Drayke Newall Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Just now, Nameis17 said: besides the word "law" do you know other words? and if there are people against it, then maybe this is not the right law? What do you mean by people? It is entire governments that are making these things illegal. If you dont like it try and sue the EU Government, UK Government, Netherlands Government, Belgium Government etc. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loveless Oompa Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 This is good, bye bye gatcha! cheers to Linden Lab's team 💜 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akane Nacht Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 18 minutes ago, Nameis17 said: if you do not like gacha, then you can just walk by, but this does not mean that you need to ban and deprive people of joy and happiness I did walk by. But now LL has made the decision, I must say I support it, and I think it will make for better business practices and customer experience all around, and am sure good designers will be able to adapt and still be profitable. I hope you find some other source for joy and happiness because it doesn't look like they will budge on this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) It's crazy some think they can just bully LL and others into keeping gachas, entirely missing the part about how everything coming from LL on this subject is being passed by lawyers (hence the delay & brevity). Gachas are done. Dead. We had our fun, and now somewhere deep inside LL legal, the lesser of two evils has been determined to close them down and move on. Think for just a moment what the other greater evil might have been and how upset we would all be if that was the news being discussed here. Yes, I'm upset about it too. It sucks. But we as community need to understand that at the end of the day our interests and LL's are fundamentally aligned. To paraphrase our wolfsome overlord's party analogy, we just ran out of pizza, do we spend the right of the night crying about it and trying to make things that look like pizza from the scraps in the trash, or do we get busy making jello cake and character sheets for the midnight D&D session. Patch has been making maps and I'm hoping Alexa can DM. Edited August 4, 2021 by Coffee Pancake 14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 22 minutes ago, Nameis17 said: if you do not like gacha, then you can just walk by, but this does not mean that you need to ban and deprive people of joy and happiness Linden Lab has made this decision for legal reasons to protect themselves. It's not about "depriving people of joy and happiness". 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayke Newall Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: It's crazy some think they can just bully LL and others into keeping gachas, entirely missing the part about how everything coming from LL on this subject is being passed by lawyers (hence the delay & brevity). I think the interesting thing to note in Patch's update in the FAQ is that they have refused to extend the policy deadline outside of their announced 30 days. This implies that something is happening that we residents are not aware of outside of Linden Lab and it is coming sooner rather than later. That is to say it isn't pre-emptive but reactionary. Also interesting is that the FAQ specifically states that they are working with "external counsel" that is even more telling something behind the scene is happening outside of LL as LL have their own inhouse general counsel who is David Kim. Edited August 4, 2021 by Drayke Newall 8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowed Luik Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said: How about you read the info for yourself? http://www.7seasfishing.com/ I have read it, which is why i asked my question in the first place. Buying bait allows the fisher to gain experience and level up. Certain fish are only available with pro rods, leveling up and using bait. Every cast with bait does NOT result in a fish or experience points, just like real fishing. So it is a gamble if you use bait as to what the expected outcome is - maybe points, maybe fish or maybe nothing. Where as a gacha, every pull gains an object, even if not the object you are hoping for. I'm seriously not anti-7Seas, but I'm failing to see the distinction from gambling in its current form or why changing the fish permissions makes it ok in LL's book. Now, if LL had said not more special perks if you pay the game (the special fish or the experience points), that, to me anyway, would make it not a gamble since you arent pumping money into it. By this example, if you played the gacha free for the commons (baitless, free fishing) but had to pay to get a chance at certain rares (equivalency of leveling up and using bait) and they changed the perms to no trans, gachas should be considered not gambling as well. