Drakonadrgora Darkfold Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Just now, nlbrn4 said: I can't quote for some reason. heritage is the keyword, except people are saying they can be called german without being to germany. "it doesn't matter what anyone likes or not" nope, I'm not going to forcefully stop people from falsely identifying themselves but this is a discussion on whether i agree with that or not. it really doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, those other people dont have to care if you agree or like it or not. its not false identification at all. you can be called what ever your heritage is even if you never have been to that country even once or even know any of the langue at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollymews Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 2 hours ago, ChinRey said: I can't find any link to it right now but a US newspaper once did a test. They went out on the street with a rather longish political manifesto trying to get people to sign it. Some actually did but most refused and many got quite angry when presented with this "unamerican socialistic nonsense" (or something like that). Only one person recognised it as the American Consitution. Me, I don't believe it's possible to define a people or a culture through any kind of political or religious ideology or manifesto or such. It goes much, much deeper than that. yes your are right, it does go deeper. Is just that ItHasToComeToThis has suggested that the US Constitution is a starting point. Which I agree with so the similar question. Beyond being born in the USA and subscribing to a belief in the US Constitution then what are the customs and values that uniquely define Americans as separate from other peoples found elsewhere in the world ? or is that beyond these two things, what we might be talking about is patriotism, the next step beyond ? Which in the USA case is not just a belief in the Constitution, patriotism calls for allegiance to the Constitution. And if this is true then what is beyond this to help answer the similar question 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akane Nacht Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said: well in this thread it seems to be more about bloodlines. it smells like an anti american topic, where someone is just upset that someone claimed to be something other then american and they think its just another american stealing someone elses culture again. toward the marriage any children had by you and that other person would be able to claim german heritage at that point because of the bloodlines from the other parent. I was curious as affiliation is used for criteria in some other countries, like the PIO card that used to be offered for India. Definitions vary 🙂 Perhaps someone who grew up in a particular culture identifies more with it than whatever their bloodline is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 I noticed this weird american behavior early on, when I started hanging around some german themed parts of reddit. And I say american behavior, because its almost exclusivly shown by them. Often they don't even seem to be aware of this trait, before they encounter people from elsewhere, who are slightly bewildered by their widespread obsession to dig out their family tree... and then claim to own the identity of this great-great-great grandfather, who immigrated to the US in the 18th/19th century. And this is not an overstatement, there are frequently people who think its normal to identitfy with a country they have no connection to, because some distant ancestor lived on land that would later become todays Germany (or maybe not...). "Being german" is just a fancy decoration to them. They would get a culture shock, if they ever had to live here. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Kobichenko Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 44 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said: some of it may have already been there, but he definitely made it worse It’s not worse. It’s always been here, but largely ignored & covered up. Trump has somehow managed thru his clear personality disorder normalized open bigotry & hatred. Now it’s on display & it’s absolutely frightening how many of my fellow Americans excuse it, “whatabotso&so” defend it & embrace it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalates Urriah Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 (edited) Reading through these pages it is clear everyone here is listening to the corporate media. Once you get away to other sources not speaking from the same sheet of talking points you find a divergence of opinion and a large number of facts that most here will never have heard about. As one sifts through the evidence supporting diverse opinions you get a hint of what is actually going on, who is lying, and who is on the side of the people. But, if you hear no diverse thought how will you know what to check to know who is lying? Have you been conditioned to the point that first paragraph triggers you? Trump is said to be a racist. But how many know Trump is the one that filed the lawsuit to desegregate the Florida country clubs to allow Jews and Blacks into the clubs? Was it a racist that provided his plane to Nelson Mandela when he was trying to end apartheid? When Jessie Jackson was trying to break down racism in New York City's power structure and could not find anyone to rent him office space who did he end up getting office space from? If you didn't know these three things about Trump, ask yourself why? Let's see who tries to spin this and who actually digs for the facts. If you really want to take a walk on wild side and take the red pill... run down the video trump a history of equality diversity and inclusion and fact check it. Don't depend on a website or the news media to do it for you. Actually look the facts up. Edited July 24, 2020 by Nalates Urriah 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakonadrgora Darkfold Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 At the end of the day it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks or likes about what someone else claims to be or not. It is up to that person and only that person to decide. Not anyone else at all. If the other person doesn't like it.. tough they dont really have to care about that at all. It is not that other persons choice to tell them they are wrong or they cant claim that at all. Even if that person might want to think it is. It really isnt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakonadrgora Darkfold Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said: It’s not worse. It’s always been here, but largely ignored & covered up. Trump has somehow managed thru his clear personality disorder normalized open bigotry & hatred. Now it’s on display & it’s absolutely frightening how many of my fellow Americans excuse it, “whatabotso&so” defend it & embrace it. by your own words he made it worse by normalizing some things that were not done so before. so yes he did make some things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 It's getting spicy up in here. 7 pages by the morning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakonadrgora Darkfold Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Just now, Janet Voxel said: It's getting spicy up in here. 7 pages by the morning? maybe more!! 10+ cant stop now!