Would a Second Life parliament work?

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

even then such a process would not really work that well. giving the power to the people/residents of sl beyond what has already been given through the ownership of private regions, would be catastrophic

any kind of commonality where everyone had to adhere to such rules would not work on a large scale. the residents by no means know what is best for anyone else but themselves.

[Conifer Dada]

How would we know that people weren't putting lots of alts up for election? 

 

 

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

1 minute ago, Conifer Dada said:

How would we know that people weren't putting lots of alts up for election? 

 

 

so just a few people actually in control because all of the other susposed members in control are still just them behind a disguise.

wait..

doesn't sl already work that way..

after all there is only 2 real people here.. 

me and my alt LL..

[Mollymews]

33 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

any kind of commonality where everyone had to adhere to such rules would not work on a large scale. the residents by no means know what is best for anyone else but themselves.

no more or less so than happens in a real world democracy. People typically vote for what they believe is in their own best interests. Sometimes those voted on interests make their way into the rules, sometimes not

 

a bit on how Linden do it today. Linden have a consultative process for engaging with residents. Mostly thru the Linden User Groups, and Linden also listen thru the JIRA and forums and tickets processes. And sometimes also thru informal contacts with individual residents. Essentially residents self-select and get listened to when what they propose is largely in line, or can be adapted realatively easily, to conform with current Linden thinking

which altogether is pretty much how feudal England was in the time of William I, circa 1067AD

Edited July 30, 2020 by Mollymews
and tickets

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

6 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

no more or less so than happens in a real world democracy. People typically vote for what they believe is in their own best interests. Sometimes those voted on interests make their way into the rules, sometimes not

 

a bit on how Linden do it today. Linden have a consultative process for engaging with residents. Mostly thru the Linden User Groups, and Linden also listen thru the JIRA and forums processes. And sometimes also thru informal contacts with individual residents. Essentially residents self-select and get listened to when what they propose is largely in line, or can be adapted realatively easily, to conform with current Linden thinking

which altogether is pretty much how feudal England was in the time of William I, circa 1067AD

when you explain it that way it makes more sense. 

i have known of other games as mentioned earlier that did use similar types of govenerning bodies to actually direct the outcome of their worlds evolution. but then again that is needed at some level anyways. any game developer that only does it their way 100% of the time is a doomed game developer.

but as is being asked about by the op I dont really think would work that well as can be seen by how many sims already are governed by the private owners of them and the sometimes ridiculous rules they come up with.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold

[Nova Convair]

We already have a working system - based on anarchy and local dictatorship. Works fine and no overhead and no dumb blubbering people aka known as politicians and no taxes.

That works because SL is not RL and for the same reason democracy can't work in SL.

Too many people confuse RL and SL it seems. 😁

[Mollymews]

7 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

but as is being asked about by the op I dont really think would work that well as can be seen by how many sims already are governed by the private owners of them and the sometimes ridiculous rules they come up with.

i think that if Second Life was to advance about 500 years from William I to Henry VI then the private estates (region owners) would fall into the minor nobility category. Similar to baronetcy fiefdoms.  And being minor nobility, thus excluded from the House of Lords, would I think be left largely to their own devices in the administration of their estates provided they pay the taxes demanded of them by the Monarch and adhere to the Treaty obligations (RL laws and such) as demanded by the House of Lords thru the general provisions of the ToS

where I think a House of Commons could potentially be viable is on mainland. It may also be feudalistic, electors restricted to Premium members (mainland parcel taxpayers) and mainland parcel renters who can proof their rental at time of election

another Bill that could come before the House "That mainland continents with mixed G and M rated regions, excepting the area generally known as Linden Village to remain G, be re-designated to M. That a continent made up of solely G regions be established for those who want a complete G experience"

this would I think be another interesting debate. And if passed then Linden Monarch might Assent to it also

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

1 minute ago, Nova Convair said:

We already have a working system - based on anarchy and local dictatorship. Works fine and no overhead and no dumb blubbering people aka known as politicians and no taxes.

That works because SL is not RL and for the same reason democracy can't work in SL.

