New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Silent Mistwalker]

11 minutes ago, Komarimono said:

No, they exist for Greed.  They were designed to make the most profit from the least work.  Same as Carnival games.  I worked a Carnival, what you think as fun, I saw as a sucker.  We paid like, 20 cents for that toy you just spent $20 getting.  Carnival games are considered games of skill though, not gambling by law.

 

Gacha, are considered gambling, by law.  Illegal.  Changing it to - "You can get this item now, and it changes after purchase"  Is still using the Gacha method, and under that law.  EA tried this and failed in court.  What makes you think people in SL, will get away with it?

20 cents? Damn. Those things have gone up in price. 

Oh. Yeah. Retired. Thomas and Bluff City Shows. Himalaya! oops Sorry. Not a ride jock. 🤭

[Deathly Fright]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

Explain to me exactly what the point of this new vendor is?    Explain to me why anyone would buy an item, even if they know what it is yet don't really want it, just in the hope that the next item up will be the one they want.  You're buying that unwanted item on the chance that the next item is the one you really want.

What I'm asking is why?  It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

the point is that it's just a random vendor, serving out random things. the blind part of gatchas is what makes them gatchas. You know each time you buy you know what you're getting.

[CelestineDemetria]

1 minute ago, Deathly Fright said:

the output is known.. it's in the hovertext and the sales window where you pay, so you know. you just don't know the next item

I was meaning those who jam a bunch of things into a folder. And Sell that Stuff Whatever it is as a Random Item.

Ex : On marketplace they label it as Random Purses ( contents of folder unknown to you but the seller it holds a pink, yellow, blue and red. 

You the customer think hmm I want to try my luck and see what I get with a random purse. You make your purchase of Unknown Item all you know is it's a Random Purse, get a blue one... That is still Randomized or Chance. Because beyond the folder just carrying the Blue Purse, it also carried the Pink, Yellow, and Red. You Had 4 chances to get something different. At the time of purchase it is a unknown Item at the point of Sales.- Which isn't called a Gacha but that is Exactly how they work.

[Silent Mistwalker]

11 minutes ago, Deathly Fright said:

ooooh this looks interesting... can you show me where and how?

They had to pay a few billion Euros in fines. 

https://www.pcgamer.com/electronic-arts-faces-euro10-million-fine-over-fifa-loot-boxes-in-the-netherlands/

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

On 8/2/2021 at 1:04 PM, Linden Lab said:

For details about our new policy change regarding gacha, read our blog post. 

For further questions, please join the conversation in this post. 

 

***UPDATE: Due to the sheer volume of responses, it will be difficult for us to attempt to answer all questions in this thread in a systematic way, so we will put put together an FAQ and update the main blog post with it shortly.

BEST NEWS I HAVE HEARD FROM THE LAB! Bravo!

Edited August 4, 2021 by Tarina Sewell

[CelestineDemetria]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

They had to pay a few billion Euros in fines. 

https://www.pcgamer.com/electronic-arts-faces-euro10-million-fine-over-fifa-loot-boxes-in-the-netherlands/

Ouch

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Deathly Fright said:

the point is that it's just a random vendor, serving out random things. the blind part of gatchas is what makes them gatchas. You know each time you buy you know what you're getting.

You still haven't explained why anyone would bother.  Why the seller just doesn't sell it outright, whichever one you want.  I understand the system just not why, on God's green earth, it's something anyone would buy from.

[Nameis17]

On 8/2/2021 at 8:04 PM, Linden Lab said:

For details about our new policy change regarding gacha, read our blog post. 

For further questions, please join the conversation in this post. 

 

***UPDATE: Due to the sheer volume of responses, it will be difficult for us to attempt to answer all questions in this thread in a systematic way, so we will put put together an FAQ and update the main blog post with it shortly.

what's the point of this chat? Linden Lab has already made a decision and they are not interested in people's opinion, like every time they do something, don't you understand it?

[Deathly Fright]

Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

They had to pay a few billion Euros in fines. 

https://www.pcgamer.com/electronic-arts-faces-euro10-million-fine-over-fifa-loot-boxes-in-the-netherlands/

I know they had to.. but I'm asking specifically about what he said here...

