Why BOM? Why?

[Solar Legion]

1 minute ago, MsAfrodite said:

Ahhhh ok, I think I'm getting it...I think! LOL  Thank you☺️

Not a problem!

It's not something most would run into in the Pre-BoM/Post Mesh Body days so rather understandable that ya wouldn't know which icon to look for!

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

56 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

That's not BoM.

And what "special alpha"? You mean one supplied with old standard-sized mesh clothing?

Strictly speaking (see Slink Redux bodies), you don't have multiple layers on BoM bodies -- just the one. And you don't, indeed can't, use appliers. You add skin, makeup, tattoos, and clothing layers in exactly the same way we used to with system bodies.

The only real difference is that you're now wearing a mesh body over the system one. In every other respect, it's the same as the old days.

For example.

This is confusing ; )

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Tarina Sewell

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Tarina Sewell said:

For example.

 

You wouldn't need to use any of those alphas if you're fully BOM.  I use a simple eye alpha as I don't use BOM eyes.  Otherwise, no alpha needed at all.  Those are if you choose NOT to use the BOM function.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

1 minute ago, RowanMinx said:

You wouldn't need to use any of those alphas if you're fully BOM.  I use a simple eye alpha as I don't use BOM eyes.  Otherwise, no alpha needed at all.  Those are if you choose NOT to use the BOM function.

Right, that is what I understand but these presence of these are just confusing to people, and me. lol

 

 

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Tarina Sewell said:

Right, that is what I understand but these presence of these are just confusing to people, and me. lol

 

 

Trust me, I know exactly how you're feeling.  It took me awhile to get the hang of it but honestly, once you do, you'll love it.  I'm now able to wear eyeshadow that does glitch with hair, beauty marks, hairbases that used to use makeup layers.  All of it without one thing being applied and messing up another.

[FairreLilette]

15 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

For example.

This is confusing ; )

 

I think it's because we became a push button society a long time ago.  With the way BOM is now (as shown above), we have to re-train our brains to think differently and I'm being serious not sarcastic because I would look at all that stuff at first and go "huh" too.  Now I understand and it is basically just wearing or detach from yourself once you/we/I get the hang of it.  

What is confusing further though is that I make full BOM skins and so do others and the symbol won't be that red symbol above which is really for tattoos.  Full BOM skins will be the yellow looking person symbol.  You have some in your library already.  Just type in the word SKIN in your inventories search box and you will find the library skins.  Then you just wear the whole BOM skin as one piece.  To change to another skin, just wear another one, and just explaining THIS sounds confusing.  

So, if you get a skin demo with a little yellow person looking symbol that is also a BOM skin but it won't detach, you will have to wear another skin or, in other words, put on another maker's skin in two parts - probably two tattoos (red symbols like above) and put one on for the face and one on for the body.  

[Penny Patton]

11 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

It's too bad that having low complexity doesn't actually mean anything. 50K complexity can easily be much worse than 180K. That's how easy (and common) the complexity exploits are.

Just as an example of this, these days, most avatars I've seen are using around 300MB of VRAM, and it's not uncommon to see avatars using over half a gig of VRAM. SL's complexity calculations barely take texture use into account so many of these avatars are enjoying low complexity scores even though just a few of them on-screen can cause serious performance issues.

[Gabriele Graves]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Strictly speaking (see Slink Redux bodies), you don't have multiple layers on BoM bodies -- just the one. And you don't, indeed can't, use appliers. You add skin, makeup, tattoos, and clothing layers in exactly the same way we used to with system bodies.

You do have multiple layers on some BoM bodies and you can add multiple applier layer over the top of BoM if you have such a body, like with Maitreya.  BoM skin + multiple applier layers is fine, it is applier skins and BoM layer over the top of that cannot be done - not by anyone.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said:

You do have multiple layers on some BoM bodies and you can add multiple applier layer over the top of BoM if you have such a body, like with Maitreya.  BoM skin + multiple applier layers is fine, it is applier skins and BoM layer over the top of that cannot be done - not by anyone.

Most of the lipstick I use is applier over my bom skin.  I prefer it as I can adjust the intensity to my liking.

[Gabriele Graves]

Things that are different or that cannot be done with BoM or BoM alone:

1.  BoM layers cannot contain materials such that you can just wear them and have the materials on an object change.  You have to change materials with an applier as well as wearing the BoM layers.

