Why BOM? Why?

[Blush Bravin]

12 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

I have bought a new EVO Lake and have the 5.3 Lara body ... I need to test this out ASAP. Best place to get matching head/body (demo) skins for me to try out for that combo of products is ...... ?

I'd start first place with the demos at your favorite skin store. The newer Evo heads more closely align with the SLUV so they are going to be easier to  match up with BoM skins than the older Origins line. That's not a blanket statement though. There will always be exceptions.

I typically get all the demos in a store that indicate system layers are included. I get so many that I have to set up folders before I start the demo process.

Here's my system for demoing .. 

I setup a main folder with the name of the store as the title. I drop all the demos from the store into that folder. Inside the folder, I add two more folders and name them Love and Maybe. Then I start demoing. If a demo isn't a maybe or a love then it's deleted immediately. Once I have tried and foldered the bunch, I don't do anything for a day or so. Then I go back and try all the demos in the maybe folder. If I can't find a reason to love any of them, I delete them. Then I tackle the love folder. This time, if there's any little thing that I don't absolutely love about the skin, I delete it. Typically, I either end up with a completely empty folder, or one demo I still love, In the rare instance, I might end up with two in the love folder. On those occasions, I have a tough decision to make. Do I hold on to the folder another couple of days and try again to see if I can eliminate one, or do I just go buy both? Well, my skin folder is busting at the seams, so you can guess what happens. lol

 

[Blush Bravin]

1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

Okay, AB line

Sorry .. by AB I mean Amara Beauty. So every skin in that store is an AB line. Maybe what you saw was AK? That's a different brand of head.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

I really like Skinnery too! In fact, I am using some of the skin details that come with the Skinnery body skins with my AB skin. I've bought several skin tones from Skinnery just so I could use those details with whatever skin I like at the moment. Another thing to love about BoM! It's so easy to mix and match items from different sources to create the perfect YOU!

Yeah. I did the same thing when I switched over from Skinnery to Session. I love Session skins for the head, but the body skins are meh: the addition of the BoM details tattoo layers from my old Skinnery skins made a huge difference.

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

The changes from v5.2 to 5.3 specifically dealt with body to head neck matching. So v5.3 is going to be better for matching the neck in most cases.

I just went and tried it..all I can find that they did is, they tried to match up the neck fix they have always been using, as best as they could with brands.. That and messed with the neck seam where it meets the head..

That mesh piece they use for the neck fix looks like it always did when I would put it on..That fuzzy edge around the neck..

If  all they changed is the sizing on the neck fix, I will probably stay with v5.2 because for me it is working better..

For me V5.3 without the neck fix turned on, i see a line there even from standing back from the neck, because it also looks like they must have  changed the size of the neck where it meets the head now.. it looks like my head is sitting over the neck with the neck fix off..

so my head without the fix on is sitting over the neck and with the head fix on is sitting inside the neck.. hehehehe

I hate being a version behind ..hehehe

ETA: I don't know if this changes from each genus head or not.. I'll try my other versions to see..

This was with Baby Face W001 - v1.7 - Mocapbabyface.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Ceka Cianci

[Blush Bravin]

3 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I just went and tried it..all I can find that they did is, they tried to match up the neck fix they have always been using, as best as they could with brands.. That and messed with the neck seam where it meets the head..

That mesh piece they use for the neck fix looks like it always did when I would put it on..That fuzzy edge around the neck..

If  all they changed is the sizing on the neck fix, I will probably stay with v5.2 because for me it is working better..

For me V5.3 without the neck fix turned on, i see a line there even from standing back from the neck, because it also looks like they must have  changed the size of the neck where it meets the head now.. it looks like my head is sitting over the neck with the neck fix off..

so my head without the fix on is sitting over the neck and with the head fix on is sitting inside the neck.. hehehehe

I hate being a version behind ..hehehe

 

The change does not apply to the neck fix which is the "sleeve" you're looking at. But this....

The Type 1 or Type 2 adjusts the direction of the normals. The 0 or 5 is neck size. The direction of the normals is what is the new part where body makers and head makers are making adjustment so the normals are facing the same direction.

[Blush Bravin]

9 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

For me V5.3 without the neck fix turned on, i see a line there even from standing back from the neck, because it also looks like they must have  changed the size of the neck where it meets the head now.. it looks like my head is sitting over the neck with the neck fix off..

Can you adjust the size of the head's neck? I'm not sure which brand of head you're using. On V5.2 there are more neck sizes to choose from but you can't adjust the normals. So possibly your head's neck isn't either 0 or 5. I think they are working on an update to include more neck sizes. I'm not sure about that though.

