Why BOM? Why?

[FairreLilette]

18 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

Also, the fact they put SL on the cloud helps.

The clouds helps yes but it wasn't just the cloud.  I have been BOM over a month at least with my Catwa head and then bought Lelutka and LAQ heads for the Black Friday sales.  In my BOM skin with my Catwa head for the Black Friday sales I went breezing all around through very heavy sale traffic, no lag.  Then I had AIDA on an applier to see how the old skins fitted on an Origins head and then went shopping and could hardly move.  I have AIDA on full BOM now and she's breezing all around busy places with no lag and I just left the Maitreya sale which was very, very busy and had no lag.  I will never go applier again.  

[Kamila Kranfel]

only a newbie can say that.

[Gabriele Graves]

I can categorically say that the skin does not have a darker area drawn on the head above the neck line and the textures are seamless, I have verified all of this.  The mesh is seamless and the textures are seamless.  What you are seeing is a slight shadow, nothing more.

5 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

No, I said it's barely noticeable.  It's noticeable because I said that is where the seams meet.  It's very difficult to get the shading correctly there as the textures split in the middle of the neck where I said it's a bit noticeable as darker up top - meaning that is one texture where I said just a bit darker.  Then a texture connects right there and it's called the torso texture but it has a bit of neck too on the torso texture which is another texture.  It isn't really very noticeable at all, however.  

5 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

You're right in that it's not really a quote unquote seam on your avatar...it's just darker towards the top of the neck right about where the head and torso textures would meet.  I have that too on some of my BOM skins, it's not really a seam but the it's the shadows acting oddly and it's darker towards the top.

These two quotes of yours tell two different stories that are at odds with each other.  The highlighted parts are just to show how ridiculous this is.  It's either a seam or it's not a seam - not both.  It is either shadows or drawn that way - not both.  Either you are wriggling dishonestly just to be right or you just don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Here is the bottom line once again in case anyone else thinks it is about my picture or my avatar:

There is no visible neck seam on Lelutka Origins heads with a Maitreya body and a good skin.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Gabriele Graves
missing word.

[FairreLilette]

7 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I have that too on some of my BOM skins, it's not really a seam but the it's the shadows acting oddly and it's darker towards the top.

It does act oddly with these BOM skins I got in that the shadows do change and align appropriately under certain lightings.  Whereas, if you don't use the lighting, it's a full seam, to a partial seam, to a slight seam - depending on lighting and tweaking that lighting even further.

I said your photo it looks like the shading making a seam but that's what I see.  Darker at the top where the textures meet - i.e. that would be the shading really not the shadows.

EDIT:  Looking at your photo again, it does look a lot lighter on the bottom half of the neck.  

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by FairreLilette

[FairreLilette]

8 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

There is no visible neck seam on Lelutka Origins heads with a Maitreya body and a good skin.

You don't say whether you mean an applier skin or BOM skin.   So, okay, I lightened your skin in Photoshop and took out the part that looked like "a gap" on the side of the neck, which I have too on my new AIDA head, btw - that gap thing.  But, it's not really a gap although mine looks exactly like yours in your picture on certain angles - it's more triangular shading on the sides of the neck causing it.

So, I took what looks like a gap out of your photo and with the brightening of the photo, I see under the jawline does not meet correctly; however, without the gap there, the neck looks better - so that "seam" me and another poster were seeing could have to do with that gap there sort of pointing the way in your photo and making it stand out more.

I am having this issue also with some BOM skins I've tried on my Origins head, that the jawline does not align too well - the shading could be off especially if with BOM we have to go back to the old UV's.  

In the short or the long version, these Origins heads are not easy to find any skins other than applier skins that really fit well, and I will put this is my opinion from what I've seen so far.

However, in my photo below I paid about 1200 lindens for a face and body skin for my AIDA and the neck is terrible which I did not notice until I got these other BOM skins to demo with terribly visible neck seams UNLESS one changes the lighting.  So, it's got me wondering what's up with this?

I really like this AIDA head but finding a BOM skin is proving very challenging.   Again, Aida is wearing a popular skin brand's BOM for Lelutka and it's got neck problems and a gap in the same place.

[Blush Bravin]

52 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

It does act oddly with these BOM skins

If it acts oddly with a BoM skin then it would do exactly the same thing if that skin were applied with an applier. The baking system does not change the texture or how it's applied to the mesh.

