Let's Hate Windows 11

[Manifold Destiny]

Don't switch to Windows 11! (yet)

I'm having all sorts of issues running SL using my firestorm viewer, such as:

1. There's a keyboard delay/mouse delay that can get as bad as a sec or two between button clicks.  Really terrible for combat (the solution is uninstalling ALL your video drivers and reinstalling standard windows video drivers)

2. The menu bars on top and toolbar buttons won't both stay on the screen.  Sometimes, you can't get either.  You have to keep minimizing and maximizing the screen for the top bars to reappear.  It's a mess.

3. The Windows menu autohide only works sometime - so it blocks the bottom SL toolbar buttons.

UGH, what a pain...

[Ardy Lay]

13 hours ago, Manifold Destiny said:

Don't switch to Windows 11! (yet)

I'm having all sorts of issues running SL using my firestorm viewer, such as:

1. There's a keyboard delay/mouse delay that can get as bad as a sec or two between button clicks.  Really terrible for combat (the solution is uninstalling ALL your video drivers and reinstalling standard windows video drivers)

2. The menu bars on top and toolbar buttons won't both stay on the screen.  Sometimes, you can't get either.  You have to keep minimizing and maximizing the screen for the top bars to reappear.  It's a mess.

3. The Windows menu autohide only works sometime - so it blocks the bottom SL toolbar buttons.

UGH, what a pain...

I have been using Windows 11 with Second Life Viewer with no issues like those.

[Sprout Evergarden]

if you have an AMD cpu or graphics card stay away from win 11 for now https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/13/22723998/windows-11-update-amd-ryzen-cpu-performance-worse

I just moved back to 10 because 3 fps is not a good time

 

as far as os wars I use all three. Mac OS as my desktop and laptop OS, Windows PC with steam local streaming  so I can play my favorite games at my Mac (this lets me keep the hot game PC that is doing the heavy lifting for the games in the basement where heat management is easier and also keeps my office comfortable) low TDP M1 Macs are great for the cooling bill and they run nice and quiet so I can concentrate on my work

I also keep a small business class like the one pictured Running linux with a security hardened kernel minimal software and a hardened web browser that tosses it's cookies when closed. I use for things like shopping online banking online or any other online business where secruity or cross website tracking is a concern. I should also mention this machine is also ran headless and I use a Remote Desktop protocall to access it as well (that way I only have to use one monitor for everything)  

I also use BSD server for network attached storage. this also runs a linux vm that serves as my downloads sandbox (all files and programs are downloaded to this VM first be scanned for viruses and worms before it sees my real computers. this too is also in the basement

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Atosuria Daviau

[Sprout Evergarden]

On 10/1/2021 at 3:24 PM, Coffee Pancake said:

Easy solution that wont require you to figure out how to make Linux work on your desktop and fight to get GPU drivers working or running SL -> Stay on Windows 10.

Installing Graphics cards in Line is not that hard for example if you have a AMD GPU your golden the drivers are in the OS thanks to AMD working with the linux people to get there hardware supported Natively for Nvidia GPUs it can be slightly harder and by harder I mean double click on "other drivers" Program and let the wizard that launches download and install the driver for you 

[Coffee Pancake]

3 hours ago, Atosuria Daviau said:

Installing Graphics cards in Line is not that hard for example if you have a AMD GPU your golden the drivers are in the OS thanks to AMD working with the linux people to get there hardware supported Natively for Nvidia GPUs it can be slightly harder and by harder I mean double click on "other drivers" Program and let the wizard that launches download and install the driver for you 

As I have mentioned several times, installing the drivers isn't my problem. That's easy. (I'm a seasoned Linux poweruser who till recently had been using it exclusively since the mid 2000s). My GPU died, I built a whole new system around Ryzen 7, x570 & Gigabyte RTX2060 and foolishly presumed it would all just work (and be a nice upgrade from the previous machine).

The problem comes when trying to get something approaching a performant usable desktop experience. I am not prepared to put up with screen tearing, poor video playback or waiting for applications to repaint (you know, basic stuff). Obviously I twiddled all the usual dials and knobs, switched wm & distros, rolled my own gentoo .. and then needed to get some work done and switched to Windows .. which 'shockingly' was just flawless.

I have several other desktops, laptops and servers all running some nvidia Linux combo without issue.

The whole experience has really highlighted just how much time I used to spend working on my computer rather than actually being productive.

WSL provides all my familiar command line needs.

