COVID rants /shares 2.0 thread

[Pamela Galli]

Nursing home deaths plummeted when they got the vaccine (they were first).  

Edited April 4, 2021 by Pamela Galli

[Rowan Amore]

https://globalnews.ca/news/6991623/covid-19-long-term-care-hospitals-coronavirus/

[Arielle Popstar]

10 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Ok, I'm one of those stupid humans, according to your mouse, who received the vaccine.  I had felt under the weather from it and still have about a 10-15% residual of just not feeling so well.  However, I have an earache and I think I may have something else right now and it was not COVID vaccine related at all.  I won't see a doctor until next week though but the earache is mild so I can wait til end of the week.

Anyhow, things you said you brought to this forum in your other post.  Is that Vitamin-D and hydroxychloroquine?  

As far as vitamin-D.  I've been out every day for about a half an hour in the sun.  It's not helping yet as I'd hoped it would.  But, perhaps I have an infection and will need antibiotics...I just don't know at this writing.  But, vitamin-D has been recommend to the Brits I thought or perhaps that is fake news, I really don't know.

My understanding from several sources is that the winter time sun is not nearly as effective for Vitamin D production as it is during the summer. A number of doctors mentioned they specifically take Vita D during the winter months because of that.

My own experience with it is that since i started taking a couple thousand UI a day, I have felt better in general and more energetic.

Quote

Next, hydroxychloroquine:  It's not known what dose one needs nor has it really been proven it's a preventative.  Also, hydroxychloroquine is for lupus patients and doctors and others in the field didn't want to see supplies diminish to where those with lupus would not have enough of the medicine.  It's not good for us to self-medicate ourselves for one and also it's not known if the benefit outweighs the risk.  Benefit to risk needs to be considered in all meds as does possible toxic effects as all meds can be toxic at the wrong dose.  I think you have made this hydroxychloroquine a kind of G-d and you seem a reasonable person so you know darn well it isn't, let alone you don't really know what dose is toxic or not as I doubt you are an expert in toxicology.  

It has been the critics who focused on hydroxychloroquine because they saw it as the easiest to attack based on 4 negative studies last year. One of them had to be retracted when it was found to be completely false and based on imaginary data. Two of the remaining three were negative as a result of the doctors basically massively overdosing the patients with it resulting in their deaths. Safe dosages have been tested and known for years based on treatments for other maladies but these recommendations were ignored and patients with late stage Covid were given so much hydroxychloroquine that it killed them between the Covid and the drugs side effects. From that it is claimed that hydroxychloroquine had no benefit and was actually dangerous. Go figure.

Hydroxychloroquine does seem to work better with zinc and/or another drug I forget the name of right now but most focus now is on Ivermectin which appears to have a good efficacy with early and mid stage Covid. None of the drugs seem to work well with late stage Covid though and that is sometimes what critics seem to focus on while they are hyping any of the vaccines which don't either. 

These other drugs are treatments which if they had of instituted them early on instead of making them a political football, could have saved a lot of lives.

[Arielle Popstar]

16 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

Nursing home deaths plummeted when they got the vaccine (they were first).  

That does NOT negate the need to do an inquiry as to why. That is just waiting for the next vaccine resistant variant or brand new virus to kill hundreds of thousands more.

[Rowan Amore]

A LTF is not the same as a retirement community.

[Qie Niangao]

There are all too many reasons why long-term care facilities are pandemic death traps. In addition to all the factors that make it easy for a virus to spread within such facilities, as mentioned in the article@Rowan Amorelinked, the staffing and HR practices make them extra vulnerable to spread among these facilities, to wit (emphases mine):

Quote

After the SARS outbreak in 2003, a lot of lessons were learned for long-term care as well, including that rotating staff between long-term care facilities was a problem, he said. But changes to policy weren’t implemented.

[...]

While a good portion of long-term care workers are unionized, those who are part-time do have less access to benefits and it creates a situation where you may feel the need to get to work even if you are sick, because you can’t get paid time off, she said.

For all the faults in Ontario's response to COVID, at least they did seem to prioritize these facilities for early vaccination. I'd like to think that's 100% complete among patients, but I've heard horror stories that the "vaccine hesitancy" disinformation is spreading, causing continued outbreaks among long-term care staff fully eligible for the vaccines.

[FairreLilette]

13 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

It has been the critics who focused on hydroxychloroquine because they saw it as the easiest to attack based on 4 negative studies last year. One of them had to be retracted when it was found to be completely false and based on imaginary data. Two of the remaining three were negative as a result of the doctors basically massively overdosing the patients with it resulting in their deaths. Safe dosages have been tested and known for years based on treatments for other maladies but these recommendations were ignored and patients with late stage Covid were given so much hydroxychloroquine that it killed them between the Covid and the drugs side effects. From that it is claimed that hydroxychloroquine had no benefit and was actually dangerous. Go figure.