53 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

EDIT:  Looking at your photo again, it does look a lot lighter on the bottom half of the neck.  

I thought it would be interesting to look at the neck more closely ... so using a gyazo to copy a portion of the picture this is what I found. Clearly there is no line at the seam.

Then using color blocks to compare shades I found this

Now it may be difficult to discern the subtle shade differences, but that is two shades color blocked. The red line is the seam join. I did not color block all the various shades as seeing two was enough to provide evidence. You can see that the shade continues from the top of the red line to below the red line and it's the same exact shade above and below the line. Of course there will be a difference between the area of the neck which is shaded by the chin and the lower neck near the collarbone. If a skin doesn't have that subtle shading difference there it will look very unnatural. But again, this has nothing to do with Bakes on Mesh. 

[Blush Bravin]

I ONLY use BoM skins! I've not used an applier skin for months. I made the transition as soon as FS adopted BoM. This is in normal windlight. Lelutka Evo Erin head with Maitreya Lara mesh body. Amara Beauty skin.

and here with the same exact skin in CaWl

Edited December 5, 2020 by Blush Bravin

[FairreLilette]

10 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I ONLY use BoM skins! I've not used an applier skin for months. I made the transition as soon as FS adopted BoM. This is in normal windlight. Lelutka Evo Erin head with Maitreya Lara mesh body. Amara Beauty skin.

and here with the same exact skin in CaWl

From what I've seen so far after only three days of shopping, the Lelutka BOM skins say for EVO skins.  They do not say for Evo and Origins heads.  I had to buy a skin that said for Lelutka EVO.  Well, I settled...until I really find what I want...at least I'm hoping to find a good skin for her that is BOM.

Why can't Lelutka just take the old applier textures for Aida and make them BOM?

I also found out the skin for Lelutka Aida was made by Glam Affair.  So, I went to Glam Affair and found what I believe may be Aida's default skin which is adorable BUT at Glam Affair I could not find a body skin.  I then saw a sign and it said - looking for a body skin for Maitreya?  Use your Hud.  Ug!  That looked terrible Glam Affair and a default Maitreya body skin from the Maitreya Hud.  Not a good look.  

Edited December 5, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Blush Bravin]

3 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

From what I've seen so far after only three days of shopping, the Lelutka BOM skins say for EVO skins.  They do not say for Evo and Origins skin.  I had to buy a skin that said for Lelutka EVO.  Well, I settled...until I really find what I want...at least I'm hoping to find a good skin for her that is BOM.

Why can't Lelutka just take the old applier textures for Aida and make them BOM?

I also found out the skin for Lelutka Aida was made by Glam Affair.  So, I went to Glam Affair and found what I believe may be Aida's default skin which is adorable BUT at Glam Affair I could not find a body skin.  I then saw a sign and it said - looking for a body skin for Maitreya?  Use your Hud.  Ug!  That looked terrible Glam Affair and a default Maitreya body skin from the Maitreya Hud.  Not a good look.  

The default skins in the Maitreya HUD ARE Glam Affair skins. The match perfectly! You just have to be sure you're using the right tone with the head skin.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Blush Bravin

[FairreLilette]

1 minute ago, Blush Bravin said:

The default skins in the Mait ARE Glam Affair skins. The match perfectly! You just have to be sure you're using the right tone with the head skin.

The default head skin for Aida is adorable and one of the reasons for my purchase.  I love it!  It's cute!  But, that body skin on the Maitreya HUD, whilst, yes, it matches perfectly, doesn't have good detail on the body.  I didn't like it at all.  

[Blush Bravin]

4 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

From what I've seen so far after only three days of shopping, the Lelutka BOM skins say for EVO skins.  They do not say for Evo and Origins skin. 

I would not use a skin made specifically for Evo on an Origins head. The rigging is different enough to cause some issues. That's why I never liked Omega because I truly believe the concept of one size fits all just doesn't work in SL. 

Of course you should go ahead and demo just in case a skin might work on both. But I think you're best bet is to stay with skins made specifically for your brand and style of head.

[Blush Bravin]

2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

The default head skin for Aida is adorable and one of the reasons for my purchase.  I love it!  It's cute!  But, that body skin on the Maitreya HUD, whilst, yes, it matches perfectly, doesn't have good detail on the body.  I didn't like it at all.  

Ah, I get that then. I'm super picky about the details on the body. But honestly, there are lots and lots of skins out there that are available as BoM for you to try. Might I suggest you give Amara Beauty a try.

