New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Mollymews]

28 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

The reality is, people *will* stand around stores waiting for something. They already do this for Lucky Chairs; they already do this for hunts. To be sure, those things are free or $1-10, and conveyors might be $75 for a commons, so to speak, and $400 for a rare. But they *will* stand around. "They also serve who only stand and wait". We will see the emergence of a job description in SL in the lower ranks of jobs that involves being paid to go stand by conveyors, and then TP in grander dames when the rare shows up so those who can afford it can buy it. There is already a friendly bunch in Jinx's group, for example, who call out in the group the letter of the Lucky Chair for those who can't stand on the sim. So similarly cooperative activities will begin, either in groups for free or outside of groups for pay.

way down deep in this thread there was a conversation about Lucky Chair mechanics, which I copied over to the Scripting forum as there is a thread over there in which how might these things be scripted have been posted

one idea for busy venues could be Sit on the chair, have some time period to buy the item in the view, when we don't buy then we get unseated. This solves the sniping problem and the too many touches on the chair/board at busy venues, as it locks the chair to the person sitting on it

and yes about calling out the letters of lucky chairs in group chat.  I do that too sometimes. One shop I used to frequent had 5 lucky chairs and group chat allowed. What we used to do in the chat was try to make a little story which included all the letters on the 5 chairs. Was quite fun to do, and to see what stories other people came up with

other thing I do when playing lucky chairs is that when a M comes up and I already have that one, then when there is another M person and they don't notice then I willl chat M for Mary whichever their name is. When there is no other M person then I will sit the chair just to flip it for the other players present

maybe Sit the Chair devices will came back again in some form with this new policy

 

[Dictatorshop]

20 minutes ago, Pixels Sideways said:

I pointed out it is foolish to create an income dependency on the back of an entity like LL/SL that you have absolutely no control over. 

SL is my day job, as it happens, crazy foolish or not, LOL.  I have learned over the years that Life is full of uncertainty any company you work for or with can go under or shift gears radically at any time, ***** happens.  Control is a fake construct we make for our own sanity.  Do you really think you have control over the world?  Now, *that* is crazy, LOL!  My hubby was laid off from his RL job last year due to covid, companies all over the place have gone under due to a global pandemic.  It made me realize how much I love creating in SL, it also made me consider what would happen if it suddenly up and vanished one day.  Skills translate, you get a new gig using the skills you have somewhere else.  Its the same for SL as RL in that respect.  SL creation skills can go to other virtual worlds, games assets, making turbosquid assets or something, who knows, but nothing is wasted. 

As I said in the very first page of this nearly 150 page long thread, I feel for those that are taking this hit hard with the loss of gachas, but consider it a layoff of one type of income and an opportunity for something else rather than trying to just keep milking the same dead gacha cow.  At this point all anyone is doing is crying over the spilled milk and trying to figure out how to sponge some of it back up in some other fashion.  yuck.  Move on.

[Gwin LeShelle]

7 minutes ago, Dictatorshop said:

SL is my day job, as it happens, crazy foolish or not, LOL.  I have learned over the years that Life is full of uncertainty any company you work for or with can go under or shift gears radically at any time, ***** happens.  Control is a fake construct we make for our own sanity.  Do you really think you have control over the world?  Now, *that* is crazy, LOL!  My hubby was laid off from his RL job last year due to covid, companies all over the place have gone under due to a global pandemic.  It made me realize how much I love creating in SL, it also made me consider what would happen if it suddenly up and vanished one day.  Skills translate, you get a new gig using the skills you have somewhere else.  Its the same for SL as RL in that respect.  SL creation skills can go to other virtual worlds, games assets, making turbosquid assets or something, who knows, but nothing is wasted. 

As I said in the very first page of this nearly 150 page long thread, I feel for those that are taking this hit hard with the loss of gachas, but consider it a layoff of one type of income and an opportunity for something else rather than trying to just keep milking the same dead gacha cow.  At this point all anyone is doing is crying over the spilled milk and trying to figure out how to sponge some of it back up in some other fashion.  yuck.  Move on.