Hydroxychloroquine does seem to work better with zinc and/or another drug I forget the name of right now but most focus now is on Ivermectin which appears to have a good efficacy with early and mid stage Covid. None of the drugs seem to work well with late stage Covid though and that is sometimes what critics seem to focus on while they are hyping any of the vaccines which don't either. 

These other drugs are treatments which if they had of instituted them early on instead of making them a political football, could have saved a lot of lives.

I thought you were recommending or advocating hydroxychloroquine self-medicating for people WITHOUT Covid.  

For people without COVID, I doubt there would have been enough, let alone any, doctors available to prescribe hydroxychloroquine as a preventative to any general mass population of any country.  Let alone doctors need to routinely check our toxic levels, etc.  There were no doctors available, not in Los Angeles area.  Some of us now are receiving treatments for things other than Covid but for months and months all doctors offices were closed.  

Anyhow, as far as people with Covid, I don't know anything about it and how it may or may not help.  

[Rat Luv]

21 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

My understanding from several sources is that the winter time sun is not nearly as effective for Vitamin D production as it is during the summer. A number of doctors mentioned they specifically take Vita D during the winter months because of that.

My own experience with it is that since i started taking a couple thousand UI a day, I have felt better in general and more energetic.

I agree - I've been taking a Vitamin D3 with K2 supplement since the middle of last year (Dr John Campbell did a few interesting videos on this) and also Vitamin C and Zinc and Magnesium. I usually take 2,000UI a day too - though I did pick up one bottle by mistake with 20,000UI capsules...which I'm too scared to take, lol.

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Rat Luv

[Arielle Popstar]

36 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

The same people who helped us reach 400k unnecessary covid deaths are now working to ensure the pandemic is unending. 40% of Republicans say they will not take the vaccine, presumably the same ones who refuse to mask. 

I get the distinct impression that you and a few others are more about scoring political brownie points and playing a blame game rather than looking for solutions that might save a life or two while the vaccine rolls out. How is that working for you? 

[Arielle Popstar]

8 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

For all the faults in Ontario's response to COVID, at least they did seem to prioritize these facilities for early vaccination. I'd like to think that's 100% complete among patients, but I've heard horror stories that the "vaccine hesitancy" disinformation is spreading, causing continued outbreaks among long-term care staff fully eligible for the vaccines.

From an article or two I read, LTC staff were not prioritized for receiving the vaccine and there was some flak over that policy decision because of it. I've not read anything about there being any hesitancy among staff workers over it.

[Arielle Popstar]

9 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I thought you were recommending or advocating hydroxychloroquine self-medicating for people WITHOUT Covid.  

For people without COVID, I doubt there would have been enough, let alone any, doctors available to prescribe hydroxychloroquine as a preventative to any general mass population of any country.  Let alone doctors need to routinely check our toxic levels, etc.  There were no doctors available, not in Los Angeles area.  Some of us now are receiving treatments for things other than Covid but for months and months all doctors offices were closed.  

Anyhow, as far as people with Covid, I don't know anything about it and how it may or may not help.  

I'm pointing out some solutions if one does wind up with Covid and not had a vaccine. There are millions of those sort of people who are literally afraid for their life and huddled in their homes for over a year now. 

The Vitamin D, C, Zinc and Magnesium like Rat Luv mentioned, are preventative medicine to bolster the immune system. The bodies natural defense system can do a lot to counter viruses so it just puzzles me the "experts" have not focused on recommending those things rather then being all about the vaccines. A case of follow the money I guess.

[Lyssa Greymoon]

Maybe one day we will solve the deep and enduring mystery of why "experts" are pushing vaccines that are >90% effective instead of vitamins and snake oil.

[FairreLilette]

13 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The Vitamin D, C, Zinc and Magnesium like Rat Luv mentioned, are preventative medicine to bolster the immune system.

I've heard of Zinc as a possible preventative but not the others and I mentioned the doctor's wife I know whose doctor husband takes Zinc every day.  C helps us absorb more iron and I think it's why it's helping me with "vaccine fatigue".  I also get flu shot fatigue so this is not a new reaction to me personally to have fatigue.  D and Magnesium I'm not sure of off the top of my head so I looked up Web M.D. and it says yes it could help keep a healthy immune system but I'd recommend people talk to their doctor if they can.  I spoke to my doctor so he knows I'm taking C and Zinc right now.  It's been sunny in Southern California for weeks now...I just go out in the sun for about a half an hour or so daily to try to soak up some D but it's not helping me as much as you both are benefitting.  My doctor knows I am fighting post-vaccine fatigue and general malaise, albeit it is now lowered to about a 10-15% residual while I now have an earache though which I need to have checked out.  

