Rowan Amore Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Maybe that club owner that has the griefing alts showing up, from that other thread, should get one of these. Problem solved. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said: Maybe that club owner that has the griefing alts showing up, from that other thread, should get one of these. Problem solved. In more ways than one no less .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 20 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said: @Qie Niangao Ok, I've got one of them, and nothing in the instructions, or any other text, suggests that it can or will ban avatars from other parcels where the owners are using the device. Also, there is no option in the menu to set so that it also bans from other users' lands. I can set it up here, because the land is owned by my group. To check if it bans from the land of a different owner, can you set yours up? I can get an alt banned here and we can check if it also gets banned from your parcel. In the meantime, I'll split this parcel and test it on 2 parcels that are owned by my group. One of my alts has already tested this, so if I come to your parcel as me, we could see what happens, since if Qie and I are correct in our suspicions about why the application needs KVP, I would expect to find I'm banned (as Innula) from your parcel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said: I can set it up here, because the land is owned by my group. To check if it bans from the land of a different owner, can you set yours up? I can get an alt banned here and we can check if it also gets banned from your parcel. Try this one: secondlife:///app/objectim/9cffc877-2b0b-340b-e05b-cfe32235ce7e?name=warning%2C%20alt%2Ddetection%20test&owner=72435d55-873c-4617-b6ea-9a707d1f6800&slurl=Myron/166.000000/54.000000/32.204860 I concluded this was how it worked when my alt first registered at the product's demo location, and then another alt I tested on my own land was banned instantly upon responding to the IP address-recording URL. But we can try again, in case it's changed since then. Edited June 17, 2021 by Qie Niangao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said: One of my alts has already tested this, so if I come to your parcel as me, we could see what happens, since if Qie and I are correct in our suspicions about why the application needs KVP, I would expect to find I'm banned (as Innula) from your parcel. Good idea Innula. I'm going to TP you hoping you're online. If you're not, IM me when you are, and I'll TP you. I've just had an alt ejected. She doesn't show in the land's banned list, but she could be in either a list in the script or in a central list. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) I just replicated that with another alt who's never been seen by the detector (but shares IP address with the rest of "us"). As soon as he loaded the URL from the product demo site, he was immediately banned ALONG WITH THE FIRST ALT I TESTED WITH THE SYSTEM who also appeared on that parcel's banlist. When he went to my little test parcel, it asked again for his IP address before immediately banning him from that test parcel along with that first alt. What's vaguely interesting is that it seems to only key on IP address, not on avatar identity, and apparently only stores one avatar identity associated with that IP address. It sorta doesn't need to keep other identities, though, since it will probe each visitor for their IP address and ban them when it finds a match. And yet it proactively adds that first, saved avatar identity to the land banlist when their alt is detected on a parcel, rather than waiting for that first avatar to return and have their IP address probed again. Edited June 17, 2021 by Qie Niangao 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) That's exactly what Innula and I found, Qie. She came to my place, having been banned, together with her alt, on another parcel that has nothing to do with me. As soon as she clicked to go to the page, she was booted. Then both her and her alt appeared in my parcel's banned list, even though the alt never came. So the alts data is stored centrally, and, once banned for being an alt, you are banned from ALL parcels that use the device, regardless of whether you are there on your own or not. If you go to such a place, and don't click to get the page, you will be ejected after a couple of minutes. If you do click, you will be ejected immediately. IT IS A VERY BAD PRODUCT! I believe that it is in compliance with the rules though, because it doesn't allow others to see the IP addresses, but that doesn't make it any less bad. Edited June 17, 2021 by Phil Deakins 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: I just replicated that with another alt who's never been seen by the detector (but shares IP address with the rest of "us"). As soon as he loaded the URL from the product demo site, he was immediately banned ALONG WITH THE FIRST ALT I TESTED WITH THE SYSTEM who also appeared on that parcel's banlist. When he went to my little test parcel, it asked again for his IP address before immediately banning him from that test parcel along with that first alt. What's vaguely interesting is that it seems to only key on IP address, not on avatar