So true! I had my life planned out so I thought with 20 XD I worked for the government in a pretty physical intensive job. Some accidents and a cancer diagnosis later? Well after the initial feeling of the sky is falling down, I rearranged my life and adapted as I always did and it turned out to be the bestest of the worst things that happened. My job now, my family, finally being able to live in my hometown again, all this wouldn't have been possible without the "bad" stuff. 

Everyone now crying, for new systems is actually just panicking for probably different reasons, some out of worry for the life they used to know (we humans hate change), some out of worry how to pay the next bill, some just being sad about the feeling they might losing a beloved hobby and creative outlet and yes some out of pure greed. 

But they all will see that life goes on as usual just a little different and for some probably even a little better than before. Cause as I stated some pages back I bet some designers gain new customers that always avoided gacha creators, and yes some might also lose out.

I also saw alot of people inworld in groups cursing about LL ...it's not that the Lindens sat together and where like woohoo let's see how we can hurt the residents today. They always try hard, and they sure know the feeling of "you can't please everybody" someone should send them a shipload of coffee...and chocolate! I bet the poor moderator that needs to overlook this thread needs some vacation ..long vacation x3

[Qie Niangao]

There are quality items in gachas, and once in a great while a talented creator's best work is reserved for gacha "rares" as lure to get people to buy all the junk they'd never give away, lest it besmirch their brand. That's the thing, though: some real garbage gets loaded a commons, stuff nobody would buy on resale, stuff the merchant includes as tongue-in-cheek booby prizes. Which would be fine if gacha were still allowed (or if it moved to "skill gaming" regions), because it's a free market and folks can take a joke.

I suppose now, at stores that are running the last weeks of gacha as a fire sale, there may be some bargains, but in general claiming that gacha is a way to get high quality at low cost? Nobody can truly believe that without also worshipping their charmed personal "good luck."

Speaking of taking a joke, the creator of the "Meipon" contraption is original and quite talented, and also has a quirky sense of humor that emerges often, across their builds. I have a lot of their non-gacha stuff (some of the early work is not LOD-friendly, but they're not alone there), and at first I thought Meipon was intended as a joke. Apparently not. Nonetheless, it does push the conveyorpon concept pretty far in one direction: hard to imagine that having yet more slots in the visible sequence could be an improvement.

I'm interested in what further mutations could make even more obvious that conveyorpon should be subject to the same regulations LL fears for gacha. (We must recognize, though, that the lawyers may well be right about that it won't be subject to those regulations, or that it's worth trying. Consider the hugely chance-driven "games" on the "skilled gaming" regions that are nonetheless apparently exempt from gambling restrictions in enough jurisdictions to make a loophole-exploiting policy worthwhile.)

So what's the conveyorpon loophole? Presumably it's that the buyer knowns in advance exactly what they'll get for their money on each individual purchase.

As @Mollymews nicely outlined above, there may be a bunch of junk ("commons") to buy en route to an already showing prize ("rare"), but that's not a problem; it would be almost identical to a randomly preselected "obese pack" full of junk and a prize. In fact, that could be offered by a stock vendor, give or take the "randomly preselected" part which doesn't seem to add to the appeal.

What does add to the appeal, and makes conveyorpon potentially problematic, is the random new item revealed upon purchase of one item. In fact, the appeal of that non-deterministic part (what I earlier termed the "Enchantment of Chance" to skirt "gambling" defensiveness) is changed by a long queue of commons before something valuable might appear. The simple gacha chance appeal would be more closely approximated with no queue at all, revealing upon purchase only the very next item available. It's an interesting cognitive psych question, how extending that queue changes the addictive learning effect: it's delayed reinforcement in addition to partial reinforcement, so how effective is that at making the conditioned response immune to extinction?

The folks who make RL gaming machines would have good suggestions how to optimize a next-gen gacha-loophole device. At first I assumed long-queue conveyorpon couldn't be optimal at exploiting vulnerability to gambling addiction, but now I'm not so sure.