[FairreLilette]

12 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Of course you should go ahead and demo just in case a skin might work on both. But I think you're best bet is to stay with skins made specifically for your brand and style of head.

That would be applier from what I've currently seen and I don't want those.  This is what I don't get about this.  I've spent lindens here for this and it has a BOM button but then the BOM skins coming out are for the EVO line so why put a BOM button there at all? 

 

12 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Ah, I get that then. I'm super picky about the details on the body. But honestly, there are lots and lots of skins out there that are available as BoM for you to try. Might I suggest you give Amara Beauty a try.

Amara beauty is my next bet to matching a body skin somewhat if I find a head skin other than for the EVO line, but, if I do find a BOM skin for the origins line, I'm sure they will have a body.

[Blush Bravin]

1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

That would be applier from what I've currently seen and I don't want those.  This is what I don't get about this.  I've spent lindens here for this and it has a BOM button but then the BOM skins coming out are for the EVO line so why put a BOM button there at all? 

 

Amara beauty is my next bet to matching a body skin somewhat if I find a head skin other than for the EVO line, but, if I do find a BOM skin for the origins line, I'm sure they will have a body.

The Amara skins come as a full skin. Body and head complete. So you don't have to worry about matching anything. She has lots of skins for origins and evo lines.

[Ceka Cianci]

I'm using skinnery for my head and body and they do really good work as well.. Even before BOM I was happy with the blend I was getting with my Genus head and Maitreya body.. I think most of their skins are just about updated to BOM if not all of them..

I switched over to BOM recently and really liking  it so far.. It just seems simpler..

 

ETA: Another thing I'm gonna like about it when I go in today is, All the rest of the stuff I have left over from before mesh, that I am about to try on and toss out..

I have a feeling I'll be tossing things a directory at a time and making my inventory load less of a pain to deal with.. hehehe

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Ceka Cianci

[Blush Bravin]

12 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I'm using skinnery

I really like Skinnery too! In fact, I am using some of the skin details that come with the Skinnery body skins with my AB skin. I've bought several skin tones from Skinnery just so I could use those details with whatever skin I like at the moment. Another thing to love about BoM! It's so easy to mix and match items from different sources to create the perfect YOU!

Edited December 5, 2020 by Blush Bravin

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

The Amara skins come as a full skin. Body and head complete. So you don't have to worry about matching anything. She has lots of skins for origins and evo lines.

Ok, just came back from Amara.

They have about 15 I'd say BOM skins for Lelutka at Amara.  All but one skin are for the EVO line.  I did like one skin out of the 15 a bit but I'm not ready to jump at it yet.  But only one skin was for the Origins head.  

From my understanding in reading this thread, one poster said "they had to break the map" to get the map to work for Lelutka mesh heads.  So, okay, now then, they had to make a new head (hence, Evo line) to make the mesh heads fit better for BOM.  So, that could be why almost all the BOM skins for Lelutka are EVO advertised - they had to make a new head for the old tattoo type map. 

But, what I don't understand is why not put out the old Origins skins as BOM...well, then it's because that "broken" map does not work with BOM now.

I am not be explaining this too well.  

I hope I can find a skin for AIDA that is BOM.  It has a button.  It should have skins somewhere. ...............

16 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I'm using skinnery for my head and body and they do really good work as well.. Even before BOM I was happy with the blend I was getting with my Genus head and Maitreya body.. I think most of their skins are just about updated to BOM if not all of them..

I switched over to BOM recently and really liking  it so far.. It just seems simpler..

 

My photo here that I already put up above but I will put it below again IS from The Skinnery.  The match does not work for Lelutka too match too well at the neck.  

With my Catwa head, I've had very little problem switching over.   You can click on my photo to make it bigger.  However, I feel I could wear a choker.  I'd rather wear a choker than have all that lag.  BOM is a real blessing.  

Edited December 5, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Blush Bravin]

Let's see if I can explain this. Recently, Lelutka updated the Evo line so that the first few EVO heads made were rerigged and now respond to shape sliders the same way the newer heads respond. Nothing is broken in actuality; however, if you try to use a shape made prior to the rerigging on one of the updated heads the head is going to look strange. As a result, skins made for the old Evo heads prior to the update may also look odd on the rerigged heads.

