New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Komarimono]

1 minute ago, Maitimo said:

7 Seas fishing allows creators to put whatever they like in the water (well actually in the server barrel). This was designed to accommodate custom-made fish and rods, but it can be literally anything. There's nothing (yet) to stop a creator taking their gacha content and sticking it in a fish barrel, and hosting a fishing contest to catch them.  Aside from the fact that the creator wouldn't get any money from it, unless they made their fishing area pay-to-enter.

This I did not know of, since not documented on the 7seas information.  I've also never encountered custom fish at places that are listed as 7seas fishing.  Not even sure how they could, since the scripts are No-Mod.

[Experimental Scientist]

3 minutes ago, Komarimono said:

This I did not know of, since not documented on the 7seas information.  I've also never encountered custom fish at places that are listed as 7seas fishing.  Not even sure how they could, since the scripts are No-Mod.

Back when I was an active fisher (maybe 10 years ago?) it was actually pretty common to have shops hand out unique gifts through their local fishing pond. But I stopped playing so many years ago, and I figured it disappeared when other trends took over (like gachas).

This was back in the day when everyone still shopped in inworld main stores ofc.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Experimental Scientist

[Gwin LeShelle]

Someone mentioned a subscription like thing. We have that in SL already it's things like Powder Pack. Just wanted to say 😊

[So Whimsy]

7 minutes ago, Eren Padar said:

Something of interest to note in this:   there are almost as many SL residents against this solution as there are for this solution.  The population is fairly evenly divided.

 

Source?

[Silent Mistwalker]

13 minutes ago, Deathly Fright said:

so you also have a problem with name chairs?

Of course not. You seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. That's not an insult, just an observation. Resulting from your constant misinterpretations of what I say. 

At this point, I think you have bitten off more than you can chew. Maybe take a step back for a day or two and really research what you are trying to convince others of. I think you will find that what you keep trying to propose will not be allowed as it is too close to being what a gacha is defined as being by LL.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

10 hours ago, Gwin LeShelle said:

 

I do agree that law is law, but this would be uncalled cruel.

Let's think of stores like Amitomo (one of my favest btw) that 99 percent gacha and many other creators, that make a living off SL.

It's nice that you do not have to make a living off SL and neither do I but your answer is disrespectful for people that do.

The notice...this very important notice was just published in English, a language surprisingly not everyone in SL speaks. And also it was released on their blog, a thing not everyone follows religiously. So 7 days for the word to get around and for a creator THAT WILL BE PUNISHED after that would be more than short.

My answer wasn't disrespectful. The ban comes down to a few creators (not all) using those things to take advantage of customers human nature to gamble trying to get the one item they want instead of a normal vendor.

[Komarimono]

Just now, Experimental Scientist said:

Back when I was an active fisher (maybe 10 years ago?) it was actually pretty common to have shops hand out unique gifts through their local fishing pond. But I stopped playing so many years ago, and I figured it disappeared when other trends took over (like gachas).

Ah ha.  I just knew of the bounty boards and the like, trading in fish for items.  Good to know.  But even then, wouldn't help someone selling their product, since caught if that's the case.

[LittleMe Jewell]

9 minutes ago, Eren Padar said:

Something of interest to note in this:   there are almost as many SL residents against this solution as there are for this solution.  The population is fairly evenly divided.

Hard telling.  This forum is no where close to representative of the entire SL population.

[Rathgrith027]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

No, because it is a LEGAL issue for LL.

This is not about anyone getting hurt feelings because they did not get the pink tutu that they wanted or people complaining about the addiction (though that does spur many of the RL laws) or about anything else the Residents think.  

It is all about LL and them staying out of court.

I wish people would understand this. I'm sick and tired, and I'm certainly not the only one, of people thinking that Linden Lab will just change their minds on this or enact difficult to enforce, overreaching regulations.

Let me be perfectly blunt here: There is no chance in hell that Linden Lab will reverse their decision on this, unless somehow, half the civilized world's governments all of a sudden decide that Gacha is perfectly fine, and either stop enforcing already existing laws or pursue enacting new ones to ban it. And I can safely say that with pressure from various interests on the matter, ranging from frustrated gamers and parents, to gambling addiction groups, among others, would sooner drink bleach than let that happen.

I'm sick of people making comparisons to things that are either legally sound or have the square root of nothing to do with Gacha and lootboxes.

Let me put it like this:

Asking Linden Lab not to ban Gacha, would be like asking Linden Lab to have Patch Linden, or whoever is legally considered the executive officer of Linden Lab, to go to court and represent LL sans Attorney. Anyone with any understanding of law knows that representing yourself unless you damn well know what you're doing, is asking for punishment, and continuing to ignore rising legal risks to allowing this distribution method is not much different.