[Stella Davros]

For me as I said already if someone will take the same hud system of "pocket gacha" u can find here : https://www.google.com/search?q=pocket+gacha+hud&prmd=svin&sxsrf=ALeKk02nlGi6noudsV9rDIKkKIhzWrOOjQ:1628598606509&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjBmLDLuqbyAhWC66QKHQuzCmYQ_AUoAnoECAIQAg&biw=384&bih=669 

will be no queue at all.....is working like this: who organize the event will put into the hud all the vendors and will create a token for buy the items (1 token= 1Linden) and the customers could buy the tokens at the event or into the creators stores, once start the event all the people can buy from any point of secondlife and can go at the event where can find and try the demos , so is pretty simple,  the main script already exist , just someone have to implement on that script the belt or whatever will be and making working individual, as well they can put otion to buy the entire set too....for me will be a good idea as at less will be 100% no queue at all and even will be no queue for join the events

[Pixels Sideways]

8 minutes ago, Gwin LeShelle said:

As I said without people creating and building SL would be empty and boring. Where did I stated something about buyable things only? I visit alot of fun places of art, education and culture in SL some people have created amazing museum's about things they have passion for. And me saying crazy when you said your words, well not everyone speaks English as birth language, and interpretes things a different way. I don't care where people can sell stuff, I just said no one should forget that there are humans involved with passions and feelings on both sides. Funny that this seems not ok. But people in here advocating for gacha, conveyor belts and other things is ok.

It's also cute that you picked me out of all the commenters in here to pick on. Since I said several times that I do not care for gacha and am happy to see it go, and would prefer no new system at all (so I really not know why you tell me to look past gacha lmao) ...just simple click and buy the old fashioned way. I got the impression we actually seem to have a similar stand on this topic but probably I'm wrong.

You originally wrote: 

"Have I said that it's smart? I have a real job. But I do not lack the empathy to feel for people that do make money in SL, it's not only "stupid" or "crazy" people. It's disabled people or people with anxiety or the stay-at-home  Mom that have found a way to feel worthy that way. So saying 7 days enough let's nuke their hard work? You can say that and be happy I would personally just feel bad to think that way.

and let's not forget that those "crazy" people...are part of the reason SL is what it is today. If there wouldn't have been some people in love with SL enough to create, and build SL would be a pretty empty and boring place.

I am not unhappy to see gacha go, but I also do not forget that there are humans on both sides, customers and creators.

I also do not want lucky vendors, conveyer belts and all that jazz but I will probably have to deal with some gacha in disguise 🥸 that is on the edge to what is legal...and it's fine because I do have a choice to use it or not as a customer."

Your English is certainly good enough for you to intentionally choose words which I did not use and the words you chose were extreme and then you put those words in quotes no less because you wanted to emphasize your intent.  

Your entire premise is about people who make and sell Gachas and make money in SL and misquoting what I said. Then you cite specific types of people who derive self worth from selling things in SL which seems rather belittling. I think everyone derives something from SL and maybe some folks across a WIDE spectrum of diversity find some sense of self worth but that too is a dangerous road if SL were to go belly up - where will their self worth come from then?

No one else who creates and sells content directly is affected by the Gachas getting nixed. They will keep doing what they do.  And people will keep buying their stuff. And the Gacha void will be filled by more schemes to part residents from their $L's.

And there will be 5,754,985,657,656,453 more weekly and weekend sales events ranging from $25L - to $99L and the shops will clean up. And all the other monthly events will keep on keeping on and everyone who wants immediate gratification at higher prices will continue to patronize those events. 

I pointed out, though, it's not wise (opposite of foolish is wise just to be clear) to build a dependent income on top of another company you have no control over because in your OP I first replied to you were pining about a shop who did just that.

And no one was given seven days to stop making Gachas. It ends at the end of the month and there will likely be some leeway for people to transition.

And since your fav store only sells Gachas, it sure seems like you definitely buy them. 

And I did not pick on you. Your post caught my eye because you stated your fav store creator "made a living" exclusively selling Gacha merchandise which, as it turns out, was not a wise decision as I have reiterated.  It rather proves my point that creating an income dependence on a business you have no control over is, again, rather foolish.