[Sprout Evergarden]

11 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The problem comes when trying to get something approaching a performant usable desktop experience. I am not prepared to put up with screen tearing, poor video playback or waiting for applications to repaint (you know, basic stuff).

I know that experience well hence why I am useing a Mac on the desktop(if I want a command line I want it native and not threw an emulation layer) and use Linux for high security stuff Nvidia is pretty much windows only sadly Apple don't like em  and there operation with the Kernel team is Infamously bad even with the chips they try to sell into the android market.  share there a couple hacks you can try like ForceFullCompositionPipeline = On but they are still bad hacks so your pretty much stuck with AMD cards on linux (only enough just like a intel Mac)

Only enough with AMD all the tearing and redraw issues go away but when you already have a GTX 2060 you might as well use windows and fight the telemetry monster. 

  

[Coffee Pancake]

40 minutes ago, Atosuria Daviau said:

I know that experience well hence why I am useing a Mac on the desktop

If you're on x86, whatever GPU you have .. You will get a straight up 20% performance boost for SL running windows on the same hardware. Depressingly true of every mac I've tested it on.

40 minutes ago, Atosuria Daviau said:

(if I want a command line I want it native and not threw an emulation layer)

WSL2 is native, runs it's own kernel via virtualization. 

40 minutes ago, Atosuria Daviau said:

and use Linux for high security stuff

Yeaaah .. about that  That side of things has been broadly oversold over the years and pedants love to argue that some random dependency falling over and handing out a root shell isn't technically the Linux part of the system's fault.

40 minutes ago, Atosuria Daviau said:

there a couple hacks you can try like ForceFullCompositionPipeline = On but they are still bad hacks

and didn't fix my problems 

40 minutes ago, Atosuria Daviau said:

Only enough with AMD all the tearing and redraw issues go away but when you already have a GTX 2060 you might as well use windows and fight the telemetry monster. 

PiHole for DNS, what telemetry monster

[Nick0678]

Oh Microsoft why have you forsaken me....

 

Nevermind.. back to Linux.

 

[Nick0678]

10 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

the real Unix

Solaris?

 

12 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

and I put Windows 7 back on the pig.

Hmm Windows 7 are considered obsolete .. why not Windows 10?

(won't even suggest Win11 because i understand those are forbidden for that PC)

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

7 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Solaris?

Yep, and HPux. I loathed CDE, though. I did actually use Unix on some PD11s but as there's no GUI it probably doesn't count).

I didn't put windows 10 on the machine because I want to actually use the machine as soon as it's woken up, not wait for up to 60 minutes whilst it churns away with the telemetry, updates, installs features I don't want to use but can't opt-out of, and then smugly restarts and says "we're making Windows better".  Stop making it sick in the first place, I say.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[Qie Niangao]

On 10/21/2021 at 1:06 AM, Atosuria Daviau said:

if you have an AMD cpu or graphics card stay away from win 11 for now https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/13/22723998/windows-11-update-amd-ryzen-cpu-performance-worse

 

[Coffee Pancake]

Again ... 

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

Posts seem to have vanished, a least one of mine, since although it's quoted it's not actually there.

If I've been considered out of order I don't mind but it would have been courteous to have told me where I'd overstepped a line?

[Lyssa Greymoon]

On 10/18/2021 at 5:19 PM, Xocel said:

Second Life viewers (including Firestorm) use OpenGL. Microsoft (who makes windows) and AMD (who make Radeon) treat OpenGL as a second class citizen it seems. Last time I tried to use the Radeon Adrenaline software on Windows to record it would not even allow me to record a game if it used OpenGL instead of DirectX or Vulkan.

FWIW, AMD ReLive will record OpenGL games in a window, but not full screen. Sub-optimal. 

[Xocel]

It won't let me edit my original post in this thread back on page 8 to add the Arch-based instructions for getting native voice chat to work along with notifications. But here's how to get Second Life going, and voice and notifications to work for Arch Linux (and arch Linux based instructions). These instructions were of course used after a fresh install using the guided installer where I used Gnome3 as the desktop environment and recommended drivers (figured I'd mention that just in case Gnome grabs any extra dependencies).

