America, we need to talk...

[ItHadToComeToThis]

So, I have recently started to get into the Netflix series Queer Eye, so far I am obsessed. However, what is the deal with you all claiming to be from every other nation on earth than the one you ARE actually from and why is that the first thing you seem so desperate to tell people, even though they never asked?. Why are you so ashamed to just simply be American?.

For example. Early on in the series there is a woman who is asked “I see a lot of crosses on the wall are you guys Catholic”. Her response, “Yes, he’s Polish and I’m Irish”. I didn’t realise that they were sects of Catholicism but whatever, has this lady ever lived in Ireland, has she ever grown up in amongst Irish Celtic culture, has she lived through the Irish troubles, are her grandparents, parents etc first generation immigrants?. Has he ever lived in Poland, can he speak Polish which is one of the hardest languages on earth, does he understand anything about Slavic culture?. Nope, but she can cook one whole single Irish dish though!!.

Another example later on in the series is a lady of Mexican decent who describes herself as a “chica” who is so adamant that “being Mexican is what she is” because “I like low rider cars”. Now, can this lady cook any Mexican food, speak Spanish, know ANYTHING about the culture AT ALL....well she has eaten Tapas that her gran makes for her, that’s about it. She even goes as far as to claim that her fathers desire to give her a normal life “stole” her culture away from her. Like...what....

It is not a phenomena solely found on Queer Eye though. Literally every American I talk to / am friends with will desperately try to convince you that they are “Irish Russian British on my dads side” and “Australian Icelandic French on my mother’s side”.

The cold harsh truth is...no...you are not. You are American, you were born an American, you grew up an American, you live like an American and you will die an American. I would understand if perhaps, you had been born in said country and emigrated with your parents and had lived in and experienced said culture, spoke the language etc etc. Or, if your parents are first generation immigrants and have first hand experiences available to pass down to to teach you the exact specifics of that culture. But, 100 years later when the closest experience you have if a culture is knowing how to cook a few meals and, in the case of the Irish claimers, drinking a Guinness on St Patrick’s day then no...no...no...just stop...stop...it’s okay...it’s okay to just say “You know, I am just an American and that’s okay”. To claim otherwise on the basis that you know how bake a croissant and drink wine by the riverside is not exactly honouring a culture is it.

I mean. I am descended from a JewIsh lady but you don’t see me whipping on a Tichel and dancing up and down the town singing in Yiddish. Why?, because I am not Jewish. I am about as far away from being Jewish as you could possibly get.

America. It’s time to move on from this nonsense. It’s time to just accept your fate. You are American, you have always been American and you will always be American. And...that’s okay. It is OKAY to just...be American. It is okay for your heritage to be a bag of chips, dip and Jerry Springer. You got this

[Garnet Psaltery]

There are countries younger than America with more identification amongst their people.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Garnet Psaltery

[Lyssa Greymoon]

 

[Orwar]

6 minutes ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

The cold harsh truth is...

   . . . "Who gives a damn"? 

[ItHadToComeToThis]

1 minute ago, Orwar said:

   . . . "Who gives a damn"? 

The rest of the world who have to put up with it. Americans are like a caricature of the heritage they claim themselves to be from. It is time to abandon this nonsense and move on from it. Time to claim their rightful heritage and just say “Yo guys, I am American”

[Lindal Kidd]

I do.

I stand with ItHadTo as a proud American...as well as respecting my German/Swedish/Scot heritage.

[Orwar]

Just now, ItHadToComeToThis said:

The rest of the world who have to put up with it. Americans are like a caricature of the heritage they claim themselves to be from. It is time to abandon this nonsense and move on from it. Time to claim their rightful heritage and just say “Yo guys, I am American”

   See, I have a great trick for when people bore me - I just phase out and think about something else, and if the person continues to be boring I just say "Might I introduce you to my wall, perhaps? It seems you have a lot in common, and that you're on roughly the same conversational wavelength. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got better things to do, like watching a bunch of Irish people getting drunk on weird Spanish liquors on YouTube."

[Mollymews]

when we are into homogeneous societies then can see your point

a thing tho, is that even within a natural-born society there are cultural divisions. Like I am a American and also a Texan. I am an American and also a New Yorker. I am British and also Liverpudlian. I am Spanish and also Castilian. etc

American and Texan are not mutually exclusive. They are mutually inclusive. Is not a binary choice. That a person is a Texan and identifies as a Texan, doesn't make them not an American

[Janet Voxel]

I'm not sure, its weird to hyphenate yourself in Canada too.