That creator could have sold their merchandise directly like most shops do and had a few Gacha machines but they chose not to because they knew they would rake in more $$$ selling people things they did not want or need to get the thing they wanted or needed to complete an outfit, so no, I'm not falling into a puddle of empathy over that person's temporary loss because they chose an avenue that would boost their sales at the expense of buyers. No one forced them to sell Gachss. They knew exactly what they were doing by selling only through Gacha machines.  They gambled and lost. Which is rather ironic.

However...

My sympathy goes out to the stores/creators who will have to deal with the mechanics involved to switch over from Gachas to direct sales which is a pain in the ass.  It's not hard, it's just tedious and time consuming. 

I know that store you mentioned in your OP, they make cute things and with newer events like the Kawaii Sunday thing, they should be able to reposition their merchandise. People who love their merchandise, like you, will still buy it and now you will be able to get exactly what you want without getting raked over the coals playing Gachas. And the store may find they will gain a lot of new customers who loathed the Gacha machines but like their merchandise and will gladly buy their stuff directly at a fair price.  That sounds like a win/win to me.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

Conveyor belts, gacha, etc from their ancestral home:

 

[Yingzi Xue]

I can empathize with creators, sellers and resellers over the banning of gacha.  However... the situation they find themselves in is of their own making.

Rares

What constitutes a rare item?  Is it the extra work that goes into making an item unique?  Is it the creator's emphasis on said item?  Or is it the vendor script that makes it rare?  Aside from the first question—the creative aspect—said "rare" status of the item is artificially produced and presented to the customer.  Can extra work make an item truly rare?  No.  It's the selling method the creator chooses to use, to limit the purchase of said product.

Campers, Traffic and Lag

What causes camping, traffic and lag issues?  The elusive item?  The timed freebie?  Is it the potential customer pining after them?  No.  These are problems caused and reinforced by the creators and sellers who use scripted methods to limit access to said items, thereby making them artificially hard to get.

The false sense of the rare.  The elusive item.  The issues with campers, traffic and lag are self-inflicted by the creators and sellers that present these methods to their customers.  The customers then adjust their behavior, to obtain an artificial rare through the means they have—camping, clicking, etc.

Yes, using these methods can increase sales, but they introduce a host of problems that shouldn't exist if the products were sold outright, not withholding them from the customer through artificial means.

It's a clever tactic.  Present the prize, then make it hard to get.  While it may be a dopamine goldmine, the consequences are many.

Cause and Effect

The issues I see complained about on this forum, by creators and sellers of gacha and the future problems of the potential conveyor system(s), and others that exist now, like lucky chairs, et al... are caused the creators and sellers themselves and how they choose to sell their products.

The problems being discussed here, because of said systems being used, should give pause to creators who seek to place their products behind constructs, to artificially inflate their value.  The conveyor system exposes what was hidden behind the gacha gambling mechanic; machines of excess profit and dopamine manipulation.   Problems with other systems should be readily apparent.  There are countless innovative ways to sell products and fix the problems that exist today.  Innovate, don't manipulate.

There is value in a special item that took longer to create.  Charge the appropriate price and it will sell.  If you can't sell your products without some sketchy methodology, then maybe you shouldn't be creating and selling products.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Yingzi Xue

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Conveyor belts, gacha, etc from their ancestral home:

 

They must have had like 25 to 30 plates.. hehehehe

[Pixels Sideways]

1 hour ago, Dictatorshop said:

SL is my day job, as it happens, crazy foolish or not, LOL.  I have learned over the years that Life is full of uncertainty any company you work for or with can go under or shift gears radically at any time, ***** happens.  Control is a fake construct we make for our own sanity.  Do you really think you have control over the world?  Now, *that* is crazy, LOL!  My hubby was laid off from his RL job last year due to covid, companies all over the place have gone under due to a global pandemic.  It made me realize how much I love creating in SL, it also made me consider what would happen if it suddenly up and vanished one day.  Skills translate, you get a new gig using the skills you have somewhere else.  Its the same for SL as RL in that respect.  SL creation skills can go to other virtual worlds, games assets, making turbosquid assets or something, who knows, but nothing is wasted. 