[Qie Niangao]

25 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

From an article or two I read, LTC staff were not prioritized for receiving the vaccine and there was some flak over that policy decision because of it. I've not read anything about there being any hesitancy among staff workers over it.

I'm too cheap for The Globe and Mail, so this from CBC (in late February):

Quote

 

Despite the fact long-term care workers were the first in Ontario invited to get the COVID-19 vaccine last December, a little more than half of them have volunteered to get the shot.

As of this week, only 55,000 of 100,000 long-term care workers in Ontario have been inoculated, according to the province's Ministry of Health.

• Nursing home workers are first to get COVID-19 vaccines in Ottawa

Dr. Hugh Boyd, chair of the Ontario Medical Association's section on long-term care and care of the elderly, said a lack of confidence in the vaccine and pervasive myths about the quick development and safety of the shot is at the root of the low numbers.

 

 

[FairreLilette]

21 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

Maybe one day we will solve the deep and enduring mystery of why "experts" are pushing vaccines that are >90% effective instead of vitamins and snake oil.

The article that I read from the U.K. was doctors recommending people take Vitamin-D post vaccine not pre or no vaccine.  There are vaccine after effects.  I believe Rat has had the vaccine as have I. 

[Pamela Galli]

57 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I get the distinct impression that you and a few others are more about scoring political brownie points and playing a blame game rather than looking for solutions that might save a life or two while the vaccine rolls out. How is that working for you? 

No one has to “look for solutions”. Read the signs posted everywhere about masking etc. 

[Rat Luv]

31 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

The article that I read from the U.K. was doctors recommending people take Vitamin-D post vaccine not pre or no vaccine.  There are vaccine after effects.  I believe Rat has had the vaccine as have I. 

Yes, I had mine in February. The advice I saw about Vitamin D was back in April or May last year, before the vaccines had been produced - I'd have to watch the videos again but I think the main benefits are boosted immune system and greater resistance to respiratory infections. 

There was also a video about a trial in Vietnam (I think?) where patients were given a massive dose of Vitamin D and made quick recoveries.

But I'm not an expert and I think someone in the previous Covid thread mentioned that it's best to check with your doctor before taking doses. 

ETA vid

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Rat Luv

[FairreLilette]

27 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

But I'm not an expert and I think someone in the previous Covid thread mentioned that it's best to check with your doctor before taking doses. 

ETA vid

Yes, it is best for all of us to check with out doctor.  I did.  My doctor knows what I am taking and it's been mostly C and eating a lot of the oranges.  The C and oranges really did give me energy post vaccine as C helps us absorb iron.   I'm been fighting post Covid vaccine fatigue for five weeks now.  

The vitamin-D, for me, well... we've lots of sunshine in California.  The average temperature for the past two weeks has been 80 degrees, warmer than usual, and total sun.  So, I'm lucky that way.  I hope it starts working for me too.   80 degrees may sound way hot but California is not humid like other places; it's dry heat here, so 80 is no problemo.

Edited April 4, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

I'm too cheap for The Globe and Mail, so this from CBC (in late February):

 

Updated article:

UPDATE: In a March 24 email to CBC News, Ontario's Ministry of long-term care said it now estimates 74 per cent of long-term care staff in the province have received at least one dose of the COVID-19 vaccine. The story below has been updated with this information.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/long-term-care-workers-covid-vaccine-hesitancy-1.5953946

[Kyrie Deka]

22 hours ago, animats said:

There's no need to guess about how close the US is to herd immunity. The CDC measures it.

...

Watch those numbers. When they reach 80-90%, it's over.

If reading that that ain't enough to shut one up, nothin will.  

[FairreLilette]

23 hours ago, animats said:

There's no need to guess about how close the US is to herd immunity. The CDC measures it.

Blood samples taken by commercial labs for other purposes. are randomly sampled for coronavirus antibodies. If someone has either had the disease or has been vaccinated, there will be antibodies. There's data for each state. This runs about 6 weeks behind, so right now the data is for mid-February.

Watch those numbers. When they reach 80-90%, it's over.

Well, not quite over over.  It may be more like what the article says below, although there still exist other "unknowns" with variants and how long we will be immune as well as COVID is said to be a "rapid evolver".   As far as really over, maybe never.  

New normal will likely include the coronavirus

Wolfe, Gandhi, Mansky and Murray are all hopeful that some semblance of regular life will resume for Americans in the fall of 2021 or by early 2022 at the latest.

But they emphasize that the coronavirus will never be totally eradicated. It's already spread too far, and it's changing too fast. Instead, they said, the goal of public health efforts is to make it a manageable virus, like the seasonal flu. The vaccines authorized for use in the U.S. have been shown to be highly effective at reducing the number of severe COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations.