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoey Winsmore Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 19 minutes ago, Nameis17 said: no, I'll do it differently, I'll just delete this game and Linden Lab will not receive a percentage of the sale LOL YES, that will hurt Linden Lab. While you are at it for the SLexit, send Linden Lab a few huge bags of nuts. I mean, some American CableTV did cave in going further with a tv show that got cancelled. Maybe that will help keeping gachas for your enjoyment around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet67 Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 i feel like your making a mistake due to the fact that creators work hard to make stuff for secondlife and your alienating your users who like gachas will there be a diffrent way to do so its fun do do gachas the thrill of geting an item from a machine thats what there for is there a way for creators to earn money in some way? im scared for the future of secondlife in genral and im worried ppl will stop playing secondlife cause of the lack of that feature... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, never Franizzi said: yes I read that.. my question was actually if Lindens actually ever played 7seas... not that I couldn't read. The "if they are not" was my cue that they dont actually participate in second life enough to know what residents are doing. but thank you for answering no ones question There was a time when 7seas fish and items were not transferable. Even if the items that 7seas now offers (direct from them) are transferable, there are still people that load up their own prizes for people to "fish up", that are both transferable and not. There's actually a pretty wide variety of things one can fish for in the game. So, yes, it is possible that even if LL employees themselves participated in 7seas fishing, they may not know which items are or are not transferable. It is better to have a blanket "items cannot be transferable" policy than to try and figure every individual thing out. It covers all locations that use 7seas, whether they use fish/prizes provided by 7seas themselves, or their own prizes. This has nothing to do with LL not knowing what their residents are doing. Some items are, some items aren't, in order to make the entire 7seas game allowed, a blanket policy needs to be in place for it. I should've probably prefaced this by saying I have made a LOT of items for people to put in 7seas fishing areas, including my own in the past. Some items were transfer, some were not. If I continued to do this, which I am working on actually, I need to comply with the same rules as everyone else. None of the prizes I make for this system moving forward, can be transfer. Easy peasy, I can do that. Edited August 4, 2021 by Tari Landar 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ananoelle Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 12 minutes ago, Scarlet67 said: i feel like your making a mistake due to the fact that creators work hard to make stuff for secondlife and your alienating your users who like gachas will there be a diffrent way to do so its fun do do gachas the thrill of geting an item from a machine thats what there for is there a way for creators to earn money in some way? im scared for the future of secondlife in genral and im worried ppl will stop playing secondlife cause of the lack of that feature... No need to worry second life will be around well after gachas go byebye ... The Creators can still earn money for their creations. The resellers however, will run out of stock and will no be able to earn anymore money unless they themselves start creating. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyFen Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Gotchas are no where deemed as betting or gambling, You win a prizes everytime you play, gambling involves a chance to lose, with gotchas it is not. I find it sad that LL is turning into snowflakes and trying to disneyfy the game. Im sorry but gotcha are the best content that has came into secondlife since i dont every see LL giving anything away, just countingn the $$$ they ar egetting to bad that will drop dramatically once gotchas are out of the picture. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Nkremos Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 39 minutes ago, Scarlet67 said: i feel like your making a mistake due to the fact that creators work hard to make stuff for secondlife and your alienating your users who like gachas will there be a diffrent way to do so its fun do do gachas the thrill of geting an item from a machine thats what there for is there a way for creators to earn money in some way? im scared for the future of secondlife in genral and im worried ppl will stop playing secondlife cause of the lack of that feature... What part of them complying with international law do you and some other people on here not understand? If Linden Labs doesn't do this that's it for second life. They'll be told "Either change it or we're blocking access to second life in our country." You know how many people would actually lose money if that were to happen? How many lives that would mess up? Gachas have to go 15 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