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Silas Merlin said:

Another alternative to gachas would be.... subscription.
Paying a subscription to a given creator would give you all the items they produce that month, or the next, and there would be no other way to acquire those items at any time in the future.

Would that be illegal because you would not know what you will get when you pay the subscription ?

Subscription services seem to be allowed as everyone is getting the same items in the box.  There is no one getting a random item worth more than the items everyone else gets.  I enjoyed the one subscription I joined.  I didn't always use the items or like all of them but I was getting the same items as everyone else.  Some people probably liked the things I didn't.  They were also, for the most part, copy/no tranfer items.  

[Silent Mistwalker]

10 minutes ago, Gwin LeShelle said:

Oh I totally understood I am not arguing either 💜 but many people often confused "complete gacha" in articles with completely every type of gacha so I just wanted to clarify that point for readers ♪ \(^ω^\ ) 

lol I was trying to help you do that. I think we succeeded. At least a little bit. 🤗

[Experimental Scientist]

Just now, Komarimono said:

Ah ha.  I just knew of the bounty boards and the like, trading in fish for items.  Good to know.  But even then, wouldn't help someone selling their product, since caught if that's the case.

You're right. It's not an alternative to gacha income.

It was a special way to hand out gifts to your customers. Note back in those days people were still being paid to camp malls etc for traffic, so if you could instead give out some random gifts to have people stand around for an hour or two at your store's fish pond instead, that was a pretty decent deal instead. Most would also have a affiliate vendor for 7S bait and accessories in their store as well.

I feel the move away from main stores towards marketplace and monthly events has overall had a much bigger impact on SL economy than any single decision like banning gaches ever could. And that shift from inworld shopping to event and MP shopping was pretty much a natural evolution.

[kali Wylder]

Is Gacha gambling? Yes.  Is gambling illegal in the US of A where Linden Labs is based? Yes. Does it matter who or how many people want Gacha to continue? No.

[So Whimsy]

Just now, kali Wylder said:

Is Gacha gambling? Yes.  Is gambling illegal in the US of A where Linden Labs is based? Yes. Does it matter who or how many people want Gacha to continue? No.

[Yhishara Cerise]

7 minutes ago, Gwin LeShelle said:

Someone mentioned a subscription like thing. We have that in SL already it's things like Powder Pack. Just wanted to say 😊

I don't know if even that will be allowed because you don't know what you are getting really until the box goes live and get's delivered.  All you know upon purchasing is that it's for a particular mesh head.   I suppose they could give a preview when the announcement for the new pack is announced. 

[Finite]

1 minute ago, kali Wylder said:

Is Gacha gambling? Yes.  Is gambling illegal in the US of A where Linden Labs is based? Yes. Does it matter who or how many people want Gacha to continue? No.

Is this a discussion board? Yes.

[Rosa Hexem]

5 minutes ago, Experimental Scientist said:

That's gonna go over well in an event that already has a full sim for a week or two in a row. 😛

I mean, I see it working. Lets say it cycles every minute or so, lets say people can see the item they're going to buy , lets say that people get locked into a vendor for 10 seconds on a timer that resets every time they buy something.

Someone goes and buys something from the vendor, they get the thing and the conveyor moves along one with a new random product joining the end of the list. If this person sees something they like they can buy again and again until they get the thing they want, if not they leave the vendor and someone else can hop on if they like.

This way nobody can product snipe because they'll be locked out of the machine when a new product appears and the person presently using it will have the first chance to buy the thing. This does beg the question though, what if people just kept hopping back on a machine to lock it down for themselves?

I figure maybe have them time out of using the vendor for 5 seconds before they can use it again, this way there's no being sure you can hold down the vendor for a whole day (though I suppose it might lead to some kind of frantic vendor cooldown clicking war to keep it locked down as long as possible until it cycles to something good, that certainly makes me think...)

[ARD1994]

13 minutes ago, Experimental Scientist said:

What will happen at an event like Arcade or Epiphany where there's maybe 20 people trying the machine at the same time? If it switches the prize anyone someone buys an item, if one of those 20 tries to buy a rare and then gets a different one because someone else sniped it, it's already non-compliant. And that's not even considering the added impact of lag.

I know where you got the idea, and it works well for Overwatch, but in Overwatch every player is getting lootboxes individually on their own PC, with no else joining in.

Just put multiple vendors and do the event in more sim....after lock the vendor to one single player with timeline and should be fine...i mean Nothing impossible, and if the problem is that for who create event will cost too much they can put cost for enter like example 100L

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 minutes ago, Yhishara Cerise said:

11 minutes ago, Gwin LeShelle said:

Someone mentioned a subscription like thing. We have that in SL already it's things like Powder Pack. Just wanted to say 😊

I don't know if even that will be allowed because you don't know what you are getting really until the box goes live and get's delivered.  All you know upon purchasing is that it's for a particular mesh head.   I suppose they could give a preview when the announcement for the new pack is announced. 