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said: Reading through these pages it is clear everyone here is listening to the corporate media. Once you get away to other sources not speaking from the same sheet of talking points you find a divergence of opinion and a large number of facts that most here will never have heard about. As one sifts through the evidence supporting diverse opinions you get a hint of what is actually going on, who is lying, and who is on the side of the people. But, if you hear no diverse thought how will you know what to check to know who is lying? Have you been conditioned to the point that first paragraph triggers you? Trump is said to be a racist. But how many know Trump is the one that filed the lawsuit to desegregate the Florida country clubs to allow Jews and Blacks into the clubs? Was it a racist that provided his plane to Nelson Mandela when he was trying to end apartheid? When Jessie Jackson was trying to break down racism in New York City's power structure and could not find anyone to rent him office space who did he end up getting office space from? If you didn't know these three things about Trump, ask yourself why? Let's see who tries to spin this and who actually digs for the facts. You do know you can be racist and do things that aren't racist don't you? 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakonadrgora Darkfold Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said: You do know you can be racist and do things that aren't racist don't you? correct.. you dont have to just do racist things to be a racist.. and by not doing racist things does not make you magically a non-racist if you are one. a few good deeds in the past doesnt wash away what he has done now. Edited July 24, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said: correct.. you dont have to just do racist things to be a racist.. and by not doing racist things does not make you magically a non-racist if you are one. So....yeah...10+ pages. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said: At the end of the day it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks or likes about what someone else claims to be or not. It is up to that person and only that person to decide. Not anyone else at all. If the other person doesn't like it.. tough they dont really have to care about that at all. It is not that other persons choice to tell them they are wrong or they cant claim that at all. Even if that person might want to think it is. It really isnt. Of course one can decide, that what others say does not matter. This is true for any topic. But that doesn't make them right, just because they decided anyone else isn't relevant. And if anyone can freely pick what type of origin they want to staple on their american one, why not go straight to the origin and claim Africa? After all, our earliest ancestors came from there. What, thats suddenly too far? At what point does the "fraction of shared DNA" become too little to claim whatever identity you fancy at the moment? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Kobichenko Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said: by your own words he made it worse by normalizing some things that were not done so before. so yes he did make some things The racists aren’t growing in numbers. They’ve just become lax in hiding it. His language & actions has somehow normalized bigotry & they are outing themselves. The phone calls to police to report black families at the pool, black delivery drivers trying to do their jobs, black folks accosted in their neighborhoods by uppity pearl clutching racists. thanks to cell phones, live streaming & platforms like Twitter these types of acts can be exposed, the offender prosecuted, &/or publicly shamed, having their personal business impacted, or fired from a job. The almighty dollar wields a heavy sword. And can deal a good lesson. -act a fool & suffer the financial repercussions. Sometimes that’s the only thing that makes a change. These things have always happened. This is a dark moment in history that hopefully will lead to a better, brighter tomorrow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzevir Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 I think it's time to make the bets when this topic will be closed. I say before noon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItHadToComeToThis Posted July 24, 2020 Author Share Posted July 24, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said: At the end of the day it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks or likes about what someone else claims to be or not. It is up to that person and only that person to decide. Not anyone else at all. If the other person doesn't like it.. tough they dont really have to care about that at all. It is not that other persons choice to tell them they are wrong or they cant claim that at all. Even if that person might want to think it is. It really isnt. Again. I am not saying that people can't honour their heritage, research their family tree or even claim a descendancy from said specific country. That is all fine and well. If you want to dress up in lederhosen once a year, put your hair in pig tails and dance round a campsite drinking beer and eating bockwurst celebrating your German heritage then by all means go for it. But, unless you know the political, social, historical aspects of the country, that you would gain from having actually lived there for an extended period, as well as all the other experiences of living in that country then you can't honestly say that you are a German because you have never experienced life as a German. By all means you could say "My great great great grandfather came from Germany in 1843 with nothing but a straw hat and a pan to find gold" and be proud of that, but, that doesn't make you "A German" that makes you "Descended" or "Part" German. Someone born in 2004 would probably be looking at themselves in reality as like 1/512th German. My original query though was more....why Edited July 24, 2020 by ItHadToComeToThis 