So Whimsy Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, ZacharyFen said: Gotchas are no where deemed as betting or gambling The entire reason Gacha's are going away is because they are deemed gambling in several legislations. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorientje Woller Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ZacharyFen said: Gotchas are no where deemed as betting or gambling, You win a prizes everytime you play, gambling involves a chance to lose, with gotchas it is not. I find it sad that LL is turning into snowflakes and trying to disneyfy the game. Im sorry but gotcha are the best content that has came into secondlife since i dont every see LL giving anything away, just countingn the $$$ they ar egetting to bad that will drop dramatically once gotchas are out of the picture. You pay an amount of money, whether this is real money or virtual money or even potato chips, in order to play a game based on chance not skill, aka the player has no control over the outcome, makes it betting or gambling. Whether the device, gacha machine, turns out each time an item of value doesn't matter at all. Edited August 4, 2021 by Dorientje Woller 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyFen Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Just now, So Whimsy said: The entire reason Gacha's are going away is because they are deemed gambling in several legislations. Guess these folks need to understand what gambling is because gambling does'nt include always winning. Its only gamling if there are chances to lose your bet. These are prizes boxes with random prizes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
So Whimsy Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Just now, ZacharyFen said: Guess these folks need to understand what gambling is because gambling does'nt include always winning. Its only gamling if there are chances to lose your bet. These are prizes boxes with random prizes. If the item you win is by chance, then that's gambling. You can argue about this all you want but the writing is in black and white and Linden Lab has to obey or worse things can and will happen like countries being blocked from SL or SL as a whole shutting down. The situation is that dire. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyFen Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Dorientje Woller said: You pay an amount of money, whether this is real money or virtual money or even potato chips, in order to play a game based on chance not skill, aka the player has no control over the outcome, makes it betting or gambling. Whether the device, gacha machine, turns out each time an item of value doesn't matter at all. You have to lose in order for it to be a bet or gamble, your winning a prize no matter what the charge is, Its a set price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apopsy Hax Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 no loot boxes? what about these card games like Magic The Gathering or others? They just have better lawyers? dont understand it.. I would more think games like NoDevil have to disappear than Gachas because I doubt you have _always_ the chance to win with good skill.. I play NoDevil myself.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ananoelle Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Just now, ZacharyFen said: Guess these folks need to understand what gambling is because gambling does'nt include always winning. Its only gamling if there are chances to lose your bet. These are prizes boxes with random prizes. I want that rare .... I NEED that RARE .. PLEASE PLEASE give me the RARE .. oh doh .... underwear AGAIN AGAIN I want that rare ... I NEED that RARE ... PLEASE PLEASE give me the RARE .. oh doh same underwear in blue I'd say that person lost? 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Just now, ZacharyFen said: You have to lose in order for it to be a bet or gamble, your winning a prize no matter what the charge is, Its a set price. My local casino will bring me free booze if I keep feeding the slots. Am I loosing money or winning really expensive watery drinks? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyFen Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) PEOPLE GAMBLING INCLUDES LOSING MONEY YOUR NOT LOSING MONEY FROM GATCHAS THEY ARE PRIZE MACHINE WHERE YOU WIN EVERY TIME AND CAN RESALE THE ITEMS YOU HAVE DUPLICATES OF. Was this clear enough for folks to understand or do i need to go down a few grades. Edited August 4, 2021 by ZacharyFen correction 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorientje Woller Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, ZacharyFen said: Guess these folks need to understand what gambling is because gambling does'nt include always winning. Its only gamling if there are chances to lose your bet. These are prizes boxes with random prizes. It is gambling as you have forsaken already 2 points of the describtion of gambling: 1. You pay money, real or virtual. 2. Outcome is based on chance, not skill Once more, that you get each time an item of value is no longer a point of discussion after forsaking the first 2 points. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoey Winsmore Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, ZacharyFen said: Guess these folks need to understand what gambling is because gambling does'nt include always winning. Its only gamling if there are chances to lose your bet. These are prizes boxes with random prizes. And maybe you just need to understand that it is the "random" that LL wants to end. It's not rocket science. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorientje Woller Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, ZacharyFen said: PEOPLE GAMBLING INCLUDES LOSING MONEY YOUR NOT LOSING MONEY FROM GATCHAS THEY ARE PRIZE MACHINE WHERE YOU WIN EVERY TIME. Was this clear enough for folks to understand or do i need to go down a few grades. So in your mind paying for example 75 Linden for a gacha and getting in return an item that is worth 40 linden isn't losing money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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