Arch based (Arch Linux, Endeavour OS, Garuda Linux, Manjaro)

Running the viewer:

First, before the viewer will even run you need to install a few dependencies.

sudo pacman -S glu gtk2

Voice chat:

Before you can install all of these you will need to enable multilib repository, and have the AUR helper yay installed and set up (these are enabled and set up by default on Manjaro and Endeavour OS I believe).

sudo pacman -S gst-plugins-bad gst-plugins-base gst-plugins-good gst-plugins-ugly lib32-gst-plugins-base lib32-gst-plugins-good lib32-libpulse lib32-alsa-plugins lib32-alsa-lib libstdc++5 libidn11 lib32-libidn11

yay -S lib32-libstdc++5 lib32-libstdc++28

Notifications:

In order for notifications to work you will need to install the following using yay.

yay -S growl-for-linux-git

[Ezzie Alpha]

I switch to Windows 11 and it was too late to switch back when I realized it was not worth it.  I have had constant crashing issues and problems with it through Firestorm.  Who kept on saying it was my computer after following everything they said at Mira and also the request to get additional ram because window 11 takes up more I spent $65 Canadian on 8 more gigs and I still have the same issues and concerns.  The switch is not worth it and Firestorm and Second Life need to update the requirement to be in SL or show what is needed for those on Windows 11 or come out with a patch or fix to stop the problem.  I know I am not the only one facing this issue.

[Maryanne Solo]

My PC is due for an upgrade of which I will do hard drives only for now.
I finally get to move to M2 format for OS, (mobo was compliant 2 years ago) and the rest will finally be
all SSD's including externals. bbye mechanical drives! \0_
I'd like to jump up to i9 but i'm a bit suspect about being forced into Windblows 11 like I was forced
into Win 10/64 which actually turned out to be quite ok.
I'm not sure I can afford 128gb of RAM atmo either, so I'll stick with 64gb lol.
This will also sound the death knell for the most expensive software suites and a move to open source
for graphics, 3D, video etc, cept for Audio which will be M.O.T.U Digital Performer 11. ❤️
and I dunno about Illustrator because I love it so much and have BIG plans for its export to laser cutter functionalities. (only got CS6 MasterSuite not cloud).

Edited February 15, 2022 by Maryanne Solo

[Mollymews]

i haven't been able to hate Windows 11, as the Windows Update says my computer doesn't meet the min. specification. So I can only hate on Microsoft for preventing me hating on Windows 11

😸

 

[Sid Nagy]

I'm still on windows 10.
Never saw a good reason to try windows 11.

I don't have the feeling I'm missing something.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Sid Nagy

[CaithLynnSayes]

Why i always wait to update an OS? Just read the last 10 pages. I even do it when buying a new car. Those get facelifts and improvements too. So i always watch everyone complain about it for about a year, then i watch the manufacturer fix those things, improve it until it becomes a stable and mainstream operating system. Then i'll update.

Besides, Windows 10 will be fully supported till 2025, that's another 3 years, So why hurry?

[rasterscan]

I'd still be on win7 if AMD Ryzen hadn't stitched me up 

[BelindaN]

I know very little about IT. My laptop suggested I upgraded to W11 and I did. It doesn't look much different, just the start up cluster has changed.

Is there something I missed?

[Sid Nagy]

W11 will not upgrade my PC because something in my BIOS seems not to be switched on that W10 doesn't need but W11 does. I keep my hands of the bios because my PC works really great. So the W11 update will not happen.

I haven't been in a BIOS since my first Pentium machine in the Middle Ages of PC history, so I will not do it myself and I see no reason to shell out some of my Euros to let someone do it. W10 works just fine.
 

[Ardy Lay]

Resistance is not futile... yet.

[Echelon Alcott]

On 2/13/2022 at 5:20 PM, Ezziedq Mirabella said:

I switch to Windows 11 and it was too late to switch back when I realized it was not worth it.  I have had constant crashing issues and problems with it through Firestorm.  Who kept on saying it was my computer after following everything they said at Mira and also the request to get additional ram because window 11 takes up more I spent $65 Canadian on 8 more gigs and I still have the same issues and concerns.  The switch is not worth it and Firestorm and Second Life need to update the requirement to be in SL or show what is needed for those on Windows 11 or come out with a patch or fix to stop the problem.  I know I am not the only one facing this issue.

Sorry to hear about the issues you are experiencing. My migration to Win11 was fine. I took care myself of making sure my computers were upgradeable. However, I decided to use the services of a trusted (Canadian) computer store chain to actually perform the upgrade. It cost a bit of money, but they do that day after day and have tons of experience. I believe it was money well spent, as they did a good job and my computer is working fine. You might want to consider taking your computer and have it evaluated/inspected.

Good luck!