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, ItHadToComeToThis said: Again. I am not saying that people can't honour their heritage, research their family tree or even claim a descendancy from said specific country. That is all fine and well. If you want to dress up in lederhosen once a year, put your hair in pig tails and dance round a campsite drinking beer and eating bockwurst celebrating your German heritage then by all means go for it. But, unless you know the political, social, historical aspects of the country, that you would gain from having actually lived there for an extended period, as well as all the other experiences of living in that country then you can't honestly say that you are a German because you have never experienced life as a German. By all means you could say "My great great great grandfather came from German in 1843 with nothing but a straw hat a pan to find gold" and be proud of that, but, that doesn't make you "A German" that makes you "Descended" or "Part" German. Someone born in 2004 would probably be looking at themselves in reality as like 1/512th German. My original query though was more....why When someone from the US says they are "----------" - American, they mean they are of that decent. Not that they claim dual citizen ship. Nor are they saying "No no, I'm German." For you to assume that is what they mean is very obtuse. My grandparents both came here from England. My gran was half english half scottish, my grandad was half english and half irish. None of their descendants say they are english-american, irish-american or any other combination. We are American. I am part English, Irish, Scot and Norse but all American. And yes I am damn proud of it. None of my ancestors ever owned a slave. One of them signed the Declaration of Independence. My Grandad brought the family tree with him when he came here. It goes back over 500 years. We have recently begun scanning it and will distribute it to the family when its done, so it can be filled in by future generations. We take people at face value. Your actions define how you will be treated, not your skin color. Every nation has committed atrocities. For some reason its become ok to attack America for theirs but ignore any other countries. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akane Nacht Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 47 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said: you dont have to just do racist things to be a racist.. I just care about the doing part. someone can think the moon is made of green cheese if they want, so long as they don't try to make me eat it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 9 hours ago, Janet Voxel said: They are connected through Central America (which is part of North America) though and you can theoretically drive from Canada all the way to Chile (you'd probably get kidnapped before you made it though) You can theoretically drive from Inverness, Scotland to Hong Kong, China. That doesn't make them on the same continent either. Hell, you could drive from Inverness, Scotland to Hong Kong, China to Cape Town South Africa and hit 3 continents. Just because you can drive somewhere doesn't make it the same continent. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 43 minutes ago, ItHadToComeToThis said: My original query though was more....why yes but the point is; you'r not allowed to question USA things, they have all rights to question the world, and force their ideas allover the globe, if you do other way you'll end with the mind your business attitude, insulting, discrimitation or even the racism card. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chassie Rowley Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 15 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said: You can theoretically drive from Inverness, Scotland to Hong Kong, China. That doesn't make them on the same continent either. Hell, you could drive from Inverness, Scotland to Hong Kong, China to Cape Town South Africa and hit 3 continents. Just because you can drive somewhere doesn't make it the same continent. For what it's worth, there have been discussions of a bridge or tunnel, connecting Russia with Alaska. This could enable one to drive from London to Los Angeles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akane Nacht Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said: yes but the point is; you'r not allowed to question USA things, they have all rights to question the world, and force their ideas allover the globe, if you do other way you'll end with the mind your business attitude, insulting, discrimitation or even the racism card. It does not please me to agree with this, but I have experienced it on these forums, by people who claim to be tolerant. They've not succeeded in chasing me off tho 😁 Edited July 24, 2020 by Akane Nacht typoh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said: yes but the point is; you'r not allowed to question USA things, they have all rights to question the world, and force their ideas allover the globe, if you do other way you'll end with the mind your business attitude, insulting, discrimitation or even the racism card. You can question all you want, we only get offended when you paint with such a broad brush that you include everyone in the country. ETA.. like the OP did. Edited July 24, 2020 by Drake1 Nightfire 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said: do you have german ancestors? if so then yes you can claim to be part german.. that is all it takes. you dont have to be a full blooded born german before you can claim to be german. you dont even have to know german or even been to germany at all. you dont even need current friends or relatives living in germany either. 3 hours ago, nlbrn4 said: I speak chinese, if i took a dna test it would probably show i'm 100% chinese, i eat chinese food everyday for breakfast, lunch and dinner but I've don't say i'm chinese. Just face it people, you're american and nothing else. just because your great great grandpa was german doesn't mean you have any claim to identifying as german. Can't wait for all the triggered replies. 3 hours ago, nlbrn4 said: so by all you've just said, i can proudly call myself german despite never visiting there, not knowing a single german, not speaking german. Germany is laughing at anyone who thinks they can get away with this. Face it, not every country is like america where you can be american with a snap of your fingers. Explain to us how someone saying "You can be X if you have Y" means "Well, that means I can can say I'm X [even though I don't have Y.]" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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