Quote

"Changing it to - "You can get this item now, and it changes after purchase"  Is still using the Gacha method, and under that law.  EA tried this and failed in court."

that part, if true, is exactly what I'm asking about... so knowing how a court ruled would be good to know

[Deathly Fright]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

You still haven't explained why anyone would bother.  Why the seller just doesn't sell it outright, whichever one you want.  I understand the system just not why, on God's green earth, it's something anyone would buy from.

 it does not matter why people would bother. what matters, as some have pointed out, if it fulfills the rules and laws.

I totally agree with you that this new "not-gatcha" would still be done for money and still be a gatcha without the name. like I said, I'm playing devil advocate here. I see a lot of creators that rely on gatcha income. I personally don't think they will stick around, so I'm making an argument for a way to keep gatchas but keep them legal.

I don't care if gatchas go away. I don't ever use them, nor does my little store.

[Quistess Alpha]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Explain to me exactly what the point of this new vendor is?    Explain to me why anyone would buy an item, even if they know what it is yet don't really want it, just in the hope that the next item up will be the one they want.  You're buying that unwanted item on the chance that the next item is the one you really want.

What I'm asking is why?  It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

(video was crummy couldn't really understand what it was doing, going to assume it shows the thing you're about to buy then adds another random one,)

It makes sense when you get into the right head-space (thinking as a gambler) when you buy that item, you're not just buying the item, you are (or can put yourself into the headspace of thinking you are) also buying a random chance that the next one is rare/ the one you want. It's really not that different from buying an unopened Gacha-box, except you're one step off. Or you could say to yourself "I'm going to buy the next 10 things even if I don't want them, because there's a decent chance there's be a rare in there" or, "I'll buy the duds until I get a good one".

[Zoey Winsmore]

A creator, that only relies on the income of gachas, is a creator that only does it for the money.  I get it, make as much money as possible and get rich quickly paying out that huge amount of real dollars.  Because it is many people that throw in thousands and thousands of L$'s at a gacha.  And that is why, it will be a good thing gachas come to an end.  Solves getting in debts in the real world too.

[Quistess Alpha]

8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

You still haven't explained why anyone would bother.  Why the seller just doesn't sell it outright, whichever one you want.  I understand the system just not why, on God's green earth, it's something anyone would buy from.

For people who want (ex) 'the green shiny one' playing the gacha to get it is stupid, supposing they can get it from a reseller. It's the people who want to resell the things (thereby absorbing risk from the original creator) and the people who want to feel like their item is special and unique (because it's a rare, and rares are hard to get) that really put money into the things (my opinion, not evidence-based)

[Drayke Newall]

2 minutes ago, Kyle Beckett said:

There have been workarounds before for other policies that LL has allowed, so just take a deep breath and let people discuss solutions rather than scream and run.

Please name any workarounds for policies that have been instigated by LL based on government law. There are only 3 that are based solely on outside government laws.

Gambling (and no this does not include skill gaming in second life as that is different)
Banking
Copyright

All of those have never had any form of workaround implemented.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[Zoey Winsmore]

1 minute ago, Quistess Alpha said:

For people who want (ex) 'the green shiny one' playing the gacha to get it is stupid, supposing they can get it from a reseller. It's the people who want to resell the things (thereby absorbing risk from the original creator) and the people who want to feel like their item is special and unique (because it's a rare, and rares are hard to get) that really put money into the things (my opinion, not evidence-based)

Yeah, that is what I mostly do anyways. If I like something, I look for resellers on the MP.  Instead of trying to get it from a gacha that most times, gives me things I don't want.  It's then cheaper to buy it from a reseller.

[CelestineDemetria]

27 minutes ago, Deathly Fright said:

no you didn't miss anything. just because you don't want the item just means you don't agree with the store policies on how they sell. there is nothing blind about it now, which means no chance is involved.

Does the Quantity of Each Item held in this hypothetical vendor stay constant with any other Item in the vendor? If that was the case then probably maybe, yes. If you knew the Item coming up and you could always no matter what get any of the other Items offered in the vendor.

