America, we need to talk...

[ItHadToComeToThis]

11 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

That is literally exactly what the OP means.  You are American.  Move on. & then gets snarky in her parting shot: Embrace Jerry Springer & your bag of chips.

That last part about the chips, dip and jerry springer was a joke. I obviously know that THAT is not the sum of American culture. And if you read above I am in no way against anyone celebrating their heritage. We ALL do that all over the earth. My post above further clarifies things

[Rhun DeCuir]

Perhaps it is because so many see American culture as "chips, dip and Jerry Springer" that many Americans embrace their ancestors' heritage.  

And in actuality, there is no such thing as one "American Culture."  We are a nation of many different cultures: ancestral and regional.  We may be a melting pot, but we enjoy our swirls of flavor, color, and texture.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Rhun DeCuir
Typo

[Zzevir]

Thank you for this topic I have this song and I waited for the perfect place. 

 

[Jordyn McGregor]

Ugh I saw the perfect response to this in a youtube comment section and given the amount of youtubes I watch, of course I cannot find it.

It goes along the lines of someone saying he is Irish-American because his great grandparents came to America from Ireland.  The response to him was no, your great grandparents were Irish-American.  You are American.

I get it's about pride in your heritage, where your roots come from.  And honestly, I wouldn't want to admit to being American right now either. 

And I'm British.  Born and raised, and now exported.

[Zzevir]

4 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Ugh I saw the perfect response to this in a youtube comment section and given the amount of youtubes I watch, of course I cannot find it.

It goes along the lines of someone saying he is Irish-American because his great grandparents came to America from Ireland.  The response to him was no, your great grandparents were Irish-American.  You are American.

I get it's about pride in your heritage, where your roots come from.  And honestly, I wouldn't want to admit to being American right now either. 

And I'm British.  Born and raised, and now exported.

They took you to Australia? They still doing that? What is your crime? 

[Jordyn McGregor]

16 minutes ago, Zzevir said:

They took you to Australia? They still doing that? What is your crime? 

I have never been to Australia.  Too many things can kill you there, not to mention its full of Australians 😜

[Akane Nacht]

1 hour ago, Lindal Kidd said:

No one is saying people should discard their heritage.  Since all of us (even the Native Americans!) came here from Somewhere Else, there IS no uniquely "American" culture.  It's ALL imported.  And we should all remember, and be proud of the good parts, of our roots.

But at the same time, as "Americans" we also should adhere to and uphold the ideals that led us, or our ancestors, here.  The idea of freedom, of government of, by, and for the people.  The idea of the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".  The one about "all men are created equal".  The idea of helping our neighbors.  The idea that this is still a "land of opportunity" for those willing to work for it.  The ideals of civic virtue, and civic responsibility.  We have not always lived up to all that, individually or collectively...but that does not make striving to live up to our ideals irrelevant.

I agree. In countries formed by immigrant populations, it is our shared ideals and common vision for the future that bind us. I'm not particularly bothered by people wanting to highlight their ancestry, I just see that as largely irrelevant to supporting a nation's ideals.

Apart from those, there is a common culture that comes from living side by side for years, for example, helping a neighbour, sharing food, enjoying sports and music together, complaining about the weather... over time our similar interests and positive interactions form a new bond.  

[Mollymews]

1 hour ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

Americans to me are a fiercely proud group of people who believe in the constitution and all the rights that it grants them

i put this into a context of what where I live we call whakapapa (ancestral lineage/heritage)

a person is of say french descent. At some time in the past their ancestors migrated to Louisiana. Then the land was sold to the USA. Or a person was of say mexican descent and their ancestors lived in what is now Arizona. Then the land was ceded to the USA as a spoil of war on conclusion of the US-Mexico war

down the years the descendants get assimilated into the ever-increasing wider population of non-french and non-mexican people

what these descendants often do is hold on to their ancestors. The more they get assimilated generationally, the more they hold on. Not everyone, but enough so that it is observable by other people. They hold on even when thru assimilation they lose their ability to speak the language of their ancestors, and lose the understanding to fully observe the customs and practices of their ancestors

migrants from other countries do this also. It happens where I live. People come here, same as they do the USA, from all over the world

is normal behaviour when this happens, is not abnormal. And is best when we see it as normal

moving on to what you wrote (and I have quoted) about subscribing to a belief in the US Constitution, and the rights for which it stands, being a pre-requisite to be an American. I agree that this is true as this belief is the bedrock of US society

i suggest that next time you have a conversation with a person not the same as yourself then ask them if they believe in the US Constitution and the rights encoded

if they do then they I would say that they are an American, no matter what else they might do or say. If they do not then I would say that they are unamerican. And in the unamerican case it doesn't matter what ancestry or heritage they identify with or what language they speak including english

we can get deeper into this, which is a whole topic in itself. The reversion to heriditary type when the societal rights which bind us together, are not observed (a betrayal) by those who purport to lead us. A reversion to heriditary type which is driven by cynicism born of that betrayal. Is not enough for us as ordinary people to live according to the encodings that govern us as a society, our leaders must also

[Mercedes Avon]

I am kind of embarrassed to be American right now to be honest.