Last I had heard, they do give preview of Powder Pack now.  It is irrelevant though, base on this, from the blog post:

Q: How are subscription boxes affected?

A: Subscription boxes are not affected as long as all subscribers are getting the same content box. Different items being sent to different subscribers on a chance basis is not allowed. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Gwin LeShelle]

7 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

My answer wasn't disrespectful. The ban comes down to a few creators (not all) using those things to take advantage of customers human nature to gamble trying to get the one item they want instead of a normal vendor.

I didn't mean disrespectful in a bad way tho, disrespectful is a word we use a lot and maybe its not quite the same in English so I apologize of that felt wrong to you. But yes there were such stores, I personally never played a gacha where I wouldn't be happy with any of the items. And I hated the the trend lately of not only rares, no rare1 rare2 rare 3 aaaand supercalifragilisticexpialidocious rare XD and many people play for the whole set or even for the most hard to get thing and creators know this. Like making an avatar and clothes in gacha for it and the most important thing the Avatar is the super rare. That just is mean. 

[Sparkle Bunny]

11 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

There's nothing (yet) to stop a creator taking their gacha content and sticking it in a fish barrel, and hosting a fishing contest to catch them.

Sn@tch did this for aeons, before gacha was even thought of. You could fish for bits of an outfit, and because they were transferable you could trade your duplicates for bits you were missing. Just as with the actual fish, there was no incentive to sell the items because nobody wants to pay for something they can get for nothing. I have so many random left shoes and earrings hanging out in my inventory as a result.

[Gwin LeShelle]

4 minutes ago, Yhishara Cerise said:

I don't know if even that will be allowed because you don't know what you are getting really until the box goes live and get's delivered.  All you know upon purchasing is that it's for a particular mesh head.   I suppose they could give a preview when the announcement for the new pack is announced. 

It's all-over Flickr and their site etc. Whats in every box usually. So it's not a blind box. People know what's inside. 

[Theresa Tennyson]

18 minutes ago, Eren Padar said:

Something of interest to note in this:   there are almost as many SL residents against this solution as there are for this solution.  The population is fairly evenly divided

 

If you're basing this on the forums, any time Linden Lab makes a change that results in less than 90% of the posters screaming their opposition to it should be considered a landslide in favor of it.

[Deathly Fright]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Of course not. You seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. That's not an insult, just an observation. Resulting from your constant misinterpretations of what I say. 

At this point, I think you have bitten off more than you can chew. Maybe take a step back for a day or two and really research what you are trying to convince others of. I think you will find that what you keep trying to propose will not be allowed as it is too close to being what a gacha is defined as being by LL.

from my point of view it's you not understand what I'm saying, let me do a long post to spell out what I'm talking about

in SL there are chairs that are made in a way that people can get something for free if they sit in it if their name starts with a specific letter. this letter rotates over time. they are sometimes called lucky letter chairs or lucky name chairs.

there are other types of things that sell you an item that then changes the item that's for sale randomly after the person buys the listed item. this is called a conveyor. the are items that are less likely to be listed those items are called rares.

in my proposal, the two ideas are fused. so there is a chair that will give people a free item to a name that starts with a certain letter in the chair, but they can also buy a listed item that is randomly generated instead. anybody with the lucky letter of the moment can sit and get any of the items listed that are in the conveyor if their name starts with the lucky letter. the odds of getting the rare are the same (or maybe more likely for paying people) if you sit or if you buy.

there are many variations on this, but the base idea is the same. as there is a chance of somebody getting it for free, the rare item can be had without paying.

 

[Deathly Fright]

7 minutes ago, Viche Hexem said:

I mean, I see it working. Lets say it cycles every minute or so, lets say people can see the item they're going to buy , lets say that people get locked into a vendor for 10 seconds on a timer that resets every time they buy something.

Someone goes and buys something from the vendor, they get the thing and the conveyor moves along one with a new random product joining the end of the list. If this person sees something they like they can buy again and again until they get the thing they want, if not they leave the vendor and someone else can hop on if they like.

This way nobody can product snipe because they'll be locked out of the machine when a new product appears and the person presently using it will have the first chance to buy the thing. This does beg the question though, what if people just kept hopping back on a machine to lock it down for themselves?

I figure maybe have them time out of using the vendor for 5 seconds before they can use it again, this way there's no being sure you can hold down the vendor for a whole day (though I suppose it might lead to some kind of frantic vendor cooldown clicking war to keep it locked down as long as possible until it cycles to something good, that certainly makes me think...)

also a queue can be added that allows people to be added for free, and then sent a sim-wide message when it'll be available soon