2. A BoM layer cannot have it's alpha levels changed (blending) without the texture having to being changed.  * Scylla mentioned this one.

3. BoM eyes cannot have different textures for each eye like applier eyes can.

4. Whilst technically possible to have asymmetrical tattoos with BoM alone, it is so impractical to make it work, it is very unlikely there will ever be any BoM asymmetrical tattoos for sale or in common use.  So still need appliers and applier layers for asymmetrical tattoos to be practical reality.

5. BoM can only be tinted if the creator gives them with modify permissions and many don't.

6. Alpha layers for BoM can only alpha out both arms at the same time in the same way.  Alpha cuts can alpha each arm differently or only one arm.

I think that is all I can think of.
 

[Gabriele Graves]

7 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

Most of the lipstick I use is applier over my bom skin.  I prefer it as I can adjust the intensity to my liking.

Yes absolutely many people do including myself sometimes.  Also HD make-ups are appliers as well.

[Gabriele Graves]

I tend to range from being 100% BoM to varying degrees of mixing BoM and appliers depending of what I want to wear and the looks I want to achieve.  I don't think of it as BoM vs appliers as many do, just that we have two toolkits and a way to mix those tools together in some interesting ways.  Each set having it's strengths and weaknesses but neither one providing 100% of the total sum of features that they provide collectively and so neither can replace the other completely.

[Gabriele Graves]

1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

But is there a practical reason to separate them? Like, I completely understand it when it comes to furry/anime heads (especially when you throw in different bodies) since they don't share UVs.

It's not by choice from the customer side, many of us would like a single skin asset.  This causes no end of irritation and confusion amongst people.

The rationale from some skin makers that do this is because they targetting a handful of different bodies and heads and all the permutations are too much work to package up in a skin single asset for each permutation.

In my opinion this is mostly bogus except in theory and just laziness in practice because no skin vendor I have seen makes the same skin for more than one head, even if they have different assets for different bodies and compared to the actual work of providing the art that goes into the skin, I would imagine the work it is miniscule.  Of course they always have the option of just selling us the textures (no-mod - for the paranoid and no-trans of course) and I for one would be delighted to create my own full skin assets the way I prefer and save them the extra work.  For some reason, nobody wants to do this even though there is no extra risk of those textures being ripped than doing what they do currently but then they would be able to sell me the same textures again packaged in another form later could they?

Edited November 25, 2020 by Gabriele Graves
correction.

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

It's not by choice from the customer side, many of us would like a single skin asset.  This causes no end of irritation and confusion amongst people.

The rationale from some skin makers that do this is because they targetting a handful of different bodies and heads and all the permutations are too much work to package up in a skin single asset for each permutation.

In my opinion this is mostly bogus except in theory and just laziness in practice because no skin vendor I have seen makes the same skin for more than one head, even if they have different assets for different bodies and compared to the actual work of providing the art that goes into the skin, I would imagine the work it is miniscule.  Of course they always have the option of just selling us the textures (no-mod - for the paranoid and no-trans of course) and I for one would be delighted to create my own full skin assets the way I prefer and save them the extra work.  For some reason, nobody wants to do this even though there is no extra risk of those textures being ripped than doing what they do currently but then they would be able to sell me the same textures again packaged in another form later could they?

ItGirls actually does make the same head skin for different heads so I can understand it in that respect.  I know most genus skins won't look right on my lelutka.  Several.of their newer BOM skins are made.for the 3 major brands.

[Gabriele Graves]

27 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

ItGirls actually does make the same head skin for different heads so I can understand it in that respect.  I know most genus skins won't look right on my lelutka.  Several.of their newer BOM skins are made.for the 3 major brands.

Well I did say, "no vendor I have seen" 😛 which is true because I don't shop at Itgirls and there are lots of others that only produce for a single head and yet still follow this practice.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Gabriele Graves

[MsAfrodite]

1 hour ago, RowanMinx said:

Click the bakes on mesh button

 

2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

You can use the skins that look like a body.  Those are BOM skins too - just like in the old days.  I don't make tattoo BOM skins like a tattoo...I make full BOM skins with head and body attached in one piece just like in the old days...and the symbol looks like a person in yellow.  If you have old system skins, you can try those on and see how you like them.  

Do you have a store for your BoM skins?