Too many people confuse RL and SL it seems. 😁

sl is rl but with a twist, the only real difference is nothing physical can happen outside of emotionally or mentally caused physical issues.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

3 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

another Bill that could come before the House "That mainland continents with mixed G and M rated regions, excepting the area generally known as Linden Village to remain G, be re-designated to M. That a continent made up of solely G regions be established for those who want a complete G experience"

this would I think be another interesting debate. And if passed then Linden Monarch might Assent to it also

that would take too much re-arrangement of the sims to put all the g sims together or all the m sims together. to arbitrarily just change a g to m or m to g would upset a lot of people and make some just leave. so would require the movement of such sims to different locations.

and if they went around moving sims to accomplish this it would destroy the builds of certain sims that have linking roads or waterways or trains. or would require tremendous time and energy and money to make sure that this did not happen.

also being forced to have to move from one region or another just because the rating was being changed may upset some and make them decide to leave. because yes some would be forced to move if they didn't want to live in that newly re-rated sim. it would be frustrating to many to have to pick up everything find a new home and then start over again.

[Mollymews]

21 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

to arbitrarily just change a g to m or m to g would upset a lot of people and make some just leave. so would require the movement of such sims to different locations

 

am not sure that it would cause a lot of upset. On some continents there are sets of 4 contiguous G- rated regions interspersed among the largely M-rated regions of the continents.  I don't think that people on these regions would be terribly upset if their region was to be re-rated M, given that they have 3 M-rated regions immediately adjacent

for a G-only continent then the existing Sharp continent is all G. Additional regions could be added to it, to meet any demand from people wanting to move from the other continents for a total G experience on all sides

is true like you say there might be some upset at this, but I don't think it will be as loud or angry as the forced march from M to A when the Zindra continent came online. The G people probably be quite happy to not see their neighbour across the region boundary sunbathing naked in their front garden. Something that the G people don't want to prevent M people from doing. just that they would rather not see it from their own front gardens

Edited July 30, 2020 by Mollymews
3 not 2 counting the diagonal

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

21 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

am not sure that it would cause a lot of upset. On some continents there are sets of 4 contiguous G- rated regions interspersed among the largely M-rated regions of the continents.  I don't think that people on these regions would be terribly upset if their region was to be re-rated M, given that they have 3 M-rated regions immediately adjacent

for a G-only continent then the existing Sharp continent is all G. Additional regions could be added to it, to meet any demand from people wanting to move from the other continents for a total G experience on all sides

is true like you say there might be some upset at this, but I don't think it will be as loud or angry as the forced march from M to A when the Zindra continent came online. The G people probably be quite happy to not see their neighbour across the region boundary sunbathing naked in their front garden. Something that the G people don't want to prevent M people from doing. just that they would rather not see it from their own front gardens

people can be very picky about their sim rating and their sim location in relationship to other sims.

some would probably not care but others would.

and im pretty sure that the move to zindra probably drove some users away because of the location change. as would any other major change. sure not enough that LL would ever really care about it but still may happen.

simple solution about not seeing the neighbors is make any m sim that is next to a g sim require all parcels to set their visibility to neighbors off in the parcel settings. then they would not see that anymore.

[Mollymews]

3 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

simple solution about not seeing the neighbors is make any m sim that is next to a g sim require all parcels to set their visibility to neighbors off in the parcel settings

if there was a House of Commons then I think this would probably be one of the most vigorously debated issue ever. "That all M-rated mainland parcel owners adjacent to G-rated regions must disable their parcel visibility option"

if passed and assented to am pretty sure this would cause a riot with pitchforks

main pitchfork: My M-rated neighbour on the other side loves it when I sunbath naked in my front garden, even tho we both pretend they aren't peeping 😹

[Love Zhaoying]

I'm fine with either Parliament or Funkadelic.

[Nick0678]

1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

i think that if Second Life was to advance about 500 years from William I to Henry VI then the private estates (region owners) would fall into the minor nobility category.

Well Private Estates are actually the ones that the Labs are making very good money from, so.... not gonna happen.

Monthly Tier Estimates:

Private Estates  US$ 2.970 Million  VS    Mainland      US$ 704 Thousands

 

Ownership Total General Moderate Adult Offline Total Area (km)               Linden Owned 8285 1609 6264 412 0 542.97 Private Estates 16662 1053 9301 6303 5 1091.96

[Mollymews]

23 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Well Private Estates are actually the ones that the Labs are making very good money from, so.... not gonna happen

is a thought exercise, if it did happen (not saying that it ever will) then how might it done. What might it look like if it was, are there any RL parallels to compare against, and why would it be done if it was

is lots of reasons why it won't be done tho, including the reason you mention

Edited July 30, 2020 by Mollymews
be

[Nick0678]

4 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

is a thought exercise, if it did happen (not saying that it ever will) then how might it done. What might it look like if it was, are there any RL parallels to compare against, and why would it be done if it was

is lots of reasons why it won't done tho, including the reason you mention

And that's the beauty of SL, although it's impossible to have a "user based" SL global government you could find people who are like minded and interested with the idea of it , organize a community in your own lands that will work under the rules that your ideal government type approves and experience it. Same way the Gorean and other Roleplaying communities do.

