see you don't get a choice as to who posts in a forum. Is there going to be some kind of "vetting" process to be able to post in this sub forum? Will you have to present some sort of proof that you are LGBTQ+?

You have to show the ID card, where it proves that you have succesfully completed a tour in the reeducation camps. Is that what you wanted to hear?

Because the real answer is so much simpler, it would just be a place where moderation keeps LGBTQ+ topics from derailing into culture war stuff, simple as that.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

BUT see you don't get a choice as to who posts in a forum. Is there going to be some kind of "vetting" process to be able to post in this sub forum? Will you have to present some sort of proof that you are LGBTQ+?

But seriously, Sam1, I propose anyone can post there. All I would want excluded would be those coming in saying LGBTQ+ concerns have no validity.  We have witnessed the most bizarre claims to invalidate LGBTQ+ concerns throughout history. Most recently on the forum the excuses to invalidate our concerns have been about Ukraine crisis and warzones, the government, the abuse someone personally encountered that was not related to LGBTQ+ issues, and a "concern" over not having a hetero pride day.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

I really like this idea. With LL's announcement about their new Community Pages feature, I think this could be a nice addition to the forum. Lemme just toss out a few quick ideas of what this subforum could be used for, in case any Lindens happen on by...

 

LGBTQ+ events (shopping/Pride/etc.)

LGBTQ+ social events

Destinations and ads for new/existing hangouts places that are LGBTQ+-friendly like beaches, clubs, social gathering spots

To feature business owners in the LGBTQ+ community (like they did on the Black Culture community page)

LGBTQ+ art and photography (in-world galleries, gallery events and openings, requests for gallery/exhibition submissions, photo contests, etc. etc.)

Fashion, styling, and shopping advice for those who use bodies and body mods/addons that are often difficult to shop for (lookin' at you, V-Tech!)

Roleplay/RP sims

In-world community groups/support groups & directories

 

Yup, lots of this stuff could just be filtered into the existing places on the current forum, but I agree that having a place where we could focus on the topics themselves would be kind of nice.

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 minute ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

BUT see you don't get a choice as to who posts in a forum. Is there going to be some kind of "vetting" process to be able to post in this sub forum? Will you have to present some sort of proof that you are LGBTQ+?

You know quite well that no such proof will be required. When I haul my telescope out to my local amateur astronomy club's summer star parties, I needn't show proof of membership. Everybody is welcome. I can, however, be fairly certain I won't be bothered by the drunken moon landing deniers who've nearly poured their beers into that telescope at the county fair while looking in the wrong end and asking if they'll see aliens.

[Kathlen Onyx]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

All I would want excluded would be those coming in saying LGBTQ+ concerns have no validity.  

This sounds like a moderation issue not a sub-forum issue.  Again, you can't control other people's opinions.  

[Kathlen Onyx]

21 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

Congratulations to all the homophbes and haters here, you just scored another internet point. I hope it brings you the great joy that you don't deserve.

This just is an online version of a temper tantrum. You can't even have a civil discussion about a sub forum without calling people opposed to the idea homophobes and haters.  No where in this thread has anyone stated they are either.  

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

All I would want excluded would be those coming in saying LGBTQ+ concerns have no validity.  

This sounds like a moderation issue not a sub-forum issue.  Again, you can't control other people's opinions.  

Opinions that harm other people should be discouraged.  Marginalized groups should be protected.

A sub-forum with rules clearly stated at the top would require less moderation, and would be less work for the moderators and cost-effective for LL.

[Silent Mistwalker]

5 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I wasn't gonna say anything cos whether or not there is a dedicated sub-forum won't affect my life either way, but that comment really burned my britches. 

You know why there is "no hetero pride"?  Cos we're not allowed to have any!  Its "-phobic" or "-ist" to be proud of being white, proud of being hetero, proud of being a woman.  So we're not allowed to be proud of who we are.

Welcome to the world white people have subjected nonwhites to for hundreds of years. Not very pleasant is it.

[Lewis Luminos]

19 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

This sounds like a moderation issue not a sub-forum issue.  Again, you can't control other people's opinions.  

I agree its a moderation issue, not a subforum issue.

The moderation here is absolutely atrocious. All kinds of trolling, abuse and hate speech absolutely get a pass here every single time as long as there's no actual "naughty words" in it, you know, the ones that get *****s.  But as soon as you say a word that would make your grandmother giggle, okay that's the boot for you. Oh and god forbid you go off topic and start talking about cake or kittens. That's so evil it gets threads locked in an instant.

How about moderating where it's needed, and not where it isn't? Novel idea that, but the mods here would never manage it.

There is no point making an LGBT subforum here. It wold be a thousand times worse than the worst threads you've ever seen.

[Luna Bliss]

17 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

This just is an online version of a temper tantrum. You can't even have a civil discussion about a sub forum without calling people opposed to the idea homophobes and haters.  No where in this thread has anyone stated they are either.  

At what point does a person's insensitivity toward others become so severe that we might accurately call it a form of hatred?  Not saying this is you -- I don't know you.  But this is an important point to consider. People don't have to claim hatred out loud to be haters...often they only turn their head the other way and ignore the plight of others due to their self-centered selfishness.