New Gacha Policy Discussion

[LittleMe Jewell]

13 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I can just see it ... one person steps aside hoping someone else will pay until what they want comes up .. and then what happens when they both want that item? They fight over it? I dunno as a creator I don't want my customers put in a position to have to fight with each other over my products.

 

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

So sort of like a lucky chair but with someone else paying for the items you don't want.  As I mentioned when it first came up, why?  Why would I stand around on the off chance someone wanders by and buys what I don't want?  Locking it to a certain avatar?  Wonderful, that item finally comes up and it's locked to the person who just purchased the last item?   It's ludicrous.  IMHO

 

Yeah, I can't see why a creator would do this and can't imagine customers sitting around waiting -- but I have seen creators do some odd things over the years.

[Rosa Hexem]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

That is also a good way to stifle constructive conversation which is what the thread is for. New Gacha Policy Discussion.

If someone needs to hush, let the mods do their job.

I respect the fact that you want discussion to be open and free, and I'm about that too, but if two people are locked in a cycle of disagreeing with one-another over and over in regards to points that they've already discussed it can become cyclical and prevent the conversation from exploring other ideas. I'm not telling them to hush, I'm saying sometimes it's worth it to drop a topic for the time and move onto another discussion. After all, ideas can be revisited later with fresh perspectives and under other circumstances.

[Sid Nagy]

If I was in the gacha business, I would keep it simple and change to what more and more clothing venues seem to start doing:
Sell the not so popular items individually and put the whole collection including the eye candy pieces in an (expensive) fatpack.

Example (not really existing):
Sid's home bar.  20 different items.
For sale individual: the dartboard, the bar stools, the billiard cue rack, the lightings, a witty beer poster, the rug etc.
All for prices between ariund 100 L$ - 200$
These are all available in the fat pack as well. Plus the fatpack contains exclusively the fully animated bar, the fully animated pool table and the animated jukebox.
Fatpack price X,000 L$.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[Silas Merlin]

I have been visited in my dreams by a mystical bird with magnificient plumage of impossible colours.
The bird spoke inside my head and said that the name for whatever comes next to replace gachas shall be....

PATCHAS (any resemblance with existing or fictional characters is totally fortuitous).

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Viche Hexem said:

I respect the fact that you want discussion to be open and free, and I'm about that too, but if two people are locked in a cycle of disagreeing with one-another over and over in regards to points that they've already discussed it can become cyclical and prevent the conversation from exploring other ideas. I'm not telling them to hush, I'm saying sometimes it's worth it to drop a topic for the time and move onto another discussion. After all, ideas can be revisited later with fresh perspectives and under other circumstances.

Just let the mods do their jobs. Trying to intervene in other people's squabbles can get you suspended for it as well.

[AriaMoonlit]

40 minutes ago, Rathgrith027 said:

I understand that frustration, but you need to look at both Real life and Second Life circumstances. The COVID-19 pandemic has caused people to lose their homes, their real life jobs, and even lose their lives. I wouldn't doubt for a second if one creator from SL has lost their life to it, if not more. While yes, many people have been at home during the pandemic, It doesn't help that people have been having to focus on real life for many reasons. This is the primary reason why you probably have been seeing less and less content in recent times.

 

The reason for that is undoubtedly because of the loosening of restrictions. I have seen some friends of mine not on as often because of this and related reasons as well.

Many people have said that Second Life is dying for years. Our concurrent user count up until the COVID-19 pandemic started was relatively stable for about 2-4 years. Our Economy had a GDP of around 800 Million USD (or was it 180 Million? I can't remember which it was sadly) as late as 2018. We will inevitably take a hit from this. but this isn't ours, and it isn't the Lindens' Fault. If you want to point the blame at anyone for pressure on Gacha, it is the mobile and AAA games industry for pushing lootboxes like they have been, raising the ire of many groups of people.

As someone who did a small amount of reselling on the side, hear me when I say this - I understand yours, and others concerns when you say you're worried or frustrated - I know I've come off as agitated and annoyed, but I genuinely sympathize with your fears. But this is for the best, so that we can ensure that Second Life doesn't die as a result of legal non-compliance when these laws become enacted in more countries.

The Lindens as of late have been making a genuine attempt, within reason, to try and improve Second Life. It has been rough to some extent, but with change, that is to be expected. Trust me and others when I say that the end of Gacha will not be the end of Second Life, and that it will not lead down that path.

Yeah I'm wondering if this means if the  3000L POWDER PACK in SL at VELOUR for CATWA,LELUTKA ,GENUS will be ended as well, since people don't know what they're going to get until the SURPRISE BOX is released with the items from the creators for the month. Other boxes like a LOOTBOX for items that are just special recolors of already made items.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Sid Nagy said:

If I was in the gacha business, I would change to what more and more clothing venues seem to start doing:
Sell the not so popular items individually and put the whole collection including the eye candy pieces in an (expensive) fatpack.

