Miele Castaignede Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 So here is the legal definition of gambling: Gambling is accepting, recording, or registering bets, or carrying on a policy game or any other lottery, or playing any game of chance, for money or other thing of value. Title 18, U.S.C., Sec. 1955, makes it a federal crime or offense for anyone to conduct an 'illegal gambling business. ' Our personal opinions of the definition or of the law are irrelevant. Linden Labs isn't out to deprive anyone of anything. They're just trying to keep their business going and provide their users with a fun experience. I personally enjoy gachas. But if I have to choose between gachas and being able to log into Second Life, I'm picking SL. 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoey Winsmore Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Miele Castaignede said: But if I have to choose between gachas and being able to log into Second Life, I'm picking SL. Yes, I agree, me too. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
So Whimsy Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, ZacharyFen said: PEOPLE GAMBLING INCLUDES LOSING MONEY YOUR NOT LOSING MONEY FROM GATCHAS THEY ARE PRIZE MACHINE WHERE YOU WIN EVERY TIME AND CAN RESALE THE ITEMS YOU HAVE DUPLICATES OF. Was this clear enough for folks to understand or do i need to go down a few grades. Yelling doesn't make your statement true. Just FYI. 4 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplemint Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) 76 pages later, it's clear that people have many feelings and many questions about what's going on. I've been obsessively watching the Olympics so haven't really been on SL that much. It's been a bit since I've processed the end of gacha and part of me is still quite disappointed to see them go. I understand the legal reasons why LL is making this decision but I will miss visiting gacha resellers and looking around at their virtual yard sales. Yes, they'll still be around after the end of gacha, but eventually their stock will dry out and they will be all gone. Apologies if I've missed this on the thread, but I don't see it in the FAQ and I'm still curious: How does LL plan to reach the folks that may not go on the forums? There are many people in SL who do not frequent the forums. It's possible many folks will not get on fast enough to remove machines before the enforcement period starts. What kind of economic impact do people foresee this will have on SL? Certainly, many gacha creators will retool, but other creators and events will leave or pull those products entirely. Gacha resellers lose their way of making L and LL loses out on all income from MP transaction fees. Revenue from gacha resale sims is going to be gone. I'm guessing the economic impact is better than whatever legal enforcement LL is/may face? Will I leave SL because of gacha ending? No, but I might spend less time playing and less L because one of the activities I enjoyed doing is now gone. Edited August 4, 2021 by simplemint 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Just now, simplemint said: How does LL plan to reach the folks that may not go on the forums? There are many people in SL who do not frequent the forums. It's possible many folks will not get on fast enough to remove machines before the enforcement period starts. @Patch Linden This is a big issue - lots of stores might be on autopilot or run from alts and people won't see the blog or forums. Please send out an email to everyone once the guidance is settled updating them of the policy change. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplemint Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: @Patch Linden This is a big issue - lots of stores might be on autopilot or run from alts and people won't see the blog or forums. Please send out an email to everyone once the guidance is settled updating them of the policy change. After I made my post, I also thought about language barriers - I know many people on SL are English speakers, but not everyone is. Here on the forums, there are sections for specific languages, the knowledge base is in multiple languages, and on Second Life's website, there are different language settings available. Maybe I've missed something, but I see that the blog post and FAQ is only written in English. Is this an important enough message for LL (or resident volunteers) to be translating? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayenne Republic Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 14 hours ago, Cube Republic said: Congratulations on inventing the vendor Nadi making test vendors while everyone else is gnashing teeth. ♥ (and those dragons are awesome!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Nkremos Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 23 minutes ago, ZacharyFen said: Guess these folks need to understand what gambling is because gambling does'nt include always winning. Its only gamling if there are chances to lose your bet. These are prizes boxes with random prizes. Man go take it up with Belgium and other countries where they consider it gambling. Law is law. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ananoelle Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, simplemint said: How does LL plan to reach the folks that may not go on the forums? There are many people in SL who do not frequent the forums. It's possible many folks will not get on fast enough to remove machines before the enforcement period starts. A friend just skyped me to ask about what was happening he is in France. He saw posts while scrolling 'news' on his phone. So I just googled and sure enough a few websites have posted about the changes as well. https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/386104/Second_Life_developer_Linden_Lab_will_ban_gacha_mechanics_later_this_month.php https://www.pcgamer.com/second-life-is-banning-gacha-style-transactions-next-month/ https://modemworld.me/2021/08/02/lab-announces-the-ending-of-gacha-machines-in-second-life/ 6 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: Please send out an email to everyone once the guidance is settled updating them of the policy change. This isnt a bad idea and if not already done maybe a notice on the load screens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixels Sideways Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) Edited August 4, 2021 by Pixels Sideways 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, ananoelle said: https://www.pcgamer.com/second-life-is-banning-gacha-style-transactions-next-month/ That's ... actually pretty nice coverage of SL & LL .. We might just come out of this winning. