Questionable MP item ..

[Desiree Moonwinder]

I have an extensive collection of properly licensed royalty-free mood music that I have often used for mood music on roleplay SIMs.  One sees the IP addresses from the SHOUTcast server.  A silly marketplace tool seems superfluous.  

[Coffee Pancake]

52 minutes ago, Desiree Moonwinder said:

I have an extensive collection of properly licensed royalty-free mood music that I have often used for mood music on roleplay SIMs.  One sees the IP addresses from the SHOUTcast server.  A silly marketplace tool seems superfluous.  

Yes, but you don't ban people from your land if they don't listen to the mood music in a timely manner.

[Desiree Moonwinder]

5 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Yes, but you don't ban people from your land if they don't listen to the mood music in a timely manner.

No I don't.  Banning people is tiresome because people have a deep pool alts in reserve.  

[Mollymews]

On 6/12/2021 at 12:20 AM, Jaylinbridges said:

I once played at a club that would have costume contests, and there could be 4000 $L on the board for the winners.

if clubs are going to give money as rewards to their patrons then the venue owner is better off with a pay-to-play no-lose sploder, and have the club hosts/managers/themselves drop  money into it now and again during the sessions

20L minimum  to play is about right when the club drop is more than 20L. If a club drops 21L then I will pay 20L, as I will get back either 20L when I don't win or 21L when I win

with a 4000L budget then thats 40 drops of 100L

and what I notice is that most people when they win say 100L will stick about half of it back into the sploder for the next turn. And then end up tipping the venue and/or performers with the rest

[Jaylinbridges]

9 hours ago, Mollymews said:

and what I notice is that most people when they win say 100L will stick about half of it back into the sploder for the next turn. And then end up tipping the venue and/or performers with the rest

Not at the clubs that feature sploders as their main attraction, and the patrons are sploder and contest players that usually don't have the music stream on. They just hop from venue to venue when the contest/sploder starts, and leave when it is over - they have a group to announce the best venues to play their freebie $L games. They do not contribute to the venue or the DJ's. I will never play to these jerks.

And contests are easily scammed by clans and friends.  IMO they all need to be banned.

The same club where the vampire clan scammed the $4000L best-dressed contest, also had the old now illegal sploder.  As a DJ I pumped it a for a few sets, and lost about $1000L.  Never got tips from the winners, who were not regular patrons.

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Sid Nagy]

One of SL mayor rules: Whatever can be gamed, shall be gamed. Extensively.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[LittleMe Jewell]

5 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

One of SL Life's major rules: Whatever can be gamed, shall be gamed. Extensively.

FIFY

[JordonBanks]

On 6/7/2021 at 6:13 PM, Coffee Pancake said:

It spams the following, and then ejects if you don't open the web page.

It worded as to appear optional .. but it's really not.

it requires an experience to operate.

and once triggered kick bans everyone it determines is on a shared IP address.

 

There is no way this isn't knowingly against the ToS.

What I fail to understand, is it assumes that ALTS are banned somehow, or not allowed?  Which I don't belive is the case is it?  I don't think i've every yet been to a SL ocation where there as been any rule that states your'e not allowed to be or own an ALT?  Or maybe I've just been oblivious to that?

[XemmaN]

On 6/14/2021 at 3:06 AM, Desiree Moonwinder said:

I have an extensive collection of properly licensed royalty-free mood music that I have often used for mood music on roleplay SIMs.  One sees the IP addresses from the SHOUTcast server. 

The fact that media and streams catch you by IP addresses is in no right, especially if you wear such a body or listen to music on your estate or club or area. identification of IP addresses for music and media should be prohibited. Of course, this is a global problem. but really maybe someone can' do this so that media and streams stop catching IP addresses

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, XemmaN said:

The fact that media and streams catch you by IP addresses is in no right, especially if you wear such a body or listen to music on your estate or club or area. identification of IP addresses for music and media should be prohibited. Of course, this is a global problem. but really maybe someone can' do this so that media and streams stop catching IP addresses

Best stay off the entire internet if you're concerned about that.

[Silent Mistwalker]

44 minutes ago, XemmaN said:

The fact that media and streams catch you by IP addresses is in no right, especially if you wear such a body or listen to music on your estate or club or area. identification of IP addresses for music and media should be prohibited. Of course, this is a global problem. but really maybe someone can' do this so that media and streams stop catching IP addresses

No IP? No music stream. Because that is how it works. 