As I said in the very first page of this nearly 150 page long thread, I feel for those that are taking this hit hard with the loss of gachas, but consider it a layoff of one type of income and an opportunity for something else rather than trying to just keep milking the same dead gacha cow.  At this point all anyone is doing is crying over the spilled milk and trying to figure out how to sponge some of it back up in some other fashion.  yuck.  Move on.

I never implied that we have control over everything in this world.  My focus was on SL and making it an exclusive source of dependent income.

It's good you've thought about this. I'd say not that many folks have thought this through about life after SL if they created dependent income here.

Gaming/animation/vfx has, for years, been outsourcing work overseas. Disney is building their new animation company in Canada. And pro game companies have high design and skill standards that are specific to their game aesthetics. So yes, you may be at that pro level where your skill sets you developed in SL will translate over should SL go away.  And while there has been an increase in 3D creation gigs because there has been a lot more CGI animation/vfx work because of Covid halting live productions, there are still high standards and a limited number of jobs.

In the gaming industry, SL is an outlier. It's unique because the assets are not controlled or optimized within strict specifications and are made by users of all skill levels.  You can come up with an idea, play with it, model it, maybe you rig it too and texture it and then create a shop to sell it in - and that is your tiny cosmos of creation pipeline.  In the pro gaming, animation or vfx world, you would most likely be creating a specific part of an asset in that pipeline with very little control over the overall creative process which you are used to.  It's essentially a factory whereas SL is an DIY artisan studio. 

Other VR worlds have commerce but as I recently learned from a very popular content creator in SL, lack the security that SL does. Their stuff was released into the wild with full perms when a popular grid closed down. so there are those challenges. 

Tubisquid and other 3D asset sales sites can generate some income but the quality there is typically higher than SL and to max sales, you'd be best to offer assets in at least couple of different file types. 

Age and gender also limit opportunity, The gaming industry is a misogynistic cesspool.

If your skills and the content assets you create are really good, then you should be able to find something.  Most people who make things in SL are not at the pro level, do not have access to expensive rigs and software and do a lot of work texturing mesh templates made by others  they have purchased. 

Yes,  there is Blender but it is not the game industry standard like Maya, Zbrush, Houdini, Cinema 3D, Autodesk 3d Max, etc. 

If you've mastered Maya then you are way ahead in landing a gig at a pro gaming, animation or vfx company. 

As for nothing being wasted, everything in your inventory that you did not create will be wasted when SL ends.  You may not own a lot of things created by others because you create your own things, but the majority of SL residents, including creators, have significant investments in their inventories of merchandise they have purchased from folks like you over several years. 

 

Not trying to discourage here but there are people who think making a cube in Blender is going to land them a gig at Pixar. 

If you want to look at the creative and skill levels of CGI gaming, animation and vfx professionals from around the world, join the Facebook group called 10,000 Hours https://www.facebook.com/groups/tenthousandhours/ and peruse the Art Station website https://www.artstation.com/?sort_by=trending that also has a marketplace.  That many of these amazing CGI artists are looking for work - and getting turned down -  is an indication of the high standards the pro studios demand.

[Ceka Cianci]

4 minutes ago, Pixels Sideways said:

I never implied that we have control over everything in this world.  My focus was on SL and making it an exclusive source of dependent income.

It's good you've thought about this. I'd say not that many folks have thought this through about life after SL if they created dependent income here.

Gaming/animation/vfx has, for years, been outsourcing work overseas. Disney is building their new animation company in Canada. And pro game companies have high design and skill standards that are specific to their game aesthetics. So yes, you may be at that pro level where your skill sets you developed in SL will translate over should SL go away.  And while there has been an increase in 3D creation gigs because there has been a lot more CGI animation/vfx work because of Covid halting live productions, there are still high standards and a limited number of jobs.

