Zuckerberg Comes for the Metaverse

[Randall Ahren]

47 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Donating yourself to a billion dollar corporation to recapture a little lost nostalgia is about the most depressing endorsement of anything I've ever heard.

I can be a creator in SL and try to get the last two people left of the dying world to use my creations or go to a thriving new world where there will be thousands to use the creations. What's the point of creating if nobody will see or use it? VR is the new thing. Meta is doing what SL should have already done.

[Nick0678]

2 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

I can be a creator in SL and try to get the last two people left of the dying world to use my creations or go to a thriving new world where there will be thousands to use the creations. What's the point of creating if nobody will see or use it? VR is the new thing. Meta is doing what SL should have already done.

Nods. The future is inevitable.. 

I am sure many people still own a VCR and i get it, there's something "special" about it, a feeling of "nostalgia" etc but the world moved on and uses streaming services (Youtube, Netflix, Hulu etc). This is 2021 and in 2 weeks it will be 2022, not 2012.

(...nevertheless one thing is certain, we are talking about products and when products get old they get replaced by new ones. )

[Solar Legion]

That's nice. And quite wrong in every meaningful way.

Second Life will eventually close down - no buts about that. "Meta" is not the future - simple fact. It is a PR move and cash grab by a corporation - also, simple fact.

You are not required to agree. Have fun - just stop pretending, m'kay?

[Qie Niangao]

If I had to bet on the "metaverse" my money would be on Apple, not Meta. I don't see anything in Project Cambria that will substantially grow market share, and Zuck's idea of VR content is pathetic. (Those ads, oh my god, those horrid ads!) Meanwhile, Apple is planning to pour nearly unlimited funds into its content pipeline for TV+ from which even a tiny bit of cross-marketing into its new headset can easily bury Meta (which, let's face it, is all about avoiding Congress, not doing anything "virtually real").

Edited December 17, 2021 by Qie Niangao
aberrant apostrophe

[Maryanne Solo]

If all of the above is the metaverse....🤔
What's the bloomin chorus then...
wheee! my fave gif 

[Tama Suki]

The commercials I saw on Meta, with zuck opening huds and virtual windows in a beautiful apartment with furnishings that would take 500 land impact each in SL are truly ridiculous. Above all the wonderful cinematic-level graphics where it makes people believe they can live in a 60 fps ultra-resolution sci-fi movie moving smoothly without even a microsecond of lag.
Simply ridiculous.
Then there is another very interesting fact that I saw explained in a video of a former FB collaborator youtuber, but unfortunately I don't remember the channel.
He says Meta's biggest weakness is that Zuckerberg prevents any of the users from living in the anonymous. It is practically illegal to open an account there without putting your real first and last name and real profile photo.
Can you imagine if SL demanded the same thing? There would probably be about twenty accounts left and all of the main business would disappear immediately.

[Arielle Popstar]

9 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

 Meta is doing what SL should have already done.

Question would be that if S/L had, would they still be around today or look anything like it does. Here is the take of a Youtuber I watch sometimes with some thoughts on the Meta move:

 

[Coffee Pancake]

8 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

I can be a creator in SL and try to get the last two people left of the dying world to use my creations or go to a thriving new world where there will be thousands to use the creations. What's the point of creating if nobody will see or use it? VR is the new thing. Meta is doing what SL should have already done.

As an individual, IP rights matter .. do you own stuff you create in Meta.

VR is not "the new thing" it's serial hype bubble offender that's been used to pump expectations over and over. It's one of the oldest "future tech" toys in existence.

https://virtualspeech.com/blog/history-of-vr

Of all the people I know with VR gear, (friends, family, developers), NONE are using it regularly in any serious way. Most headsets are gathering dust and get trolleyed out for novelty value or the odd round of beat saber. The answer I get when I ask why is always the same .. it's sometimes fun, sweaty, and tends to result in nausea.