Example (not really existing):
Sid's home bar.  20 different items.
For sale individual: the dartboard, the bar stools, the billiard cue rack, the lightings, a witty beer poster, the rug etc.
All for prices between 50 and 100 L$
These are all available in the fat pack as well. Plus the fatpack contains exclusively the fully animated bar, the fully animated pool table and the animated jukebox.
Fatpack price X,000 L$.

And if the customer wants just the bar, pool table and jukebox you would honor the customer's request, box them up and make the sale, would you not?

 

I know you would but others may not. 🤫

[Rathgrith027]

2 minutes ago, AriaMoonlit said:

Yeah I'm wondering if this means if the  3000L POWDER PACK in SL at VELOUR for CATWA,LELUTKA ,GENUS will be ended as well, since people don't know what they're going to get until the SURPRISE BOX is released with the items from the creators for the month. Other boxes like a LOOTBOX for items that are just special recolors of already made items.

If everyone gets the exact same items, then it should be within compliance, but if it's randomized, then no.

[Pussycat Catnap]

2 hours ago, maddisonave said:

But then can't the same be said for those that play the gachas?  Exploiting is a pretty strong statement, maybe its time for those people to step away from SL if they let gacha get them in trouble?  It takes a bank account and the ability to buy Lindens to play a gacha, isn't everyone here supposed to be an adult?  The creators put hours and money into making their items, they're the ones with the most to lose here.  There should at least be a discussion first? 

Do you blame the junkie lying on the floor of the crack house or the drug lord living in the mansion?

I'm not ready to blame the junkie here.

 

 

[Finite]

22 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

AFAIK We are not allowed under any circumstances to upload anything bought or downloaded from Turbosquid and the like, unless the items are distributed under CC0 (public domain), because you have to own all the rights to content you upload to Second Life.

It doesn't need to be public domain. It's dependent on the vendor's license terms. From the SL Wiki:

What about models from services such as Google 3D Warehouse or Turbosquid?

Every mesh you acquire from these and other sites is subject to its creator/vendor's particular license terms, and you must adhered to them. Every individual Turbosquid model contains a license link on its main page, and Turbosquid's general Licensing Terms and FAQ can be found here. Google's 3D Warehouse Terms of Service can be found here. If any meshes violate either the original creator/vendor's license terms, or Second Life's Terms of Service and Policies, then we will handle the matter as previously mentioned.

[Sid Nagy]

4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

And if the customer wants just the bar, pool table and jukebox you would honor the customer's request, box them up and make the sale, would you not?

 

I know you would but others may not. 🤫

That is the selling trick, to NOT do that.
Last week I saw a very nice shirt on someone, went to the store: a lot of lame colors are sold individually, the nice ones are only in the 25 colors (so pricey) fatpack.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[Rosa Hexem]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Just let the mods do their jobs. Trying to intervene in other people's squabbles can get you suspended for it as well.

With respect to the fact you'd rather let moderators do their job, isn't trying to disuade me from doing this with the implication that I could get suspended backseat moderation on your part? I'm goig to continue operating as I do regardless tbh, as you say, if my behaviour is an issue to the degree that it requires moderator intervention I will keep your warning in mind but wait until they warn me about my beaviour instead.

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

I have been visited in my dreams by a mystical bird with magnificient plumage of impossible colours.
The bird spoke inside my head and said that the name for whatever comes next to replace gachas shall be....

PATCHAS (any resemblance with existing or fictional characters is totally fortuitous).

I am sending a personal invitation to 'the telepathy thread' a few categories down from this one    😁

[AriaMoonlit]

1 minute ago, Rathgrith027 said:

If everyone gets the exact same items, then it should be within compliance, but if it's randomized, then no.

Everyone gets the same items but you still don't know what your getting IN the box till it's released so say you pay the amount , and get a pack of items you don't like , or it's not your style, you basically lost your L on something you don't like. Your paying for a surprise box. Not knowing what you will get.

[AriaMoonlit]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

That is the selling trick to NOT do that.
Last week I saw a very nice shirt on someone, went to the store: a lot of lame colors are sold individually, the nice ones are only in the fatpack.

Yeah before the gacha ban people have been doing that. Selling the nicer looking items in the fatpack. I actually think it's been going on for years though.

[Rathgrith027]

4 minutes ago, AriaMoonlit said:

Everyone gets the same items but you still don't know what your getting IN the box till it's released so say you pay the amount , and get a pack of items you don't like , or it's not your style, you basically lost your L on something you don't like. Your paying for a surprise box. Not knowing what you will get.

Yeah, in that case it'd be fine, I believe.

[Finite]

23 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Do you blame the junkie lying on the floor of the crack house or the drug lord living in the mansion?

I'm not ready to blame the junkie here.

 

 

So now gacha players are being compared to junkies and crackheads? Like seriously lol. I live 5 miles from an actual casino. I think its 5 years old now. I've never been there nor do I plan on going. There's another one about an hours or so drive I think that's been there most of my life. Never been there either nor do I plan on going. I play lotto once in a blue moon if I happen to have cash on me when at the convenience store. I have zero aspirations of going on some vegas vacation or anything. If I were to go out west Im far more likely spend a week in SF and have some good food, scenery, wine and sushi. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Finite

[Luna Bliss]

Hello, my name is Luna, and I am a.....a....a

GACHA JUNKIE!