[Blush Bravin]

4 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

I would not use a skin made specifically for Evo on an Origins head.

 

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

Well nearly every skin in the AB line that indicates it's for the EVO line were made prior to the heads being updated. So go get demos of all those skins and try them with your head. They may fit beautifully on your origins head. But you won't know if you don't try them.

I clearly seem to contradict myself here and that's because of the difference between the first Evo heads and the updated Evo heads. So scratch what I said about not trying a skin made specifically for Evo on an Origins. Honestly, you just won't know if it will work or not unless you demo it. 

[Ceka Cianci]

4 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Can you adjust the size of the head's neck? I'm not sure which brand of head you're using. On V5.2 there are more neck sizes to choose from but you can't adjust the normals. So possibly your head's neck isn't either 0 or 5. I think they are working on an update to include more neck sizes. I'm not sure about that though.

I can adjust the neck on the V5.2 body using the V5.3 hud, which I thought was kinda neat..hehehe

On the genus head, they have that neck fix piece that you have to attach and  can adjust that for the neck in the hud, but not the neck itself..

 

[Blush Bravin]

2 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I can adjust the neck on the V5.2 body using the V5.3 hud, which I thought was kinda neat..hehehe

On the genus head, they have that neck fix piece that you have to attach and  can adjust that for the neck in the hud, but not the neck itself..

 

I have a genus but haven't used it in such a long time that I'm not sure, but if memory serves, I think it's a size 5. I wouldn't use a neck fix on either the body or the head. Those are really only intended for use to match up to system head or system body.

[Ceka Cianci]

17 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

The change does not apply to the neck fix which is the "sleeve" you're looking at. But this....

The Type 1 or Type 2 adjusts the direction of the normals. The 0 or 5 is neck size. The direction of the normals is what is the new part where body makers and head makers are making adjustment so the normals are facing the same direction.

I tried that as well and had no luck with the v5.3 body..

Everything looks good with my v5.2 though.. I've looked at it in all the different lighting that it would stand out in and I'm really happy with it..

The hud workign with v5.2 it doesn't look like I'm missing out on any features, so that's good

 

[KjartanEno]

On 12/4/2020 at 1:46 PM, Qie Niangao said:

Is anybody else confused by skin merchants who bundle their BoM body skins as tattoos only, not using the skin layer at all? I'm thinking Stray Dog here, but there may be others. I have some hare-brained theories, but I just wonder if anybody finds it a convenience for some reason.

Oh also, hairbases and the BoM "materials" problem: Usually I just cover up a hairbase with a bunch of meshy hair without paying attention, but one of my alts wants a hairbase-only buzzcut and it looks very weird with even the slightest sheen on the head skin. Now, with BOM, there's just the one baked surface for face and hair and it seems the standard issue specularmap is uniform across that surface (at least for LeLutka). So I made a custom specularmap that keeps matte the area of my favored hairbase; while I was at it, I did the eyebrows (in case I use the skin's eyebrows instead of the "HD" brow layer with its own specularity). Easy to apply with the LeLutka "testing" HUD, and it worked out fine, but I wonder: what do other people do? I can't be the only one who wants a matte hairbase and a little sheen to the face, can I? Do some heads come with "HD" hairbase layer, too? Or am I just doing this all wrong?

As for the first point, I get what Stray Dog does. The bodies and heads all have matching tones so that they can sell a face "skin" (with a blank body) consisting of a few different colors, and it goes with the corresponding body colors sold separately. Since there are some minor variations between mesh body UV layouts, one purchases the body skin based on the brand one owns. By doing it this way they avoid the need to package multiple body types in every single color with each and every face.

I use materials on my mesh body and head, so I prefer to use Omega appliers without shine for hairbases and eyebrows. Depending on the hair I use, I may have need for one hairbase or another. Of course, your method would be preferable if one only ever uses one kind of hairbase. As for "HD" eyebrows, that's just going to be the usual applier method for mesh heads with layers, but not using the SL UV layout for the head.

Edited December 5, 2020 by KjartanEno
clarification

[BelindaN]

I love Genus and three out of five sisters use Genus, but Lelutka Evolution has a better, almost invisible neck seam. Genus still shows a patchy seam under unforgiving light and certain movements. Not enough to dump the head, but Lelutka is really on it. I may change another sister over, but for me, I'll stick with Genus and hope they refine it soon. 

Right now I favour Pumec and Itgirls skins

Edited December 5, 2020 by BelindaN

[Rowan Amore]

Mila has head and body skins and most are updated for BOM.