Don't under estimate the nausea, feeling sick is the tip of a huge psychological iceberg that acts as a major brake on usage, people don't use VR unless they are in the mood for VR, and due to the psychological effects, that mood rarely arises in most owners of VR gear.

The second hand market is flooded with "barely used" gear at give away prices. My son paid 10% of retail for his full set up that the previous owner had used twice. He loves it .. and has used it only a handful of times because it makes him feel ill.

 

The statistics are pure projection.

Check out this graph .. the light blue numbers are actual data, the rest is projection.

But it's worse !! EVERYONES GOING TO THE MOON !!

Wow, next year looks awesome for VR, wait .. is it always next year?

Source https://www.statista.com/topics/2532/virtual-reality-vr/#dossierKeyfigures

Hey, did you know you can use google to search within a date range and find all those articles from 2019 that said we would already be on the moon.

 

You know what you wont find statistics for?

Actual usage data.

Why .. because those numbers are terrible and don't support the hype. If they were great, they would be plastered everywhere.

 

But you will find lots of articles, recycled billion dollar industry claims, and statistics proclaiming were on the cusp of the next big thing, that problems will be solved with lower latency, higher framerates and the next generation of gear .. over and over and over again.

[Lindal Kidd]

10 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

...Elon is king of Mars

Yes. Yes, he is!  I for one welcome our new billionaire overlord.

I see where someone proposed that he be appointed Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Lindal Kidd

[animats]

5 hours ago, Tama Suki said:

Above all the wonderful cinematic-level graphics where it makes people believe they can live in a 60 fps ultra-resolution sci-fi movie moving smoothly without even a microsecond of lag.

Go watch the new Unreal Engine 5 "Matrix" demo. If you have a PS5, download the Unreal Engine 5 "Matrix" demo and  explore the 16 square kilometers of city. If not, here's a playthrough. This is not prerendered video. This is a screen capture of someone playing the thing on a PS5.

 

This is what a virtual world can look like.

LL needs to up their game. A lot.

 

[Tama Suki]

26 minutes ago, animats said:

Go watch the new Unreal Engine 5 "Matrix" demo. If you have a PS5, download the Unreal Engine 5 "Matrix" demo and  explore the 16 square kilometers of city. If not, here's a playthrough. This is not prerendered video. This is a screen capture of someone playing the thing on a PS5.

 

This is what a virtual world can look like.

LL needs to up their game. A lot.

 

I know well Unreal Engine 5 but you missing 2 important things,
First you must have a very powerfull machine that not everybody can afford.
Second you must have a very strong internet connection.
Maybe we'll talk about it again when 5G is available to everyone.
Being an SL citizen you should know well what i am talking about.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Tama Suki

[Ardy Lay]

23 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

5G

5G, not to be confused with some sort of WiFi, is PANTS compared to the optical fiber system I am connected to.  Oh, hey, the local 5G gets its Internet connection from my optical fiber, so, there is that.  The 3G and 4G mobile networks also use my fiber.  I don't use "mobile data" at home and will leave that to you, but yeah, 5G can do stuff, depending on what RF spectrum you are connected via.  5G isn't a "speed", it's a bucket of soup of speeds derived from combinations of wavelengths and transmission modes, and, of course, the quality of the backhaul.

29 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

Unreal Engine 5

So, that's all downloaded prior to viewing it?  Hmm.  Hey, if I walk through a scene instead of motoring through it at 70 MPH, and it be presented well with remote storage?

[Nick0678]

1 hour ago, animats said:

Go watch the new Unreal Engine 5 "Matrix" demo. If you have a PS5, download the Unreal Engine 5 "Matrix" demo and  explore the 16 square kilometers of city. If not, here's a playthrough. This is not prerendered video. This is a screen capture of someone playing the thing on a PS5.

 

This is what a virtual world can look like.

LL needs to up their game. A lot.

 

 

This makes Second Life graphics look like Atari...