[Mollymews]

16 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

And that's the beauty of SL, although it's impossible to have a "user based" SL global government you could find people who are like minded and interested with the idea of it , organize a community in your own lands that will work under the rules that your ideal government type approves and experience it. Same way the Gorean and other Roleplaying communities do.

yes for sure. There are and have been quite a few societies over the years formed by residents in SL along democratic, or maybe more accurately semi-democratic lines, not only in roleplay but also in a modern day normal-ish kind of group activity

semi-democratic in the sense that while these societies might vote on stuff, elect representatives, have community meetings to decide direction and so on, at the end of it all somebody still has to pay the tiers. And when they do fold it tends to be when the tier isn't paid. People vote with their money in the final analysis

[Sammy Huntsman]

No and No. Simply put, why do we need a system of government in SL?

 

[Ren Toxx]

Paid by? Voted by? Supervised by?

[Paul Hexem]

[Sammy Huntsman]

Let me reiterate something. Keep SL SL and RL RL. No need to add stuff like a government system. Then we would have power hungry idiots running for power and making the grid oh so awesome. Lol.

[Lindal Kidd]

I think we should make it like the old Polish legistature...no law may be passed except by a unanimous vote of all the members.

That way, they could indulge their desire to be powerful and respected lawmakers, without the risk of saddling anyone with any laws.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

20 hours ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

A body of elected representatives from different groups of residents of Second Life in one legislative body?

The Confederation of Democratic Simulators is still very much a going concern after 16 years -- which is a hell of a long time in SL terms. It's very successful, and very interesting.

It's not an attempt to "run" SL, but rather an experiment in governance in a virtual worlds environment. It's worth checking out, if you are at all interested in that.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Jumpman Lane]

Linden Lab once said Anshe was the GOVERNMENT. And she ran her sims with an iron lil fist!

As for Jumpy, I always said "God, country, and the Governance Team." That's where I put my faith lol.

[ArgontheDevil Ormega]

22 hours ago, Mollymews said:

as a thought exercise then how it might work is to think of Second Life as a nation

a nation with a feudal parliamentary monarchy where there is a Monarch, a upper House of Lords and a Lower House of Commons.  In this model the Monarch is the CEO who rules on the sufferance of the House of Lords (the Board and shareholders). And there is a House of Commons (the resident elected representative body) who have no say in the appointment of the Monarch or in the issuing of Warrants (staff appointments) which is the sole preserve of the Monarch

in addition, the House of Lords thru the Monarch retains to itself all matters of the Treasury. Taxation (fees) and Budget (expenditure and resource allocation). And also retains to itself its Treaty obligations with other monarchies and republics. I.e. the US government, the State of California, and other world governments where Second Life as a nation has treaty/legal obligations to them

the House of Commons would in practice be restricted to considerations of Community Standards within the Second Life nation.  And being a monarchy any resolution of the House of Commons would, as is the  practice of feudal parliamentary monarchies, be subject to the Assent of the Monarch. Assent power given by the House of Lords

there would be no elected Ministers of the Crown, or an elected Prime Minister. The House of Commons may elect a Leader of the House but the Leader has no constitutional power to enforce the will of the House of Commons. They have to negotiate with the Monarch and gain Assent for the will of the Commons to be realised

the Monarch would appoint the Ministers of the Crown (Oz, Grumpity, Patch, etc). An appointment process similar to the US Cabinet process. Crown Ministers who execute their duties in the service of the nation according to the conditions of their Warrant. A Crown Minister would be the Minister of Justice for example. Who would employ Police Officers (Linden Governance staff) to enforce the laws (ToS) of the nation

when work all this thru then the Second Life nation would be pretty similar to feudal England in about the reign of Henry VI circa 1450AD

a Community Standards Bill for the Second Life House of Commons to consider.  Bill resolution: "That all mainland regions, other than those excepted by the Monarch for historical freedom purposes, are henceforth to have the same covenant as the Bellissaria estate."

this parliamentary debate would be pretty interesting, and if the House of Commons were to pass it then the Monarch would I think be inclined to Assent, and instruct the Crown Ministers to make it so. Basically a forced march of some residents wanting to retain their historical freedom, to the excepted regions 

It would be fun to lead the revolution against it.  I think the saying that applies would be "Hell NO!  We won't go!"