In the gaming industry, SL is an outlier. It's unique because the assets are not controlled or optimized within strict specifications and are made by users of all skill levels.  You can come up with an idea, play with it, model it, maybe you rig it too and texture it and then create a shop to sell it in - and that is your tiny cosmos of creation pipeline.  In the pro gaming, animation or vfx world, you would most likely be creating a specific part of an asset in that pipeline with very little control over the overall creative process which you are used to.  It's essentially a factory whereas SL is an DIY artisan studio. 

Other VR worlds have commerce but as I recently learned from a very popular content creator in SL, lack the security that SL does. Their stuff was released into the wild with full perms when a popular grid closed down. so there are those challenges. 

Tubisquid and other 3D asset sales sites can generate some income but the quality there is typically higher than SL and to max sales, you'd be best to offer assets in at least couple of different file types. 

Age and gender also limit opportunity, The gaming industry is a misogynistic cesspool.

If your skills and the content assets you create are really good, then you should be able to find something.  Most people who make things in SL are not at the pro level, do not have access to expensive rigs and software and do a lot of work texturing mesh templates made by others  they have purchased. 

Yes,  there is Blender but it is not the game industry standard like Maya, Zbrush, Houdini, Cinema 3D, Autodesk 3d Max, etc. 

If you've mastered Maya then you are way ahead in landing a gig at a pro gaming, animation or vfx company. 

As for nothing being wasted, everything in your inventory that you did not create will be wasted when SL ends.  You may not own a lot of things created by others because you create your own things, but the majority of SL residents, including creators, have significant investments in their inventories of merchandise they have purchased from folks like you over several years. 

 

Not trying to discourage here but there are people who think making a cube in Blender is going to land them a gig at Pixar. 

If you want to look at the creative and skill levels of CGI gaming, animation and vfx professionals from around the world, join the Facebook group called 10,000 Hours https://www.facebook.com/groups/tenthousandhours/ and peruse the Art Station website https://www.artstation.com/?sort_by=trending that also has a marketplace.  That many of these amazing CGI artists are looking for work - and getting turned down -  is an indication of the high standards the pro studios demand.

I bolded the bottom line, because I don't think many of those people on that site are lacking the skills.. I think it's more an over saturated with talent, industry. 

I enjoyed looking at that site and thank you for posting that link.

[Pixels Sideways]

4 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I bolded the bottom line, because I don't think many of those people on that site are lacking the skills.. I think it's more an over saturated with talent, industry. 

I enjoyed looking at that site and thank you for posting that link.

I agree. And with a saturated market, the studios can be even more selective in choosing the best of the best.  

[Velk Kerang]

On 8/4/2021 at 10:38 AM, Marigold Devin said:

immoral ... (oh my!).

Nothing immoral about Gachas mate. People just need something to piss and moan about. Today it's Gachas. Tomorrow it will be lucky chairs and mm boards or some stupid crap like that. lol😎

On 8/4/2021 at 11:01 AM, Deathly Fright said:

less good creators making things, less people want to stay and spend money in SL. leading to less creators because of less people, and then SL itself death spiraling.

This is already happening as we speak mate. A lot of people are leaving simply because they are tired of the BS. A lot of content creators feel like they got screwed over. Bottom line. Honestly I don't blame them one bit. Even I got one foot out the door. Not because of the Gacha thing only personally, but for other reasons as well.😎

Now days I'm just finding myself enjoying my time more playing Fortnite and Conan Exiles on a custom modded private server I set up for friends and family who need or want to take a break off of here. Because there if people want loot boxes which is what folks want to claim Gachas are then they can have them. I don't mind adding them. Can't nobody tell me shirt on my server. lol I make the rules. lol The combat is better then SL combat anyway. lol👍

The thing is this is where we really see the differences between Second Life and Real Life. In RL people have the option and choice whether to comply or protest in opposition. Not so much on SL. It's comply or be banned and once someone is banned on SL it takes a serious act of congress and divine intervention for someone to get unbanned. There are cases where LL has been quick on the trigger prior to having all of the information and ban someone and the amount of crap a person has to go threw to get it sorted is insane. I know about two people at least who got requested to send them a copy of their ID which was ludicrous to me.🙄

People should not have to do all of that just to get a situation with their account sorted out. It's witnessing those type of situations that made me seriously question the amount of money I am shelling in supporting this platform and one of the many reasons why I dialed it down a lot. I sit back and I'm just watching how this whole Gacha situation is being handled and I'm just not impressed at all.🙄

What amazes me most is we are in the middle of a global pandemic and this is the crap people choose to cry about? Seriously? This is what's important to people? lol Talk about priorities. Wow. Just wow. lol🤦‍♂️😎

Edited August 10, 2021 by Velk Kerang
Corrections.