identity, and apparently only stores one avatar identity associated with that IP address. It sorta doesn't need to keep other identities, though, since it will probe each visitor for their IP address and ban them when it finds a match. And yet it proactively adds that first, saved avatar identity to the land banlist when their alt is detected on a parcel, rather than waiting for that first avatar to return and have their IP address probed again. Phil and I have just replicated that, too. My alt owns a parcel on Bellisseria and had previously tested the script there. My alt was the only avatar associated in the system with my ISP until I visited Phil's parcel just now, and was booted as soon as I clicked the button and the page opened. I was added to the ban list, as was my alt, who has never been anywhere near Phil's parcel (it was therefore pretty obvious to Phil that the other name that suddenly popped up on the ban list alongside mine was something to do with me). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordonBanks Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Solar Legion said: Jordan, the simple act of having this - or any other - alt detection system on one's parcel is telling the user up front that Alts are not welcome/allowed on that parcel. That aside, many venue/club/shop/general parcel owners will take varied approaches to displaying additional rules for their locations. No matter how many of these are layered in, there will be those who do not bother to read the information and then complain when any action is taken - that's on them however. Like it or not, within Second Life the only rules you can be certain of are the Terms of Service and the Community Standards. It is on you to read any additional rules present on any given parcel. If you're (general) too impatient to let everything load in and to examine your landing site and/or the parcel Covenant ... that is on you. It'd be nice if there was a standardized configuration and method of presentation for any additional rules but the reality is that there simply isn't. Nor could one be enforced. Maybe it's because I am new I have this opinion, BUT reading a welcome sign or notecard when arriving somehere is one thing and yep most people do that I hope - but who in their right mind is gonna read the actual 'Parcel Covenant' for EVERY where they go or visit in SL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 9 hours ago, XemmaN said: Oh well. even with your sarcasm and cruel jokes, do you admit that you can break any computer? so maybe the fact of establishing IP addresses of people is precisely the goal of getting into someone else's computer...funny but too Wait. You think someone can hack your computer just by having your IP address? Wow. Ok then. Let's do away with IP addresses so we can no longer log into SL, no longer buy anything from the Marketplace, etc. Oh and while we are at it, let's clear cache every day just before trying to log in so we can insure our IP can't be grabbed. 🙄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 1 minute ago, JordonBanks said: Maybe it's because I am new I have this opinion, BUT reading a welcome sign or notecard when arriving somehere is one thing and yep most people do that I hope - but who in their right mind is gonna read the actual 'Parcel Covenant' for EVERY where they go or visit in SL? Anyone that wants to be certain they haven't missed anything. Some have placed rules and such into the Land Covenant. Sadly, it is not all that uncommon for people to be oh so in a rush/impatient that they don't even allow the nearby signs to load in, let alone stop to read any notecards that they may have gotten or notice/popups and such. If you're at a club/store/hangout and don't see signage, don't see a notecard giver, aren't given a notecard (among many variations) then it is best to check the Parcel information and/or Covenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 8 hours ago, Jerilynn Lemon said: Has it occurred to anyone in this thread (not going to read all seven pages to find out) that two people, living as roomies or married, doesn't matter, could be on two separate puters in SL and are at the same venue, be it dancing, chatting with friends, what ever will show as a duplicate IP. Two people. Living under the same roof. Sharing a router. Same ISP (server probably 10-15 miles away, doesn't show physical location IP) involved with Second Life and at the same region/venue/event. Not unheard of. That does not constitute an alt is in the room. That would be us as I did say in an earlier post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Phil Deakins said: Land-owners can have various reasons for not wanting alts, but probably the main one is entering competitions, and I would have thought that it's obvious to anyone who takes alts along to enter competitions knows that the owner probably doesn't want them to do it. I don't think it's necessary for a competition runner to put up a sign saying that alts are not allowed to vote. It goes without saying, imo. How do you distinguish between a pair of alts and a couple who live in the same house and use the same internet connection because it would be stupid to pay for two separate connections, not to mention it would be expensive and out of most