You are saying you want streamed music banned from SL which does include live musicians. Why? Why should everyone else have to suffer just because you don't want the one thing that makes having internet possible to do precisely what its purpose is. That doesn't make any practical sense.

[Jaylinbridges]

Not keeping up w/ this thread, but at one club that had contests, when you tried to join the contest board, a box popped up the first time warning you that if you agreed to enter the contest, you had to click Yes and your IP address would be recorded.  It also reminded you that duplicate IP addresses attempting to join the board to vote would be rejected and duplicate avatars banned.   I never tested it out with an Alt to see if it worked - although getting banned from that club would be a plus.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[WereBeast Alpha]

Think of it this way an IP address is more like a teleport in SL sense you land in a certain area when you arrive on a sim do you see in the info bar where you look at or when you land. (ex: 0,0,0) if you look at a map with longitude and latitude its the same way just that IP addresses are public information not private like land on SL is public but can be made private if you have estate rights if it makes sense.

[XemmaN]

12 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

No IP? No music stream. Because that is how it works. 

You are saying you want streamed music banned from SL which does include live musicians. Why? Why should everyone else have to suffer just because you don't want the one thing that makes having internet possible to do precisely what its purpose is. That doesn't make any practical sense.

I am not against music or video as such. I am against the fact that individual residents have the opportunity to get your IP address. By what right? If it is forbidden in the sl then why some have such an opportunity. It doesn't matter who they are DJs or the creators of HUD or left-wing programs for identifying IP on external servers.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

1 hour ago, XemmaN said:

I am not against music or video as such. I am against the fact that individual residents have the opportunity to get your IP address. By what right? If it is forbidden in the sl then why some have such an opportunity. It doesn't matter who they are DJs or the creators of HUD or left-wing programs for identifying IP on external servers.

You could ask the same thing about literally any feature that opens a path to an external service. Doesn't matter if it's a music stream, parcel media, Media On A Prim, or any links in chat.

Anything short of having LL work as a middle-man (as with voice chat) will potentially expose your IP to another resident, because that's how the internet works by design.

The problem is that it's not really viable for LL to be the middle-man for every external service. It costs them on many levels to do that, never mind the complications of actually having to design and implement those features.

• Music streams might be relatively simple but it would cost them bandwidth (and maintenance) to re-stream the music stream to every user, instead of having the user connect directly to the stream. This would also cause a delay in the stream (several seconds or worse), or even prevent streaming altogether if LL's music re-streaming service was down.
   
• Parcel media / MOAP would be much more complicated, as they would have to make web-requests on your behalf and render/stream the result back to you. They'd have to implement mouse/keyboard simulation, etc. Basically a remote desktop, but a browser.
   
• This alt detector could be done without any scripts/media/stream at all. If they have access to a web server, they could manually IM a link for you to click. When you do, and the link opens in your browser outside of the viewer, your IP address will show up on the server. Heck, they could do it right here on the forum.

Basically what you're saying is that these features should not exist unless LL would spend a lot more time on creating and maintaining much more complicated (and futile) systems which are prone to fail and costly to fix. (And it's not like LL has enough time or people to work on existing issues or new features.)

Edited June 16, 2021 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Innula Zenovka]

4 hours ago, XemmaN said:

I am not against music or video as such. I am against the fact that individual residents have the opportunity to get your IP address. By what right? If it is forbidden in the sl then why some have such an opportunity. It doesn't matter who they are DJs or the creators of HUD or left-wing programs for identifying IP on external servers.

It isn't against ToS to discover, or even to record, someone's  IP address, though.

What's against ToS is disclosing people's personal information  without their consent.     So while we can quite legitimately  log each other's IP addresses,  we can't publish them  inside SL, or any conclusions we reach from them, whether accurate or not, without the people's consent.

Anyone can log my ip address.    What they can't do, though, is go on to disclose it to anyone, inworld or in these forums, or  publish the fact I use an IP address that places me in a particular geographical location, or to say that, based on the fact I share an IP address with some other accounts that they go on to identify, that we must all be each other's alts (some of us will be, since I have several alts, mostly for testing and land ownership, but I have no idea how many other people in my area who have nothing to do with me also use SL -- several, I would imagine --  and also use my ISP).