 

 

[Tama Suki]

21 minutes ago, Ardy Lay said:

5G, not to be confused with some sort of WiFi, is PANTS compared to the optical fiber system I am connected to.  Oh, hey, the local 5G gets its Internet connection from my optical fiber, so, there is that.  The 3G and 4G mobile networks also use my fiber.  I don't use "mobile data" at home and will leave that to you, but yeah, 5G can do stuff, depending on what RF spectrum you are connected via.  5G isn't a "speed", it's a bucket of soup of speeds derived from combinations of wavelengths and transmission modes, and, of course, the quality of the backhaul.

So, that's all downloaded prior to viewing it?  Hmm.  Hey, if I walk through a scene instead of motoring through it at 70 MPH, and it be presented well with remote storage?

What I can say is this: If I try to enter Sinespace with that scrap of my old MacBook Pro and my rough connection I remain frozen in a welcome area even if I set all the graphics parameters to the minimum (if i'm not wrong i remember Sinespace is using an Unreal engine).
In Second Life I still survive quite well, in some areas it is even a smooth experience.
This also reminds me that all the comments and whimsical complaints I read in this forum regarding the SL not being as beautiful as a GTA5 do not take into account the fact that Linden Lab most likely has at the top of their priorities usability the accessibility of this metaworld to a vast and varied audience.

I think it is also very likely that in the near future I believe those at Linden Lab will start making a lot of updates.
Of course, mine are just suppositions, but of all the virtual worlds we have seen born practically only SL survived.

Basically I believe that their policy of keeping their feet firmly on the ground and not wandering or even "cheating" users by promising things that would be unattainable at the moment is a very acceptable thing.

[Tama Suki]

1 minute ago, Nick0678 said:

 

This makes Second Life graphics look like Atari...

 

 

Oh yeah sure. Mars was also much more beautiful than SL i remember. But they closed. Who knows why?

[Coffee Pancake]

18 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

Oh yeah sure. Mars was also much more beautiful than SL i remember. But they closed. Who knows why?

It had no users.

No one logged in and did anything.

Performance and the need for a strong PC (as it was based on Cryengine) was often cited as a reason, and the company secured many rounds of investment on the promise cloud rendering would save it, however it was fundamentally a dead static experience, there was nothing to do because there was nothing you could do. The only dynamic content was your avatar and how you dressed it up.

In short it failed for the same reason Sansar did.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Coffee Pancake

[Tama Suki]

14 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It had no users.

No one logged in and did anything.

Performance and the need for a strong PC (as it was based on Cryengine) was often cited as a reason, and the company secured many rounds of investment on the promise cloud rendering would save it, however it was fundamentally a dead static experience, there was nothing to do because there was nothing you could do. The only dynamic content was your avatar and how you dressed it up.

In short it failed for the same reason Sansar did.

Do you also remember the FaceBook Cloud Party?
I remember that I had opened an account there and I also remember that many SL artists were in the mood for that metaverse. In that case I never really understood why they closed it.

[animats]

1 hour ago, Ardy Lay said:

So, that's all downloaded prior to viewing it?  Hmm.  Hey, if I walk through a scene instead of motoring through it at 70 MPH, and it be presented well with remote storage?

That they don't do yet. The scene shown is streaming in from a SSD drive. UE5 has the beginnings of remote streaming, but it's not all there yet. Probably UE6.

For planning purposes, I'd say that 2024 is the year that virtual worlds get really good.

• Epic should have their metaverse-capable Unreal Engine out by then.
• Roblox has 90 dev teams, with several hundred developers, working on improving their system.
• Because of the current chip shortage, all the IC makers are building new fabs, (many hundreds of billions of dollars worth) and a semiconductor glut and lower prices are predicted for around 2024. So GPU availability and price will improve.
• Facebook will probably have something.
• Some of the people making "metaverse" noise will actually deliver.

We'll have to see if Linden Lab can keep up.

(How UE5 does it is clever, and, surprisingly, not all that complicated. There's been a theory breakthrough. It's basically a new mesh format and a new shader. If this were to be used for SL, the place to start would be terrain rendering. Ground rendering is probably SL's biggest weak point visually. UE5 Nanite-type ground would mean detail down to grass blades and out to the horizon. The new mesh format isn't a secret and others are writing tools to use it, so that doesn't mean using UE5 inside SL.)