[Orwar]

30 minutes ago, BelindaN said:

Genus still shows a patchy seam under unforgiving light and certain movements.

   As far as I can tell, Genus has not yet adapted the 'universal neck' thing, which Lelutka has. Neph too has a pretty blatant misalignment between the body and head (not just a seam, but the meshes simply don't match up, leaving a fairly decent gap between the two). I'm hopeful that Genus eventually will, but I haven't heard anything from them on it - their last thing was an announcement that they seek creators to test the dev kit for the Genus male head that's apparently coming along quite nicely.

   Whilst the meshes do overlap, it becomes very visible under most lighting conditions.

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, BelindaN said:

I love Genus and three out of five sisters use Genus, but Lelutka Evolution has a better, almost invisible neck seam. Genus still shows a patchy seam under unforgiving light and certain movements. Not enough to dump the head, but Lelutka is really on it. I may change another sister over, but for me, I'll stick with Genus and hope they refine it soon. 

Right now I favour Pumec and Itgirls skins

I've been wanting to test out some other heads and thinking about Lelutka.. I really liked their heads before i went to Genus..

I may give the Evolution version a try..

[Qie Niangao]

3 minutes ago, KjartanEno said:

As for the first point, I get what Stray Dog does. The bodies and heads all have matching tones so that they can sell a face "skin" (with a blank body) consisting of a few different colors, and it goes with the corresponding body colors sold separately. Since there are some minor variations between mesh body UV layouts, one purchases the body skin based on the brand one owns. By doing it this way they avoid the need to package multiple body types in every single color with each and every face.

Thanks for the reply. I think pretty much all skin creators now package head skins separately from body skins, and only one or the other can be worn as a Skin layer, but for almost all others I've tried* it's the body that's packaged as a Skin layer or both Skin and Tattoo layers are included.

Of course it's risky to try to "mix and match" head and body skins from different creators at random, but by putting the Body skin on the tattoo layer Stray Dog makes it tricky for third party creators to produce head skins specifically targeted to match those body skins. This really hit me while working with Tableau Vivant's "Zhang" head skin specifically designed to match Stray Dog's body skin. It actually is much better with the Slink BoM body skins (on the Skin layer) than with a Stray Dog Tattoo layer body skin unless there's also a matching Skin layer for it to blend into.

1 hour ago, KjartanEno said:

I use materials on my skins, so I prefer to use Omega appliers without shine for hairbases and eyebrows. Depending on the hair I use, I may have need for one hairbase or another. Of course, your method would be preferable if one only ever uses one kind of hairbase. As for "HD" eyebrows, that's just going to be the usual applier method for mesh heads with layers, but not using the SL UV layout for the head.

Hmm. I knew there were these "HD" applier surfaces for eyebrows, but I'm not sure my LeLutka Evo-generation heads have applier layers for hairbases. I'll have to investigate.

________
* These include Not Found, Raonhausen, and Viena. Poema packages its body skins as both Skin and Tattoo layers. So just now I went hunting demos and found a couple I never use, Birth and Clef de Peau, that also seem to have it backwards same as Stray Dog, whereas The Skinnery body demos are on the Skin layer. I guess I just don't understand why it isn't industry standard to package both layers, as long as there doesn't seem to be a prevailing practice one way or another.

[Blush Bravin]

13 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I've been wanting to test out some other heads and thinking about Lelutka.. I really liked their heads before i went to Genus..

I may give the Evolution version a try..

If you are serious about wanting to try Lelutka now is the time while they are still on sale. I think the sale ends this weekend though so don't wait. 50% off the already reduced price .. so 1999

[Wulfie Reanimator]

16 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

50% off the already reduced price .. so 1999

[steeljane42]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

If you are serious about wanting to try Lelutka now is the time while they are still on sale. I think the sale ends this weekend though so don't wait. 50% off the already reduced price .. so 1999

Sale ended last sunday. So they are 3999, which is a regular price for their heads now.

[Blush Bravin]

1 minute ago, steeljane42 said:

Sale ended last sunday. So they are 3999, which is a regular price for their heads now.

Oh no! That makes me sad.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

22 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

None of your heads came with an eye alpha?  You can get a free one on the MP.

you can actually just make one in appearance add - new alpha - there is one for "eyes" there.

[FairreLilette]

3 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

Oh no! That makes me sad.

Yeah, I went actually and I would have picked up Ryn.  The sale is over, Ryn is now 3999.  I wonder how much more money they would make if the price was lower?  I have to hold off buying it at 3999.