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplemint Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, ananoelle said: A friend just skyped me to ask about what was happening he is in France. He saw posts while scrolling 'news' on his phone. So I just googled and sure enough a few websites have posted about the changes as well. https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/386104/Second_Life_developer_Linden_Lab_will_ban_gacha_mechanics_later_this_month.php https://www.pcgamer.com/second-life-is-banning-gacha-style-transactions-next-month/ https://modemworld.me/2021/08/02/lab-announces-the-ending-of-gacha-machines-in-second-life/ This isnt a bad idea and if not already done maybe a notice on the load screens. Oh, that's good news! I haven't checked any of those sites lately, but I recognize all of them. Hopefully they will reach people who haven't checked SL in a while. I personally found out when scrolling through Reddit - on that note, if LL is interested in feedback there's a good amount of comments over there on the topic. (There's a very interesting discussion about how/whether creators use gacha to subsidize the cost of production). I've seen a couple of SL YouTubers cover the topic on their channels which is good as well. It may be tough with TPVs, but a notice on load screens could be very useful for the folks who don't check forums but still are logging into SL regularly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velk Kerang Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 On 8/2/2021 at 1:40 PM, Lillani Lowell said: For people who haven't been paying much attention to the gaming atmosphere... Government regulatory bodies have been criticially eyeing loot boxes as the gambling mechanisms they are and starting to enforce new regulations on them in various countries; and gachas are, basically, the exact same thing as a loot box. So, I would imagine that is what is behind this decision. It's better to be ahead of the curve than behind it. I heard about that mate and to be honest and a lot of that I am sure stems off of pissed off parents who's kids are stealing their credit cards and spending it on stuff like that. Which should be a home issue and not a government one. Gacha machines to me aren't even close to being loot boxes, but more related to those little toy machines you used to see in the store where the kid could win a random toy. Which to be honest is perfectly legal. So to sum it up if I understand the situation correctly one of the main sources of revenue and entertainment this game has is being banned which to be entirely honest really isn't a very smart move. It's been a part of Second Life culture for ages now. If it was going to be such an issue then the time to have done this should have been in the beginning. Not years down the road. Maybe it's because I am not a lawyer so I do not fully understand why some of the legal issues of others areas would come in to play, but I've never heard of an mmo making massive community changes because Joe in Jersey can't legally do x, y, and z. It just doesn't make any type of sense to me. Sounds more like a Joe problem then an LL problem. I don't think it's a smart move. I think it will kill interest for a lot of people on this platform as many come up here to collect Gachas. Not me, but many people do. I would urge that LL reconsider and actually stick up for their residents on this one. If it is in fact a case of LL's hands are tied due to some legal mumbo jumbo then I guess we have the whiners to thank for this change. In that regards Second Life will definitely be imitating Real Life. lol😎 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmi Zehetbauer Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Wish they gave a shorter time to eradicate them --- like 7 days and then nuke 'em. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
So Whimsy Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Other than FabFree, Seraphim is also gearing up to publish a last chance Gacha list for those interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Nkremos Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Velk Kerang said: I heard about that mate and to be honest and a lot of that I am sure stems off of pissed off parents who's kids are stealing their credit cards and spending it on stuff like that. Which should be a home issue and not a government one. Gacha machines to me aren't even close to being loot boxes, but more related to those little toy machines you used to see in the store where the kid could win a random toy. Which to be honest is perfectly legal. So to sum it up if I understand the situation correctly one of the main sources of revenue and entertainment this game has is being banned which to be entirely honest really isn't a very smart move. It's been a part of Second Life culture for ages now. If it was going to be such an issue then the time to have done this should have been in the beginning. Not years down the road. Maybe it's because I am not a lawyer so I do not fully understand why some of the legal issues of others areas would come in to play, but I've never heard of an mmo making massive community changes because Joe in Jersey can't legally do x, y, and z. It just doesn't make any type of sense to me. Sounds more like a Joe problem then an LL problem. I don't think it's a smart move. I think it will kill interest for a lot of people on this platform as many come up here to collect Gachas. Not me, but many people do. I would urge that LL reconsider and actually stick up for their residents on this one. If it is in fact a case of LL's hands are tied due to some legal mumbo jumbo then I guess we have the whiners to thank for this change. In that regards Second Life will definitely be imitating Real Life. lol😎 Actually if you have Overwatch or Apex in certain countries you can't buy loot crates. They allow you to buy skins out right. The difference is SL is one large grid. There is no European version of