[Finite]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Hello, my name is Luna, and I am a.....a....a

GACHA JUNKIE!

Hi Luna, I am Finite. Nice to meet you. I got my week 1 chip today.

[Katherine Heartsong]

2 hours ago, Eren Padar said:

Something of interest to note in this:   there are almost as many SL residents against this solution as there are for this solution.  The population is fairly evenly divided.

90% of the SL population doesn't care and doesn't post In the forums.

Among those of us in this thread, the long-timers who understand how SL works better than most and have had experiences like this in the past, or are pragmatic, seem overwhelmingly to support getting rid of gachas. Not necessarily because they like or dislike them, but they seem to grasp the law and legal reasons LL is doing this. 

I've seen far more posters with 5-10 posts suddenly appearing in this thread who support keeping gachas, and/or coming up with methods of trying to skirt the upcoming rules, than my spidey senses think is usual, but I am paranoid after all.  

So, not sure it's a 50-50 split, and even if it is, I'll still take the thoughts of posters who have been here a decade or more over new players most times.

Heck, there are posters that appeared only today in the forums who are very vocal about keeping gachas, but that's surely just some of those 90% that normally don't post, I'm sure.

[Elvina Ewing]

wow, 90 pages that i'm honestly not gonna read! I really tried my best and read about 10+ pages but it's too much...

So i am sorry if this has already been discussed in this thread, feel free to point me to the posts if so...

I think i'm mostly glad that gachas will be gone. However, i recognize the importance it had for many SL residents, and i'm afraid it will cause negative impact on SL in general and SL economy.

I also have participated in several gacha events myself in the past, and i still keep all those gacha machines in my store for people to play if they want a certain item.

I understand that i will have to remove all of them. I really really really don't want to retire those items!! What choice do i have as a creator? I got a lot of hate and harassment in the past for making rares and ultras available for a high price in my store as a limited pack. I had to remove them all, and that was the main reason i decided to put those gacha machines back out in my store.

Would it be ok to offer the same old gacha items as copy/mod/ no trans version for a normal price in the store? Or will i be harassed and badmouthed for doing that again?

[Kathlen Onyx]

28 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

If I was in the gacha business, I would keep it simple and change to what more and more clothing venues seem to start doing:
Sell the not so popular items individually and put the whole collection including the eye candy pieces in an (expensive) fatpack.

Example (not really existing):
Sid's home bar.  20 different items.
For sale individual: the dartboard, the bar stools, the billiard cue rack, the lightings, a witty beer poster, the rug etc.
All for prices between ariund 100 L$ - 200$
These are all available in the fat pack as well. Plus the fatpack contains exclusively the fully animated bar, the fully animated pool table and the animated jukebox.
Fatpack price X,000 L$.

That would most certainly deter me from purchasing from that store if creators adapted this idea.  

[Rathgrith027]

Just now, Elvina Ewing said:

wow, 90 pages that i'm honestly not gonna read! I really tried my best and read about 10+ pages but it's too much...

So i am sorry if this has already been discussed in this thread, feel free to point me to the posts if so...

I think i'm mostly glad that gachas will be gone. However, i recognize the importance it had for many SL residents, and i'm afraid it will cause negative impact on SL in general and SL economy.

I also have participated in several gacha events myself in the past, and i still keep all those gacha machines in my store for people to play if they want a certain item.

I understand that i will have to remove all of them. I really really really don't want to retire those items!! What choice do i have as a creator? I got a lot of hate and harassment in the past for making rares and ultras available for a high price in my store as a limited pack. I had to remove them all, and that was the main reason i decided to put those gacha machines back out in my store.

Would it be ok to offer the same old gacha items as copy/mod/ no trans version for a normal price in the store? Or will i be harassed and badmouthed for doing that again?

It would be best to sell them in a conventional matter, as many stores now are forced to do the same thing. There are many more people who will support your decision than those who seem to have a hardon for gacha to the point that they'll flame people who dare comply with a Linden Lab policy change.

[Kathlen Onyx]

15 minutes ago, Finite said:

So now gacha players are being compared to junkies and crackheads? Like seriously lol. I live 5 miles from an actual casino. I think its 5 years old now. I've never been there nor do I plan on going. There's another one about an hours or so drive I think that's been there most of my life. Never been there either nor do I plan on going. I play lotto once in a blue moon if I happen to have cash on me when at the convenience store. I have zero aspirations of going on some vegas vacation or anything. If I were to go out west Im far more likely spend a week in SF and have some good food, scenery, wine and sushi. You seem to have a very low bar for what you consider a junky.

Actually a gambling addiction is very comparable to a junkie. Do some research.

[Finite]

1 minute ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Actually a gambling addiction is very comparable to a junkie. Do some research.

I agree with this. I don't agree with the relationship between that and playing SL's version of gacha. Sorry.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Finite