Now how does this apply to the AB skins??? Well nearly every skin in the AB line that indicates it's for the EVO line were made prior to the heads being updated. So go get demos of all those skins and try them with your head. They may fit beautifully on your origins head. But you won't know if you don't try them.

[Ceka Cianci]

19 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

My photo here that I already put up above but I will put it below again IS from The Skinnery.  The match does not work for Lelutka too match too well at the neck.  

With my Catwa head, I've had very little problem switching over.  

Just curious which version of the Maitreya body you are using? I went back to 5.2 from v5.3 myself for a couple of reasons.. But I wonder if updating or going back a version might help..

Just a thought to try out..

Edited December 5, 2020 by Ceka Cianci

[Blush Bravin]

15 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

My photo here that I already put up above but I will put it below again IS from The Skinnery.  The match does not work for Lelutka too match too well at the neck.  

I don't know if you've updated your Skinnery skin. Up until recently you had to use a neck blender tattoo provided with the Skinnery skins to get a perfect match at the neck seam. The skins have been updated to no longer need that neck blender; however, since you're using an older Lelutka head, I'm not sure if the Origin necks had the update for the neck normals. So you may have to play around with the neck type in the Maitreya HUD to see which one matches better. 

 

19 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I hope I can find a skin for AIDA that is BOM.  It has a button. 

Having a button for BoM doesn't mean anything other than the head is set up to be able to use system layers through the baking system. It doesn't imply anything else. I doubt you're going to find a skin specifically made for Aida that is a system layer. 

[Ceka Cianci]

11 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Let's see if I can explain this. Recently, Lelutka updated the Evo line so that the first few EVO heads made were rerigged and now respond to shape sliders the same way the newer heads respond. Nothing is broken in actuality; however, if you try to use a shape made prior to the rerigging on one of the updated heads the head is going to look strange. As a result, skins made for the old Evo heads prior to the update may also look odd on the rerigged heads.

Now how does this apply to the AB skins??? Well nearly every skin in the AB line that indicates it's for the EVO line were made prior to the heads being updated. So go get demos of all those skins and try them with your head. They may fit beautifully on your origins head. But you won't know if you don't try them.

omg i noticed this on one shape I tried on that was a voluptuous body.. My neck looked like the hulks neck.. hehehehe

I was like, well not gonna do that for sure! hehehe

This is good to know, Thank you

Edited December 5, 2020 by Ceka Cianci

[Blush Bravin]

7 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Just curious which version of the Maitreya body you are using? I went back to 5.2 from v5.3

The changes from v5.2 to 5.3 specifically dealt with body to head neck matching. So v5.3 is going to be better for matching the neck in most cases.

[Katherine Heartsong]

I have bought a new EVO Lake and have the 5.3 Lara body ... I need to test this out ASAP. Best place to get matching head/body (demo) skins for me to try out for that combo of products is ...... ?

[Ceka Cianci]

9 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

The changes from v5.2 to 5.3 specifically dealt with body to head neck matching. So v5.3 is going to be better for matching the neck in most cases.

Now that I switched over to BOM I'll give 5.3 another try.. Thank you

[FairreLilette]

55 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Now how does this apply to the AB skins??? Well nearly every skin in the AB line that indicates it's for the EVO line were made prior to the heads being updated. So go get demos of all those skins and try them with your head. They may fit beautifully on your origins head. But you won't know if you don't try them

Okay, AB line.  There were a couple of AB line skins at Amara.  I was wondering what those were.  So thankies.  This is something to go on.

 

46 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I don't know if you've updated your Skinnery skin. Up until recently you had to use a neck blender tattoo provided with the Skinnery skins to get a perfect match at the neck seam. The skins have been updated to no longer need that neck blender; however, since you're using an older Lelutka head, I'm not sure if the Origin necks had the update for the neck normals. So you may have to play around with the neck type in the Maitreya HUD to see which one matches better. 

I just bought the Skinnery skin two days ago, so I'm sure it's the updated one.  

I will have to check out the neck type in Maitreya to see which one works better.

I have my homework here but plan on shopping many skins for Lelutka this weekend.  

Oh, and p.s. there is NO eye alpha with AIDA as someone else had asked me in this thread.  I am attempting to make one as was also suggest in this thread.  I have the alpha on now but it's a white texture so I'm guessing I just need to make a transparent in PS and put that transparent there where the white default one is.  I've never made an alpha before, only partial ones to use as layers.