Like you could always get the color item you would want and not be stuck with some other color cause someone bought all of that color out the vendor, making the other items scarce? All Hypothetical (not you loaded 10 red in 6 blue 6 yellow. Which makes items scarce or harder to get ( I.E a Gacha Scarcity Rare,Common, all based on probability). but they always remain at a Constant 10 red, 10 blue,10 yellow. So you know there is always that quantity to come around if you do not like what's being displayed.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Quistess Alpha said:

For people who want (ex) 'the green shiny one' playing the gacha to get it is stupid, supposing they can get it from a reseller. It's the people who want to resell the things (thereby absorbing risk from the original creator) and the people who want to feel like their item is special and unique (because it's a rare, and rares are hard to get) that really put money into the things (my opinion, not evidence-based)

I completely understand that.  I understand the thrill of getting that rare item.  I understand resellers trying to sell it for 10x what it cost.  I understand regular gachas.  This new vendor while not exact!y the same is still selling a chance that the item you want might be next.  But the thrill is gone.  That thrill when the notice pops up telling you what you have won.  Yeah!! I got the rare on the first try.  This one would be more like...oh hell, I have to buy a stupid pink hat and hope the next item up is the one with sparkles that I really want.   The chance is still there but the thrill is gone.  So, why bother.  Just sell me the dang sparkly hat for 5x the price of the non-sparkly hat.

 

[Very Mysterious]

17 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

I want to get the rare blue item.

I can see that the item displayed is a common and the item behind that is a common
I pay for the shown item in the hope that by a 'chance roll' the item after the ones shown is the rare.

That is still a gacha. It is still me paying for something in the hope that the next item in the order *BASED ON CHANCE* is the item I want.

Technically you could not buy it and wait for someone else to who does want the displayed item, or have some kind of idle timer similar to a lucky chair.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Very Mysterious

[Drayke Newall]

Just now, Very Mysterious said:

Technically you could not buy it and wait for someone else to who does want the displayed item, or have some kind of idle timer similar to a lucky chair.

Congratulations you have just made a lucky chair or an auto scrolling vendor with no arrow buttons to change to the next page both of which already exist in Second Life and of which are hardly used if ever.

[Akane Nacht]

Personally, I'm glad to see gachas go. The novelty was fun at first but now it's almost like shops think it obligatory to hide nice things in a gacha. As many others have said, I'd happily pay full price for the item I want, but if I see it in a gacha I walk away.

Designers, if rarity is a draw, why not do more limited edition items, and charge what you think is fair for the work put into it? If it's good, people will buy. If the draw was the addictiveness of the gacha system only, well, time to find a better business model.

[Very Mysterious]

9 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Congratulations you have just made a lucky chair or an auto scrolling vendor with no arrow buttons to change to the next page both of which already exist in Second Life and of which are hardly used if ever.

Sounds reasonable then, if it's either of those two things it wouldn't be a gacha.

[Kathlen Onyx]

5 minutes ago, Nameis17 said:

if you do not like gacha, then you can just walk by, but this does not mean that you need to ban and deprive people of joy and happiness

WE didn't do it! LL did and it's against the LAW. What part of that do you not get?

[Drayke Newall]

8 minutes ago, Very Mysterious said:

Sounds reasonable then, if it's either of those two things it wouldn't be a gacha.

It isn't that simple. As it will come down to if LL will allow you to pay for the next item to display as then you are paying an amount to see what the next item is, which by definition as Patch Linden said "It is the act of paying for something and in return the item/thing you receive back is based on chance"

It also depends on how Linden Lab define "receive back" as (bolded above). I.e. do they define that as an object, an outcome or both.

:EDIT:

I personally cant see how they would allow either as the outcome whether it be paying for the ability to see the next item or receiving the item instantly is all still based on chance and as others have mentioned before, was something that companies like EA tried and failed in court to use as a bypass.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[Nameis17]

6 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

WE didn't do it! LL did and it's against the LAW. What part of that do you not get?

besides the word "law" do you know other words? and if there are people against it, then maybe this is not the right law?

[Rathgrith027]

1 minute ago, Nameis17 said:

besides the word "law" do you know other words? and if there are people against it, then maybe this is not the right law?

What part of, "Linden Lab has no immunity to the laws of the nations it operates in" do you have trouble understanding?