[Luna Bliss]

On 8/7/2021 at 4:23 PM, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

On 8/7/2021 at 3:24 PM, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, the IRS is getting more strict as we've increasingly moved online in so many respects.

In the past one didn't have to report hobby income under a certain amount, but now even that has to be reported    

So you are saying that regardless if you withdraw the money any net profit has to be reported to the IRS? Good luck with that. So all these hosts and DJ's are supposed to be reporting the lindens they earned?

I'm simply reporting the rules, not suggesting how/if people will abide by them. Best to check the IRS website or make an appointment with a competent public accountant or tax attorney.

[OptimoMaximo]

55 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I bolded the bottom line, because I don't think many of those people on that site are lacking the skills.. I think it's more an over saturated with talent, industry. 

I enjoyed looking at that site and thank you for posting that link.

And @Pixels Sideways Look, I'm one of those that are on Artstation and I currently work as  pipeline TD in RL, from being a modeler, then rigger and finally pipeline department. I also have been an instructor at schools in my hometown and online mentor for quite a few years, including teaching at Builders brewery Blender first, then Maya, while a few of my RL students landed jobs at FrameByFrame studio for vfx in Rome, Italy where I live and taught, and others relocated to the UK to game studios. My mastery of Maya led me to take my latest gig in pipeline development in a startup studio focused on cartoon animation, while in SL I moved from occasional avatar creation to develop and maintain the only 2 plug ins for Maya specifically aimed at SL creations. This is the background to explain the background that sits behind what I'm gonna talk about next

Unfortunately, it's not as you may think it is. The market is saturated of talents to some extent, but it's your network that plays the major role. I've seen people with so much less experience and lesser quality products jump over me and my students for jobs we applied for, for the sole reason of having the right connections.

And for what it's worth, only few, old timer game studios work based off of 3dsmax. They're major studios, still just few. The way to go is Maya, and a few others look for Blender artists (namely one I had contact with in the near past is Ubisoft Milan, many animators in there use Blender. But the work culture in there is exploitative of their resources, and would never recommend it to anyone with a little bit of experience. Maybe good for CV building to have that company name if you're an entry level, but certainly not a good place to plan a career in the industry)

Eta: also wanted to add, that 80% of my RL students that made it into the industry are women

Edited August 10, 2021 by OptimoMaximo

[Ceka Cianci]

4 minutes ago, OptimoMaximo said:

Look, I'm one of those that are on Artstation and I currently work as  pipeline TD in RL, from being a modeler, then rigger and finally pipeline department. I also have been an instructor at schools in my hometown and online mentor for quite a few years, including teaching at Builders brewery Blender first, then Maya, while a few of my RL students landed jobs at FrameByFrame studio for vfx in Rome, Italy where I live and taught, and others relocated to the UK to game studios. My mastery of Maya led me to take my latest gig in pipeline development in a startup studio focused on cartoon animation, while in SL I moved from occasional avatar creation to develop and maintain the only 2 plug ins for Maya specifically aimed at SL creations. This is the background to explain the background that sits behind what I'm gonna talk about next

Unfortunately, it's not as you may think it is. The market is saturated of talents to some extent, but it's your network that plays the major role. I've seen people with so much less experience and lesser quality products jump over me and my students for jobs we applied for, for the sole reason of having the right connections.