[missyrideout]

2 hours ago, Tarina Sewell said:

For example.

This is confusing ; )

 

Seconded! The naming scheme for these Lelutka alphas trips me up every time. So, BOM Head/Body, APPLIER Eyes is an eye alpha. The name refers to the state of your avatar: if you are using  BOM head/body and applier eyes wear this.  But, even knowing that I find myself staring at the options thinking wait, what?

[Gabriele Graves]

This is why mine are named like this:

[Orwar]

10 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

But is there a practical reason to separate them? Like, I completely understand it when it comes to furry/anime heads (especially when you throw in different bodies) since they don't share UVs.

But what I'm imagining right now is "Tone A: body", "Tone A: head", "Tone B: body", "Tone B: head", or is there something more to it?

   It varies from brand to brand, but in short, 'yes'.

   As far as 'head skins' go, things are simple enough - just include variants for different brow colours and a no-brow option usually (why they don't just make tattoo layers for the eyebrows separately, I don't know!). But when you then add bodies into the mix, things may start getting a bit wild.

   The skin brand I'm currently using have 4 different types - regular, athletic, ripped, and chubby. Each of them then has 4 options for cleavage shading; regular, dehanced, petite, and curvy. Then you have all of the options again, without *ahems* and *ahem-hems*. Then you have it all over again, with freckles. So, opening the folder for the body skin alone the first time is a bit of a chock if you don't know what to expect - if you then were to multiply it all by 4 again for blonde brows, brunette brows, black brows, and no brows, I expect people would take to the hills.

   ... And that's all before even going into the different tones!

   The other skin brand I use do it the other way around. The actual skin contains the body skin plus the 'base' body skin, and then you can add various tattoo layers for the different boobage options, muscle definition, etc. Which I think is much easier. But when people had appliers with dosens of options in them, I guess the skin makers didn't know how to approach it when switching over to BoM. Some succeeded better than others, and hopefully the more successful approach will be adopted eventually by more brands.

[Laurel Aurelia]

9 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

ItGirls actually does make the same head skin for different heads so I can understand it in that respect.  I know most genus skins won't look right on my lelutka.  Several.of their newer BOM skins are made.for the 3 major brands.

I've actually seen a trend now where other designers have started  to do this as well.  I know Pepe Skin's newer stuff is made for Lelutka and Genus,  Mudskin I think has a couple for Lelutka, Genus, and Catwa. And while Uber shopping this morning I saw that even Bold & Beauty's new skin is for Lelutka and Genus. I am sure there are others too that do it as well.

I know there was a time when BOM first came out that the necks did not look great , but with the invention of universal necks  I've seen most of the big designers move away from the neck blenders  to just a head skin and body skin.  Things will continue to get streamlined I think.

[FairreLilette]

9 hours ago, MsAfrodite said:

 

Do you have a store for your BoM skins?

Soon, but I only have MP and two tiny booths I rent in a mall inworld.  However, right now I only have limited fantasy skins but soon I will have some for humans.  It takes a very long time to make things plus I got the flu shot and after the flu shot it made me tired and I had complete inertia from the flu shot for a month.  I am working a little bit now.

I have made 1000's of items at least that I've never brought to market due to the workload to make things in SL.  One would never realize how much work it is to make things here unless they did it.  For instance, you have to be designer, animator, scripter, photography, marketer, texture artist, I mean the work is so much that I make most of my items for myself and bring only a few to market.   I love being able to sell things inworld where the item itself is the vendor and people just click on that item to buy a copy - it saves tons of work for me that way as all I have to do is rez the item and set it to buy a copy or contents.  I will have a limited supply of human skins and make-ups because the workload is too much for me, but one of the skins is the prettiest skin I've ever seen in SL.  It's just gorgeous.  Others may have a different view of it as beauty is seen in the eye of the beholder.  But, for the first time since I've been a mesh avatar, I finally said "she's pretty" and been excited about it because mostly I've said I'm just not happy with my avatar.  Well, BOM changed it for me in that I could make my own skins and for the first time say "I'm pretty".  I could cry...it's made a world of difference for me.    

Edited November 25, 2020 by FairreLilette

[FairreLilette]

11 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

Most of the lipstick I use is applier over my bom skin.  I prefer it as I can adjust the intensity to my liking.