people's financial reach? Edited June 17, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 The product doesn't differentiate. As far as it is concerned, matching IP addresses = alts. It doesn't have to take people in the same house into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profaitchikenz Haiku Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Have you tested it going in via VPN or perhps even Tor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordonBanks Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said: How do you distinguish between a pair of alts and a couple who live in the same house and use the same internet connection because it would be stupid to pay for two separate connections, not to mention it would be expensive and out of most people's financial reach? Oooh - yes - that is a very good point. How would you distiguish. Fact is it seems, if same IP, then one of you is a gonna get booted by the sounds of it - even if reason you are same IP is legit. That's a pain isn't it. Edited June 17, 2021 by JordonBanks typo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Solar Legion said: Anyone that wants to be certain they haven't missed anything. Some have placed rules and such into the Land Covenant. Sadly, it is not all that uncommon for people to be oh so in a rush/impatient that they don't even allow the nearby signs to load in, let alone stop to read any notecards that they may have gotten or notice/popups and such. If you're at a club/store/hangout and don't see signage, don't see a notecard giver, aren't given a notecard (among many variations) then it is best to check the Parcel information and/or Covenant. If I have to read half a novel at entrance, I'm out again with one leg already. There are at least 99,999 other parcels available to enjoy my SL. Edited June 17, 2021 by Sid Nagy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, JordonBanks said: Oooh - yes - that is a very good point. How would you distiguish. Fact is it seems, if same IP, then one of you is a gonna get booted by the sounds of it - even if reason you are same IP is legit. That's a pain isn't it. BOTH of you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: If I have to read half a novel at entrance, I'm out again with one leg already. There are at least 99,999 other parcels available to enjoy my SL. Ah yes, an exaggeration in an attempt to make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, JordonBanks said: Oooh - yes - that is a very good point. How would you distiguish. Fact is it seems, if same IP, then one of you is a gonna get booted by the sounds of it - even if reason you are same IP is legit. That's a pain isn't it. It was even more of a pain when it actually happened. He got himself suspended (years ago) for a couple of days by LL which naturally blocked me from logging in. We had to call LL to get it sorted. I think they realized they had really messed up when they heard me screaming bloody murder in the background. I was pissed because I needed to be inworld to run events and couldn't because LL suspended by IP. So yes it has happened and we weren't the first and likely won't be the last. It wasn't long after that that LL stopped banning by IP and started banning accounts. No, I don't think what happened to us had much of anything to do with the change. We were just one incident among hundreds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Solar Legion said: Ah yes, an exaggeration in an attempt to make a point. Nope, there are far more parcels in SL than those 99,999. I stayed on the safe side. I'm not talking about sims, but parcels, plots. Do the math yourself. If every sim has an average of 4 parcels, you're already there. I bet most sims have 4 or more parcels. Edited June 17, 2021 by Sid Nagy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: Nope, there are far more parcels in SL than those 99,999. I stayed on the safe side. I'm not talking about sims, but parcels, plots. Do the math yourself. If every sim has an average of 4 parcels, you're already there. I bet most sims have 4 or more parcels. Not the part I was talking about, Sid. No, I'm not in the mood for humor (if you're attempting such). No one has suggested you read "half a novel". At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Okay quarter of a novel then. There was talks about notecards and signs at the landing point, Do you know how short novels are these days? People don't like to read anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfie Reanimator Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: Okay quarter of a novel then. There was talks about notecards and signs at the landing point, Do you know how short novels are these days? People don't like to read anymore. Put it in an audiobook and I'll go through 400 pages like it's nothing. Edited June 17, 2021 by Wulfie Reanimator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: Okay quarter of a novel then. There was talks about notecards and signs at the landing point, Do you know how short novels are these days? People don't like to read anymore. That's nice. Such people have no leg to stand on if they later complain for being kicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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