My husband says he's Puerto Rican, an American territory,  born in Brooklyn and I speak Spanish better than he does. Anytime we're overseas and we're talking to someone and they ask him where he's from he says "I'm Puerto Rican."

He can't explain it either.

[ItHadToComeToThis]

2 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

when we are into homogeneous societies then can see your point

a thing tho, is that even within a natural-born society there are cultural divisions. Like I am a American and also a Texan. I am an American and also a New Yorker. I am British and also Liverpudlian. I am Spanish and also Castilian. etc

American and Texan are not mutually exclusive. They are mutually inclusive. Is not a binary choice. That a person is a Texan and identifies as a Texan, doesn't make them not an American

Yes, but, in that example there is still the shared heritage and experience of being American. You are still immersed in the culture, media, customs, television, attitudes, government of that country. Whilst there may be cultural divides where one state does something different from the other. You would not be a total fish out of water if you moved from one state to the next. However, an American who has never stepped foot in say Russia, who does not know the language, understand the customs  or culture and the closest thing they have to experiencing that culture is some obscure dish their parents cooked for them once a year could not just up and move to that country and integrate effortlessly.

[Lindal Kidd]

While you are correct, Molly, ItHadTo is calling out those U.S. citizens who identify only, or primarily, as something other than "American".

(I should also point out that calling yourself an "American" when speaking to a citizen of any other North or South American country can ALSO be seen as offensive.  They're 'Americans' too.)

[Janet Voxel]

1 minute ago, Lindal Kidd said:

While you are correct, Molly, ItHadTo is calling out those U.S. citizens who identify only, or primarily, as something other than "American".

(I should also point out that calling yourself an "American" when speaking to a citizen of any other North or South American country can ALSO be seen as offensive.  They're 'Americans' too.)

There's also the strong argument that North America and South America aren't two different continents.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

11 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

There's also the strong argument that North America and South America aren't two different continents.

The basically are. there is even water that separates them from each other. just they were named that way. Plus south america is made up of many different nations, unlike north america which has a total of 3.  america.. canada.. and mexico.. which are each considered different and not just american.. only america aka usa is truly considered american by most people.

you dont really hear anyone in south america call themselves american much.

[Janet Voxel]

2 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

The basically are. there is even water that separates them from each other. just they were named that way. Plus south america is made up of many different nations, unlike north america which has a total of 3.  america.. canada.. and mexico.. which are each considered different and not just american.. only america aka usa is truly considered american by most people.

you dont really hear anyone in south america call themselves american much.

They are connected through Central America (which is part of North America) though and you can theoretically drive from Canada all the way to Chile (you'd probably get kidnapped before you made it though)

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

8 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

They are connected through Central America (which is part of North America) though and you can theoretically drive from Canada all the way to Chile (you'd probably get kidnapped before you made it though)

I forget about little central america. it is so small and easy to forget.

[Theresa Tennyson]

55 minutes ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

The rest of the world who have to put up with it. Americans are like a caricature of the heritage they claim themselves to be from. It is time to abandon this nonsense and move on from it. Time to claim their rightful heritage and just say “Yo guys, I am American”

This isn't the first time you've told us how Americans act from your non-American vantage point. What qualifications do you claim?

[Mollymews]

47 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

While you are correct, Molly, ItHadTo is calling out those U.S. citizens who identify only, or primarily, as something other than "American".

(I should also point out that calling yourself an "American" when speaking to a citizen of any other North or South American country can ALSO be seen as offensive.  They're 'Americans' too.)

American in the same sense that OP used the term: America, we need to ...

countries are territories with arbitrary boundaries that can and do change, and contain within their boundaries people of different ethnicities and cultures

over time people within a territory do intermingle and intermarry and over the long time their descendants do develop common blended cultural aspects which can be uniquely identified as being representative of a particular region

before we can say you (everybody else not me) should be an American then I think is on us to define/say what it is, what cultural aspects, do make us American, other than being born within the arbitrary boundaries

[Nika Talaj]

1 hour ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

So, I have recently started to get into the Netflix series Queer Eye, so far I am obsessed. However, what is the deal with you all claiming to be from every other nation on earth than the one you ARE actually from and why is that the first thing you seem so desperate to tell people, even though they never asked?. Why are you so ashamed to just simply be American? ...