Depending on how long immunity from the vaccines last, we may need to get a coronavirus shot every year, or once every three years.

"The coronavirus will be with us, but it will not be terrible,” Gandhi says. “What's important is that we don't want to get severe disease. The vaccines mean that we can defang the virus, taking it from causing severe disease to a virus that causes a cold.”

https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2021/when-will-covid-end.html

Edited April 5, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Pussycat Catnap]

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

22 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

We better pray there isn't another pandemic during those decades.

Unfortunately I didn't catch the source, but I heard somewhere in the past couple days a detailed comparison of those economies that practiced "mitigation" such as North America and the EU, vs those that practiced "zero tolerance" lockdown strategies such as Korea, China, Taiwan, New Zealand, etc. There's no way to make that a complete apples-to-apples comparison, I'm sure, but just knowing what we do about how those economies performed, it's pretty clear that "mitigation" was a colossally expensive failure.

As I understand the distinction, "zero tolerance" means strict lockdowns until there is no community transmission that is not completely contact-traced forward and back such that every single case fits into a comprehensive family tree of transmission. The theory is that once a health system can do that, the virus is "under control". That's a lot easier with abundant, accurate testing, but given enough patience and enforcement it can be done with no testing at all, and is really the only practical option if there's not plenty of a super effective vaccine on the immediate horizon.

It not only saves lives, but in the case of COVID-19, it saved economies.

I don't much care what happens to Former Guy, but the West better get smarter about fighting pandemics, and fast. This has been one unforced error after another, causing hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths in North America alone. I'd sure rather spend time and effort improving our capacity for future response, rather than trying to identify which faceless  Hubei functionary was even more guilty of cover-up than all his guilty colleagues, or which half-witted American politician screwed the pooch even more than all the others.

I've been aware of the remarkable rise of China as a manufacturing/economic power for a long time. Around the time DJT took office, predictions seemed to have China rising to economic supremacy by 2045 or so. Primarily due to the difference in Covid strategies you mentioned, China's economy took a much lighter blow than ours over the last year, mostly indirectly as their trading partners suffered the direct effects of mitigation. Now I'm reading projections that China's economy will overtake ours in... 2028. There are some projections that the US retains economic supremacy indefinitely (due to higher fertility and continued substantial immigration), but any new pandemic threatens to hand more advantage to "zero tolerance" countries.

I think American Exceptionalism's curtain has been pulled back by Covid-19. If you look at how we're handling it, we sure look like an underdeveloped country. It'll be a sad irony if we hyperventilated ourselves into the global backseat over our fear of masks.

[Sindy Lovelace]

On 3/28/2021 at 11:46 AM, Luna Bliss said:

A heads up. If you have animal pets be sure and see if your vet is still around. I had a sick kitty and had a helluva time getting care for her as so many offices had closed and others had no space for new clients due to the chaos of Covid (still not sure of all the reasons why so many vets had to close offices and others became filled to capacity, or if this is only specific to my town. However a clinic said Covid was one of the factors).

Finally got her in to an emergency care hospital and called around to find a new vet for follow up visits.

Young vet here, two years into my practice.

Our clinic has generally stayed open, however the one wing with the grooming business (separate from our clinic) has been closed). We strangely enough were also considered "medical/front line" for some bizarre reason, and all three of us vets were offered COVID shots but we're all under 40 (I'm just under 30 still, myself) and we wear PPE a lot, so we declined that for the time being, letting the elderly population and those in nursing homes and care facilities get theirs first. Our turn will come soon enough.

We and our staff have always been available for emergency care for our regular patients and their human caregivers, but as you said, we were not taking any new patients on board even now due to a backlog of stuff to do. Tough call, especially with all the "COVID pets" being adopted from shelters etc into new families, but we didn't have the capacity to manage. Only getting back to a sort of normal now, but still very busy every day; for example, our regular type appointments like exams and vaccinations are being booked out 2-3 months which is wild for us (normally 2 weeks would be considered a long wait).

But I know a few smaller offices near me that were shut down completely, even for emergencies.

Edited April 5, 2021 by BastetsDaughter

[LittleMe Jewell]

Our vet stayed open the whole time.  When it was time for kitty checkups last year, we had to call to let them know when we arrived in the parking lot.  They asked all the normal questions over the phone and then a staff member came out to get the kitty.  They did the normal exam stuff - and even did the requested kitty nail trimming - then they brought the kitty back out to the car.  So the only change really was that we, the people, were not allowed into the building.  I took 2 cats in for normal checkups via that process.  Not sure if we'll be allowed inside this year or not -- the checkups aren't due until June or July.