[ChinRey]

1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

i suggest that next time you have a conversation with a person not the same as yourself then ask them if they believe in the US Constitution and the rights encoded

if they do then they I would say that they are an American, no matter what else they might do or say. If they do not then I would say that they are unamerican. And in the unamerican case it doesn't matter what ancestry or heritage they identify with or what language they speak including english

I can't find any link to it right now but a US newspaper once did a test. They went out on the street with a rather longish political manifesto trying to get people to sign it. Some actually did but most refused and many got quite angry when presented with this "unamerican socialistic nonsense" (or something like that). Only one person recognised it as the American Consitution.

Me, I don't believe it's possible to define a people or a culture through any kind of political or religious ideology or manifesto or such. It goes much, much deeper than that.

Edited July 24, 2020 by ChinRey

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

Really its just people being proud of their ancestral heritage, which is their right. Those who take offense over them doing it need to look at themselves first before judging them for what they are doing.

There is nothing wrong with claiming your ancestral heritage at all. In todays world where it is so much easier to find out where you came from a lot of people are celebrating that part of who they are. For yes it is an important part of who they are, their ancestors impacted their life in several ways with the choices they made while they were alive.

Its not that they are refusing their american heritage or culture its just they are celebrating their culture and heritage from where their family line originally came from. Anyone that has a problem with people doing that well.. That is a major YOU problem and not a them problem.

[FairreLilette]

7 hours ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

Why are you so ashamed to just simply be American?.

I am not ashamed to be just simply American.  Overseas or abroad if I'm visiting England for example and someone asked me "where are you from?", I'd say "America, I live in California."

We are a melting pot here of immigrants.  Some are immigrants now and their children are 1st Gen American.  Many of us lose our language because the public schools are English only.  

My Mom did not leave Polish town until she married my Dad and they moved to California.  Many of our parents grew up in specific parts of town whether Polish town, Irish town, Italian town, and so on.  These towns were all separated.  And, we, as a melting pot of Americans, like to talk about how we came to live here and many of us, born here.  I have relatives also in Quebec.  I could immigrate to Quebec if I wanted to.  Some of us have relatives in other countries.  

My Mother and Father were both 1st Generation American.  

Part of it is what my Polish family endured, immigrating (fleeing) from Poland in World War I.  

When I went to Ellis Island, I found my Grandmother's name engraved on one of the walls.  It was a spine tingling experience.  I felt her presence there as a young child.   Ellis Island is now closed but Ellis Island is the place most people immigrated through in New York and my grandmother's name is engraved on the wall there.  

I grew up on a lot of Polish food; it is still a family favorite.  

Here are some pictures of what the walls of Ellis Island look like (that is not a picture of my finger, I'm using it as an example):    However, I wouldn't let it bother you.  Many people for official reasons are said to be such and such and are of such and such parents and/or heritage.  It's part of our own biography.    But, like I said, if I were overseas or out of my country, I'd be simply American or from California.  

Edited July 24, 2020 by FairreLilette

[elise Voxel]

I wonder if these people who say they're from other countries can fluently understand the language of said country, talk about the political situation there or point to close friends and family living there.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

2 minutes ago, SassySam87 said:

I wonder if these people who say they're from other countries can fluently understand the language of said country, talk about the political situation there or point to close friends and family living there.

that doesn't really matter. that is not needed to celebrate or be proud of your heritage from that part of the world. you dont have to speak the langue fluently or know ever detail of what is going on in that country at the current time, nor do they have to have friends or family currently living there to claim their ancestral heritage from there and be proud enough about it to mention that they are from there too.

[Alwin Alcott]

2 minutes ago, SassySam87 said:

I wonder if these people who say they're from other countries can fluently understand the language of said country, talk about the political situation there or point to close friends and family living there.

most have no single clue or experience about those things. ( some mentioned it already)

But it's not the only thing others think is..."special" "extraordinary" or even "weird" about americans .. many things would be unacceptable in the rest of the world.

[Zzevir]

3 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I have never been to Australia.  Too many things can kill you there, not to mention its full of Australians 😜

Of course you wasn't. Australia don't exist. It's just a big cover up a hoax. 

[elise Voxel]

Just now, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

that doesn't really matter. that is not needed to celebrate or be proud of your heritage from that part of the world. you dont have to speak the langue fluently or know ever detail of what is going on in that country at the current time, nor do they have to have friends or family currently living there to claim their ancestral heritage from there and be proud enough about it to mention that they are from there too.

I never said you couldn't claim ancestral heritage. As someone who's 100% one ethnicity, I find it really cool that Americans and other people can trace their roots back to so many different countries.

But to be 'from' there? Shouldn't you have a little more claim to say that you are of that nationality when it's not that of your passport?

[Zzevir]

2 hours ago, Mercedes Avon said:

I am kind of embarrassed to be American right now to be honest.

You can claim that you are a Piréz we are always recruiting. 