You're judging all 330 million US residents by what you are seeing on Queer Eye?   ooookay.   Y'know that many guests on shows like that are chosen for their ability to spontaneously say outrageous things, right?

1 hour ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

Literally every American I talk to / am friends with will desperately try to convince you that they are “Irish Russian British on my dads side” and “Australian Icelandic French on my mother’s side”.

Really?  You seem a little obsessed by this question.  Americans you encounter may be responding to you that way because they know that YOU know that they are from the US, and probably think you're more interested in their heritage when the topic of where they're "from" comes up.  Being from the US is not, after all, so very unique. 

Or maybe you just need new friends.

See, you're not the only person who can be a troll!  Is that comforting?

1 hour ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

Americans are like a caricature of the heritage they claim themselves to be from.

Caricatures?  Excellent, so we're entertaining to you, yes?  Just laugh and move on, then.  Problem solved.

[Mollymews]

1 hour ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

Yes, but, in that example there is still the shared heritage and experience of being American. You are still immersed in the culture, media, customs, television, attitudes, government of that country. Whilst there may be cultural divides where one state does something different from the other. You would not be a total fish out of water if you moved from one state to the next.

what I be interested in is hearing what you think American culture and customs are ?

you have defined what you think it isn't. Like the lady who refers to herself as chica. In your view this is unamerican. Is a lot easier to say what we think is unamerican when a person speaks in a language other than english

[Pixie Kobichenko]

Let me preface with saying that maybe I am being naive & missing a joke- but I read the OP as the person was annoyed.

That out of the way- why is it an issue that some Americans pride themselves on the history of their family, and some cling to their ancestry?

Oklahoma, a microcosm- I grew up in the OKC area.

29th & May is predominantly Hispanic, with flags from Latino countries flying.

The NE side, around 23rd & MLK is predominantly black.The Asian area is just west of the state Capitol.

Yukon, a west side OKC suburb is rooted in Czech immigrants  historically.Corn in the west part of the state was settled by Germans.  There are several Mennonite communities, with German roots. 

One of my fellow mom-friends is intensely proud of her Scottish heritage & there was a lot of Indo-Aryan families in my school growing up.  My childhood best friend’s family was part of the air-lift from Siagon.  

I could keep going, just about areas I have first hand familiarity with.  But in each of these examples there are folks proud of their roots. They still identify with where *they* came from, while being American as well.

For me, it’s the history, reaching back to something that can’t be found here.  My mother will tell anyone who will sit still that her mother’s family founded the town of Shamrock, Texas.  My stepmother loved genealogy, she could trace my dad’s family back thru Massachusetts to English Puritans & her father published a book that can guide anyone who wants to trace their lineage back to biblical figures.  

& yes, Americans cook black eyed peas on New Years, we make corned beef in March, Mardi Gras, Cinco de Mayo, St. Patrick’s Day.  Hell, Halloween, that wicked day to pretend we’re ghosts to blend in with the dead & then go about demanding candy, I have been told is quintessentially American in practice, but comes from traditions brought from Europe.  I’m starting to sound silly.

But so is the ignorant, insulting statement that we Americans ought just sit on our sofas, gorge on our snacks & watch Jerry Springer. We are a melting pot.  A nation of immigrants & I think in light of the things happening in our streets- a movement to treat others better, such a decisive statement doesn’t help.

Why is it bad to honor our roots?

 

afterthought edit- by your reasoning, there ought not be any efforts towards preservation of Native American languages, which are disappearing as each generation dies.  With your logic, they’re all Americans now by golly, & need to let that heritage go. More silliness, I know.  https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/2009/11/15/preserving-native-americas-vanishing-languages/

Edited July 24, 2020 by Pixie Kobichenko

[Lindal Kidd]

No one is saying people should discard their heritage.  Since all of us (even the Native Americans!) came here from Somewhere Else, there IS no uniquely "American" culture.  It's ALL imported.  And we should all remember, and be proud of the good parts, of our roots.

But at the same time, as "Americans" we also should adhere to and uphold the ideals that led us, or our ancestors, here.  The idea of freedom, of government of, by, and for the people.  The idea of the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".  The one about "all men are created equal".  The idea of helping our neighbors.  The idea that this is still a "land of opportunity" for those willing to work for it.  The ideals of civic virtue, and civic responsibility.  We have not always lived up to all that, individually or collectively...but that does not make striving to live up to our ideals irrelevant.

[ChinRey]

Looking at this from the other side.