They can, if they want to, publish this information outside SL and, while it would probably cause them a lot of legal problems with the GDPR and possibly local law enforcement (depending on where they live) that wouldn't be anything LL could do anything about.

It's disclosing what purport to be people's RL details and the details of their alts that's against ToS, not discovering their IP addresses. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Innula Zenovka

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

It's disclosing what purport to be people's RL details and the details of their alts that's against ToS, not discovering their IP addresses. 

If this is the case, then banning an apparent alt from land they they own isn't a violation of the ToS if they haven't made it publicly known that so-and-so and so-and-so1 have been banned because they have the same IP adddress?

In which case, the item that started off the whole thread is Ok?

[Innula Zenovka]

15 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

If this is the case, then banning an apparent alt from land they they own isn't a violation of the ToS if they haven't made it publicly known that so-and-so and so-and-so1 have been banned because they have the same IP adddress?

In which case, the item that started off the whole thread is Ok?

It's within ToS, as far as I can tell (though since it's closed source we can't know what else may be going on behind the scenes) but since I think it's a poorly-designed product for the reasons Qie and I have outlined, I hesitate to describe it as "OK."

Redzone was rightly banned because it provided a service -- purporting to identify residents' alts and to publish this in-world to subscribers, while automatically adding supposed alts to their ban lists -- that was against ToS.     

To do this, it had to capture people's IP addresses, which it did secretly and without their consent.

This, however, doesn't appear to identify, and still less disclose, anyone's alt to anyone in-world, and you voluntarily press the button that disclosed your IP address, so I don't think it's against ToS as such.   Certainly I think on principle that it should tell you what data it's collecting, how it's storing and handling it, and how you can get it removed, but that's not a ToS matter.   

Nor, if I thought I needed to use an alt detector, would I dream of using this particular one to protect the integrity of my contests and lucky chairs, because I think it's very badly designed and I could write a better one myself that did the job it was supposed to without unnecessarily banning people's alts indiscriminately across the grid.

It's not alt detectors that break ToS, though.   It's residents who break ToS by publishing, in world, information they've learned, or think they've learned,  from the alt detector.

 

 

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

8 hours ago, XemmaN said:

I am not against music or video as such. I am against the fact that individual residents have the opportunity to get your IP address. By what right? If it is forbidden in the sl then why some have such an opportunity. It doesn't matter who they are DJs or the creators of HUD or left-wing programs for identifying IP on external servers.

Just what do you think someone is going to do with your IP that is going to harm you? Send you an email? Watch the porn movies you have hidden on your external hard drive?

Right about now would be a good time to shut your computer down, box it up and ship it back to the manufacturer.

[Rowan Amore]

8 hours ago, XemmaN said:

left-wing programs for identifying IP on external servers

That made me chuckle.

[Innula Zenovka]

26 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

That made me chuckle.

llGetHTTPHeader is antifa!

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

The IP-Woke brigade are out to cancel alts

[XemmaN]

15 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Just what do you think someone is going to do with your IP that is going to harm you? Send you an email? Watch the porn movies you have hidden on your external hard drive?

Right about now would be a good time to shut your computer down, box it up and ship it back to the manufacturer.

•  

Oh well. even with your sarcasm and cruel jokes, do you admit that you can break any computer? so maybe the fact of establishing IP addresses of people is precisely the goal of getting into someone else's computer...funny but too

Edited June 17, 2021 by XemmaN

[Phil Deakins]

On 6/15/2021 at 4:05 PM, JordonBanks said:

What I fail to understand, is it assumes that ALTS are banned somehow, or not allowed?  Which I don't belive is the case is it?

Yes it IS the case when the owner turns it on. That's what it's for.

[Phil Deakins]

On 6/14/2021 at 1:06 AM, Desiree Moonwinder said:

I have an extensive collection of properly licensed royalty-free mood music that I have often used for mood music on roleplay SIMs.  One sees the IP addresses from the SHOUTcast server.  A silly marketplace tool seems superfluous.  

If all you want to do is see the IPs, then the tool is superfluous, as you say. But the "silly marketplace tool" isn't for the purpose of owners just seeing IP addresses. AND, of course, not all owners use shoutcast, and those who do, probably don't want to keep staring at it, looking for duplicate IPs.