SL that only operates on European servers where it's a micro ecosystem. That's why the change effects all of us. Edited August 4, 2021 by Derek Nkremos 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwin LeShelle Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said: Wish they gave a shorter time to eradicate them --- like 7 days and then nuke 'em. I do agree that law is law, but this would be uncalled cruel. Let's think of stores like Amitomo (one of my favest btw) that 99 percent gacha and many other creators, that make a living off SL. It's nice that you do not have to make a living off SL and neither do I but your answer is disrespectful for people that do. The notice...this very important notice was just published in English, a language surprisingly not everyone in SL speaks. And also it was released on their blog, a thing not everyone follows religiously. So 7 days for the word to get around and for a creator THAT WILL BE PUNISHED after that would be more than short. Edited August 4, 2021 by Gwin LeShelle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryanne Solo Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Dorientje Woller said: Oh dear. I remember that MicroSoft has clearly stated that they, for Windows 10, would change the business model of their OS. This happened way before the initial release of it. BTW, you point your finger to MicroSoft, yet you remain silent over the godfather of OS's that work under the same principle aka the Android OS. Oh I'm sorrry. It's just that I paid for 64x/Pro versions since 95/NT and now we hand our computers over to MS AND pay for the privilege? ->> No chance. I have an Android tablet & phone, (tablet for day job & phone for my mums safety), and couldn't care less about them. The problem with Win 10 was that unbeknownst to me, a new motherboard would ONLY work with Win 10. Kind of like a gacha purchase, yet again o.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ananoelle Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, Derek Nkremos said: Actually if you have Overwatch or Apex in certain countries you can't buy loot crates. They allow you to buy skins out right. also Destiny and Modern Warfare Big games either got rid of lootboxes or made them so you could see what was inside and what rates items were obtained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velk Kerang Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Derek Nkremos said: Actually if you have Overwatch or Apex in certain countries you can't buy loot crates. They allow you to buy skins out right. Your correct and that doesn't effect those communities as a whole. So in terms of this platform they could always restrict it to location then just like they did with the gambling sims before they shut them down. The community as a whole shouldn't have to suffer for it mate. Gachas aren't loot boxes. Not really. Today it's Gachas they are shutting down. What's next? Lucky Chairs and MM Boards? Where does it stop? I mean they can kill their own platform if they want to. It certainly won't have a positive effect on the community. You don't let something become this established on your platform and embedded in to Second Life culture to the degree that this has been and then pull the plug and not expect to loose some revenue over it mate.😎 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayke Newall Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Velk Kerang said: Your correct and that doesn't effect those communities as a whole. So in terms of this platform they could always restrict it to location then just like they did with the gambling sims before they shut them down. Why would Linden Lab do this, wasting time and money they could use elsewhere when 90% of the world where 80% of Second Life's userbase reside is looking to ban gacha's and lootboxes etc? Edited August 4, 2021 by Drayke Newall 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velk Kerang Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Drayke Newall said: Why would Linden Lab do this, wasting time and money they could use elsewhere when 90% of the world where 80% of Second Life's userbase reside is looking to ban gacha's and lootboxes etc? Ya because keeping those business owners who spend a lot on the platform we enjoy and keeping the lights on wouldn't make sense at all right? lol And where do you get your numbers from? I'm just curious because that's bold assumption and way off base mate. lol🤦♂️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewel Nova Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 I have a question for LL, no need for anyone else to respond I have group land with the name GACHA in it. What happens here. I can change the name of the land but do I seriously have to sell and rebuy my land and ask all my tenants to rejoin? I also have a large chat group with Gacha in the name. What would be nice is it just for a one off, anyone with the name gacha in their group can change the name. This would eliminate massive headaches for many people. Can this be covered in the FAQ please? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raya Darkthorn Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 On 8/2/2021 at 12:39 PM, VicariousSally said: What about gacha resellers through marketplace? How will this impact our MP as its NOT a chance sell like the gacha machine itself.... Not sure but it seems re-selling an old gacha item should be ok as it isnt gambling, you know ahead of time what you are buying, only thing will now be how bloody expensive some RARE & ULTRA RARE items will be now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jewel Nova said: I have a question for LL, no need for anyone else to respond I have group land with the name GACHA in it. What happens here. I can change the name of the land but do I seriously have to sell and rebuy my land and ask all my tenants to rejoin? I also have a large chat group with Gacha in the name. What would be nice is it just for a one off, anyone with the name gacha in their group can change the name. This would eliminate massive headaches for many people. Can this be covered in the FAQ please? Land names can be changed ... Region names by LL, but most others by yourself. Groups is a good question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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