I sometimes encounter "Super-Norwegians" - Americans who are sooo proudof their Norwegian roots and soo keen on preserving their Norwegian heritage and culture. Only of course, their perception of "Norwegian" is very simplified and glorified and two centuries out of date. It's very flattering to a Norwegian of course but at the same time it's also very embarrasing. The clueless prodigal son who returned "home" after many years in Americay used to be a standard character in Norwegian comedy skits and always brought a good deal of laughter. Good-natured laughter that is but still definitely splastick comedy material.

I have some Irish friends who have told me they have similar mixed feelings about American "Super-Irish" and I suppose it's the same all over the world.

I don't think there is a textbook answer. I believe everybody should honor their roots and be proud of them, but remember, you are not your ancestors and they are not you.

Edited July 24, 2020 by ChinRey

[Pixie Kobichenko]

27 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

No one is saying people should discard their heritage.

That is literally exactly what the OP means.  You are American.  Move on. & then gets snarky in her parting shot: Embrace Jerry Springer & your bag of chips.

 

3 hours ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

what is the deal with you all claiming to be from every other nation on earth than the one you ARE actually from and why is that the first thing you seem so desperate to tell people, even though they never asked?. Why are you so ashamed to just simply be American?.

 

3 hours ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

Literally every American I talk to / am friends with will desperately try to convince you that they are “Irish Russian British on my dads side” and “Australian Icelandic French on my mother’s side”.

The cold harsh truth is...no...you are not. You are American, you were born an American, you grew up an American, you live like an American and you will die an American.

 

3 hours ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

America. It’s time to move on from this nonsense. It’s time to just accept your fate. You are American, you have always been American and you will always be American. And...that’s okay. It is OKAY to just...be American. It is okay for your heritage to be a bag of chips, dip and Jerry Springer. You got this

 

[ChinRey]

2 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

you can theoretically drive from Canada all the way to Chile

You can't actually. There are no roads across the Darién Gap.

Edited July 24, 2020 by ChinRey

[ItHadToComeToThis]

1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

what I be interested in is hearing what you think American culture and customs are ?

you have defined what you think it isn't. Like the lady who refers to herself as chica. In your view this is unamerican. Is a lot easier to say what we think is unamerican when a person speaks in a language other than english

Americans to me are a fiercely proud group of people who believe in the constitution and all the rights that it grants them, sharing a commitment to a set of values or an idea on which their country was founded and are willing to fight for their rights by whatever means necessary.

Culture is a bit harder to define but before we try to define it, I should point out that I am in no way against anyone celebrating their heritage, that was not the point of my original post. My post was more querying those Americans who were born in America, lived in America, their parents, grandparents and great grandparents were born in America. Yet, will tell you just how Irish, Polish, Scottish, French, German, Russian they are, yet, do not know the first thing really about that culture. Celebrating your heritage is one thing, I live on an island in the UK and technically I am also descended from the Celts and I do find the history, myths and culture of the Celtic people is pretty fascinating. But, I am not a celt. American culture is a mix of a lot of different things that were brought over by the descendants of modern day Americans, albeit a very westernised version of. However, there is a difference between celebrating your heritage and actually being a part of that culture.

For example, someone claims that they are French. You enquire further, how are you French etc. They respond "Well, when I was younger my mother taught me a little French and each Sunday we used to bake Croissants and when I was younger she read me French fairy tails". That right there is the standard response from most of the Americans that I speak to that make these kinds of claims. That is like, the absolute tip of the iceberg of culture, history, customs and lifestyle that goes into actually being French. They haven't actually lived, worked, educated in France and immersed themselves in that culture to truly understand what it means to be French. It's just a very very very distant lineage that they are desperately clinging to as if it somehow defines them as a person. When in reality it comes across more like a disservice to that culture as they are claiming expertise over something they know very little about.

Being proud of your heritage is fine. I think it's neat that I am descended from a jew and the tanned skin has carried down to me. I think it's neat that I have Celtic in me as well as the people of this island being descended from viking invaders that took over the island 1000 years ago. But, I am really none of those things at all as I have never lived as a viking, practiced as a jew or was born a celt.

As for the lady who defined herself as a chica. I wasn't saying that she wasn't American. What I was saying is that she was proudly claiming herself to be a Mexican and acted as if that was her total identity. Yet, when probed further knew almost nothing about the culture, couldn't speak the language and based her entire idea of being Mexican on low rider cars and tacos.