I find many lipsticks are not the correct fit even with blending them sheer.  In my photo below, it's a tattoo BOM add on lipstick that fits correctly on the lip.  This is one thing I had never been happy about either...the way the lipsticks don't fit right - the one's from the HUD that sheer out I mean.  Although in your photo, your lipstick looks like it fits.  It could be because I prefer albino to porcelain skins which is {somewhat} rare for SL and with light skins I could really see on the Catwa Hud the lipstick was going over and above the lip rather than on the lip.  

This photo below is a BOM lipstick and it fits perfect.  Also, sheerness with BOM lipsticks could be achieved by sheering them in Photoshop.

For me, now having made BOM lipsticks for myself, the fit is pretty good.  I'm still working on the lipstick.  

Edited November 25, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Rowan Amore]

21 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I find many lipsticks are not the correct fit even with blending them sheer.  In my photo below, it's a tattoo BOM add on lipstick that fits correctly on the lip.  This is one thing I had never been happy about either...the way the lipsticks don't fit right - the one's from the HUD that sheer out I mean.  Although in your photo, your lipstick looks like it fits.  It could be because I prefer albino to porcelain skins which is {somewhat} rare for SL and with light skins I could really see on the Catwa Hud the lipstick was going over and above the lip rather than on the lip.  

This photo below is a BOM lipstick and it fits perfect.  Also, sheerness with BOM lipsticks could be achieved by sheering them in Photoshop.

For me, now having made BOM lipsticks for myself, the fit is pretty good.  I'm still working on the lipstick.  

It's actually been difficult finding lipstick in shades that look good on a darker skintone.  Most are too light or as you mentioned, don't fit my particular lip shape.  I have found a couple stores that do seem to make theirs with people like me in mind.  Purple Beauty being my favorite right now.   

I don't use photoshop or really any editing software so fixing something there is not in my wheelhouse.   I'm happy with still being able to use appliers on my BOM skin/head.

[FairreLilette]

3 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

 I'm happy with still being able to use appliers on my BOM skin/head.

Yeah, I am too but for eyeliner and blush because I love Catwa's eyeliner in that it's white which I like for my "fairy" style avatars, the white eyeliner to me is a bit magical looking.  

But, lipsticks are difficult because of the map itself.  Someone on the forum said making lipsticks are easy, omg, not in my experience...it's been hell!  lol

[MsAfrodite]

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

Soon, but I only have MP and two tiny booths I rent in a mall inworld.  However, right now I only have limited fantasy skins but soon I will have some for humans.  It takes a very long time to make things plus I got the flu shot and after the flu shot it made me tired and I had complete inertia from the flu shot for a month.  I am working a little bit now.

I have made 1000's of items at least that I've never brought to market due to the workload to make things in SL.  One would never realize how much work it is to make things here unless they did it.  For instance, you have to be designer, animator, scripter, photography, marketer, texture artist, I mean the work is so much that I make most of my items for myself and bring only a few to market.   I love being able to sell things inworld where the item itself is the vendor and people just click on that item to buy a copy - it saves tons of work for me that way as all I have to do is rez the item and set it to buy a copy or contents.  I will have a limited supply of human skins and make-ups because the workload is too much for me, but one of the skins is the prettiest skin I've ever seen in SL.  It's just gorgeous.  Others may have a different view of it as beauty is seen in the eye of the beholder.  But, for the first time since I've been a mesh avatar, I finally said "she's pretty" and been excited about it because mostly I've said I'm just not happy with my avatar.  Well, BOM changed it for me in that I could make my own skins and for the first time say "I'm pretty".  I could cry...it's made a world of difference for me.    

Awww I get what you mean! I have a friend who actually created two of my Avatars, this one I'm working on is one of them. She's a creator at heart. She also changes her Avi a LOT and I do as well but not as often since I've been back to SL this year.  When you can finally look at your Avi and say you're happy or wow this is beautiful feels good. Who cares what others may think or say, it's what makes you happy and that's all that matters. ♥️

Take care of yourself and get your rest. I got my flu shot not too long ago and it is weird how it can make you tired, etc. I sleep came home after I got mine and sleep the entire day lol. 

Anywhoo I am going to get some sleep, I've been up all night working on my Avi and I'm exhausted and my brain is turning to mush!  I'll work on her hair, etc after I sleep for a few hrs.