[Ardy Lay]

1 hour ago, Tama Suki said:

If I try to enter Sinespace with that scrap of my old MacBook Pro and my rough connection I remain frozen in a welcome area

I never could actually get logged in either.  Authentication would complete then it just sat there and decomposed slowly while using all of my CPU (Intel Xeon E3-1275 v3) and GPU (Nvidia 1070).  Literally a no-starter.  No clue what the cause of that was.  I suspect CRAP SOFTWARE but, who knows.

[Tama Suki]

50 minutes ago, animats said:

I'd say that 2024 is the year that virtual worlds get really good.

My question is: Is there a viewer of any existing virtual world today that can handle ambient occlusion?
Because if it is these performances that you are talking about I think it will take at least another 10 years if not 20.

[Lucia Nightfire]

20 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

You have to have an Oculus to get into Horizon Worlds? I might want to try that. They're looking for creators.

The content creation tools are more watered down than SL circa 2004.

[Lucia Nightfire]

2 hours ago, animats said:

We'll have to see if Linden Lab can keep up.

Do you honestly believe this is magically going to happen when for years, almost a decade now, management and developers have focused on milquetoast, limited usage/audience features that no one asked for nor wanted, but they, them selves as well as completely ignored the backlog of requests already filed as well as remain completely inept about industry standards and what features make other MMOs so popular?

You go to the same meetings as I. You know there is no hope. None. Absolutely none.

The ONLY way things will change is with a COMPLETE regime change.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

6 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Do you honestly believe this is magically going to happen when for years, almost a decade now, management and developers have focused on milquetoast, limited usage/audience features that no one asked for nor wanted, but they, them selves as well as completely ignored the backlog of requests already filed as well as remain completely inept about industry standards and what features make other MMOs so popular?

You go to the same meetings as I. You know there is no hope. None. Absolutely none.

The ONLY way things will change is with a COMPLETE regime change.

They just don't have the staff, so the mile long wish list gets prioritized and rationalized in business terms.

As our wolfsome overlord put it at SL18B .. if something can show growth he's happy to find all the money it needs! .. Which is a giant catch 22 and simply impossible.

Big projects are avoided, small projects that overrun get canned or allowed to slowly stagger forward for years on end.

They don't have the staff because upper management culture has been, and still is, determined to be in any other business than running this virtual world. It's been no end of life raft projects to try and convert the income from SL into something, anything, else.

After almost 2 decades of this, I'm amazed SL's "residents" (language that diminishes and belittles that we're actually their ONLY paying customers), aren't in the street with pitchforks.

Look at the hiring.

 

[Lucia Nightfire]

2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

They just don't have the staff, so the mile long wish list gets prioritized and rationalized in business terms.

As our wolfsome overlord put it at SL18B .. if something can show growth he's happy to find all the money it needs! .. Which is a giant catch 22 and simply impossible.

Big projects are avoided, small projects that overrun get canned or allowed to slowly stagger forward for years on end.

They don't have the staff because upper management culture has been, and still is, determined to be in any other business than running this virtual world. It's been no end of life raft projects to try and convert the income from SL into something, anything, else.

After almost 2 decades of this, I'm amazed SL's "residents" (language that diminishes and belittles that we're actually their ONLY paying customers), aren't in the street with pitchforks.

Look at the hiring.

 

We arrived at this point because of repeated bad business decisions, each time resulting in little to no disciplinary action.

[Mr Amore]

By the low standard of all the crypto/blockchain games in development, Legacy appears to be the most credible. It feels like a successor to Habbo Hotel (where children were working full time hours for ingame currency).

 

 

They claim to have raised $53 million from land sales already, with the game due to launch in 2022. With the names of Peter Molyneux and Eric Schiermeyer(Zynga) attached, it's one to watch.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Mr Amore