And for what it's worth, only few, old timer game studios work based off of 3dsmax. They're major studios, still just few. The way to go is Maya, and a few others look for Blender artists (namely one I had contact with in the near past is Ubisoft Milan, many animators in there use Blender. But the work culture in there is exploitative of their resources, and would never recommend it to anyone with a little bit of experience. Maybe good for CV building to have that company name if you're an entry level, but certainly not a good place to plan a career in the industry)

 

So many industries are like that..

Like the old saying goes, It's not what you know, but who you know..

Even in the trades it's the same..

[Jaylinbridges]

4 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

 

I posted the same video on Page 78 of this thread on Aug. 4.  They used 35 empty plates, which of course they had to buy, for seven attempts at winning the Gacha prize, and never won a thing.  A family restaurant (meaning kids w/ parents) and a gambling scheme aimed at your stomach.  Two kids and their father ate 35 plates of sushi in one setting? I know sushi is not that filling, but it goes down easier with a good Japanese beer.  

This is entirely legal in Japan, as is all Gacha except the Complete Gacha games.

This scheme to get you to Buy, Buy, Buy! as the title says, could be called Gacha with tokens and there is no guarantee you will ever win a prize.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Elizabeth Burleigh]

On 8/9/2021 at 12:44 PM, Aria Fae said:

you want to see creator greed .... one of the stores that i bought from (not sure whether i will in the future) is selling fatpacks of gachas for 10k ....

And yet, those of us who never (or rarely) created for gachas usually sell our fatpacks for L$1000 - L$3000 (some higher, yes, but I've never seen one for 10K).

[So Whimsy]

Once september comes I'll happily splurge Linden on fatpacks once they're made from the obsolete gacha's. If they're repackaged into a conveyor belt type of machine..they're not likely to get my dough.

[AriaMoonlit]

16 minutes ago, So Whimsy said:

Once september comes I'll happily splurge Linden on fatpacks once they're made from the obsolete gacha's. If they're repackaged into a conveyor belt type of machine..they're not likely to get my dough.

Yeah the whole trying to find a way around the ban is awful. Though ,what price is TOO MUCH for a fatpack? 

[Gwin LeShelle]

24 minutes ago, So Whimsy said:

Once september comes I'll happily splurge Linden on fatpacks once they're made from the obsolete gacha's. If they're repackaged into a conveyor belt type of machine..they're not likely to get my dough.

Same for me XD I will more than happily buy color packs or fat packs or singles but put it in a conveyorbelt-tron and I won't touch it! 

[hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian]

21 minutes ago, AriaMoonlit said:

Yeah the whole trying to find a way around the ban is awful. Though ,what price is TOO MUCH for a fatpack? 

Creators - and by extension us consumers -  are about to find out. I, too, am looking forward to September, but I'm also a bit nervous. 10,000L$ for a fatpack? Hell no. Thing is, at that price, creators don't need that many customers, and I have no doubt they will find them. So...too bad for the rest of us?

[Rowan Amore]

With apologies to @Ceka Cianciour resident horse enthusiast.  

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

7 minutes ago, hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian said:

Creators - and by extension us consumers -  are about to find out. I, too, am looking forward to September, but I'm also a bit nervous. 10,000L$ for a fatpack? Hell no. Thing is, at that price, creators don't need that many customers, and I have no doubt they will find them. So...too bad for the rest of us?

If someone wants to spend almost $50 RL on a fatpack of Gatcha's then they can have them.  I would not be one to be spending that kind of money on a set of anything that can go "poof" tomorrow if SL closes.  One would be good enough for me.

[So Whimsy]

9 minutes ago, hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian said:

Creators - and by extension us consumers -  are about to find out. I, too, am looking forward to September, but I'm also a bit nervous. 10,000L$ for a fatpack? Hell no. Thing is, at that price, creators don't need that many customers, and I have no doubt they will find them. So...too bad for the rest of us?

We can only speculate at this point as will the merchants. I think there will be some sort of adjustement period where things will find a median between too cheap and too expensive. It also depends on how many pieces are in the gacha and of course the quality. 10,000L seems like a lot if say, there's say an outfit in 6 different colors. But if it's a home and garden gacha with a house and 39 other unique items then 10k doesn't sound as much anymore.