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

Just now, SassySam87 said:

I never said you couldn't claim ancestral heritage. As someone who's 100% one ethnicity, I find it really cool that Americans and other people can trace their roots back to so many different countries.

But to be 'from' there? Shouldn't you have a little more claim to say that you are of that nationality when it's not that of your passport?

not really, all you need is some proof that some part of your family is or was from there at one point in time. you dont really need to know the langue or anything else beyond that.

there are a lot of people that are part native american and claim it yet have no real knowledge of their tribal nation other then that they are part of it.

[elise Voxel]

4 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

not really, all you need is some proof that some part of your family is or was from there at one point in time. you dont really need to know the langue or anything else beyond that.

there are a lot of people that are part native american and claim it yet have no real knowledge of their tribal nation other then that they are part of it.

Then again, Native American is ancestry (for those who are part native), not claiming an entirely different nationality. Although I wouldn't know how everything works there, I'm not American.

Edited July 24, 2020 by SassySam87

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

11 minutes ago, Zzevir said:

Of course you wasn't. Australia don't exist. It's just a big cover up a hoax. 

ok flat earther..

[Tari Landar]

First off....

"America", doesn't "need to talk" to you, about much of anything, because America is far more than even you seem to understand it as being. So, might wanna get that broad brush back in the package from whence you ripped it before understanding how best to wield it. You're not an expert on Americans any more than we're experts on anyone else. 

This isn't an "American" only thing, by the way. I talk, interact and work with people all over the globe, on a daily basis, and people from ALL over the world will tell you their heritage along with their current place of residence. 

Over a billion people are Americans, if by the term American you simply mean "from the Americas" (because by definition, that's actually what it means, a person born or living in one of the Americas). But within those over a billion people, you also have other things by which humans choose to define themselves, including their heritage. No person living today can tell you the entirety of their heritage...no person. Because as humans evolve, so does our heritage. Being able to speak the language, or discuss some of the customs is not the entirety or even majority, of a heritage. Humans have come a lot further than that since our creation(regardless of one's opinion on how we came to be...we've still come a very long way). 

People being proud of their heritage, regardless of how much YOU might understand their heritage, is not a bad thing. If people want to identify themselves using their heritage, let them. Exactly what harm is it doing to you, to the point that you need to write a judgmental novel about how irritating it is. 

I write novels here all the time, I'm pretty damn good at drawing what should take a couple of sentences out, until a multitude of paragraphs, but even I can't pull off that drivel.

In this day and age, when we, as a species, the human species, are asking that others not judge us based on how we define ourselves....why is a topic like this even okay? Why are so many of you okay with someone saying "I don't like the way you're defining yourself, you should just stop"-because that's exactly how the OP and far too many for my liking of the responses sound....judgmental as all get out, with no cause I might add.

Why is it okay for YOU(general you) to define how others get to define themselves? Does that not seem odd to some of you? That you're going along with someone who is saying "if you don't know every aspect of your heritage, you can't claim it". I am willing to bet the OP (again, as I have pointed this out once already) along with everyone else reading, can't actually describe the entirety of their heritage either. So....best not claim any of it, right?

Good grief man. I've run across this topic far too much in the last few years. It gets tiring seeing people say this about "Americans"(and what they really mean is people from the US, not actually Americans...because clearly they don't know the definition of the word) constantly. Does it harm your future progeny for someone to be proud that they are both American and.....insert whatever...? No, it really doesn't harm ANYONE.

I am a heinz 57 baby and I am quite proud to be so. A true mutt as they often say, because my heritage spans the globe. I will gladly tell anyone and everyone that I am not only American, but also, if I feel the need arises (such as if I am asked), any other aspect of my heritage. The examples given are ridiculous at best. No one is telling YOU to claim parts of your heritage you don't want to. You're literally telling other people not to claim theirs because it bothers you......weird af, if you ask me. 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Tari Landar

[Lindal Kidd]

While Tari has some good points, I think that ItHadTo also had a good one.  Too often today, we Americans are unwilling to accept our citizenship, and therefore identify ourselves as something else.  While they have every right to do so, I think it illustrates the increased divisiveness in our country...and I don't think that is a good thing at all.

[Janet Voxel]

I didn't think this would turn into what it did. It seemed like a little good natured ribbing to me.

[FairreLilette]

14 minutes ago, SassySam87 said:

But to be 'from' there? Shouldn't you have a little more claim to say that you are of that nationality when it's not that of your passport?

The only people in America I've met are who say they "are from there" are immigrants who have not fully immigrated yet and because they are not an American citizen yet.

I say my ancestors were from Poland and France.  I've never said "I'm from there", so some of this sounds weird to me because I've never heard it unless it's a new immigrant.    

I met immigrants all the time who are immigrants and they are "from there"...somewhere else...new immigrants, many don't even speak hardly any English yet.  There used to be free English learning classes but those are few and far between now-a-days.  You pretty much have to pay for your own English lessons.  

In California, we have government documents in at least 25 languages here.  So, a lot of people are home sick and they are new immigrants and still miss their homeland and say they are "from there"...somewhere else.