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57 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I love the smokey's, Especially in the morning..

When you are up in the mountains in the morning and in a spot where you can see for miles, It's easy to see why they are called The Smokey's..

The tops of the mountains look like Islands for miles in an ocean of dense clouds.. It looks like something right out of a fantasy world..

Then when you are down below and looking up, the clouds can fool you into thinking you are seeing the tops of the mountains, until you look a little higher and see it was just the clouds showing the halfway point.. I love when the mountains used to fool me like that when I first seen them..

I love those kinds of surprises of feeling like an ant to natures awesomeness..

One of the nicest things about the Cove is you can keep vehicles out quite easily. There's only one road in and out. Boom.

cades-cove-campground.jpg

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2 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Reminds me of Cades Cove. I have some 35mm shots of it still from back in the early 90s. If I ever get around to scanning them I'll share them with you.

Ever since visiting the Cove, I've always wished I had the money to buy it so I could live there. 

But.

It's a national park and I don't want to "begrudge" others the beauty and tranquility of the place.

https://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/cadescove.htm

If you haven't been and can ever get there, go! It is more than worth the visit, especially if you can go during the off season (late fall through early spring).

Edit: We were there during the winter right after Christmas in 92, then again in April of 93.

We were there this past october, leaves were just starting to change so gorgeous. Saw a mama bear with her cubs. I love it there. 

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2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I have never seen ONE post of yours using the idea that there were MORE Republicans than Democrats dissing masks. Is this you with a bad memory or attempting to gaslight the rest of us with what you have or have not stated in past?

The fact that I pointed out the delusional and ridiculous reasons those on the 'right' were not wearing masks did not mean I believed ANYONE on the 'left' was not at fault for mask non-compliance -- it only meant I was choosing to focus at that time on those whose excuses for not wearing masks was comical and delusional and worthy of a slap-down, as well as the group I found much more responsible for the spread of Covid (because greater numbers of Republicans eschewed wearing masks in the earlier days due to what amounted to a religious worship of 'independence', not to mention your bizarre notions of masks actually causing Covid or heart problems).

What would be the point of interjecting, as I register my disgust for the crazies who used bizarre reasons for mask non-compliance, to say "oh and I find MORE Republicans than Democrats are not mask compliant, but that does not mean NO Democrats did not wear masks appropriately" -- that was not what the discussion was about for crying out loud -- the discussion was about the crazies who made non-mask wearing into some kind of macho or religious experience. 

As a typical conservative, you tend to think in absolutes, in black and white/binary ways (proven by much scientific testing on brain function, btw). Here we see you engaging in binary thinking again AS PART OF YOUR DEFENSE claiming that *I* was being partisan by choosing to discuss what was pertinent to me or the discussion at that time -- the crazy excuses Republicans were making for not wearing masks.  I have to laugh, and hard.

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2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Since you are not a member of either of those parties, how do you feel about the Dictatorial Jo Biden signing in all those executive orders? He has even been quoted as saying during the campaign that any President that relied on Executive orders to enforce their will is a dictator so that by his own words, he condemns himself as being one. What is your stance on that from your socialistic position?

Ps- looking forward to you sharing the "many faults" you find about the Democratic party since we have thread's full already of what you issues you had with the Republican one.

I don't think you know what being a Socialist means, as you've equated it in the past to being far, far left and advocating total control by the government. There are two types of Socialists -- one does want more governmental control, while the other wants the people working at, for example, Walmart, enduring such low wages that they require food stamps, to actually own part of the Walmart and receive higher wages instead of seeing their deserved wages funneled off to shareholders and wealthy CEO's.
Some, such as myself, want a little of both - worker owner of corporations as well as more governmental intervention. We're dying from lack of health care and most can't afford education anymore in the U.S. -- we could do with a little governmental intervention to provide health care, education, childcare, and all the additional services that other wealthy countries enjoy. Of course you know nothing about that, living with privilege in Canada.

We probably shouldn't discuss pure politics that has nothing or little to do with the Covid response though -- the many faults I find with the Dems are way out of this parameter as I don't find many faults with Dems in the Covid response. For the most part I've attempted to limit my political points in this thread to how they've affected the Covid response. I can start a new thread to address those issues though if you want to participate.

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

The fact that I pointed out the delusional and ridiculous reasons those on the 'right' were not wearing masks did not mean I believed ANYONE on the 'left' was not at fault for mask non-compliance -- it only meant I was choosing to focus at that time on those whose excuses for not wearing masks was comical and delusional and worthy of a slap-down, as well as the group I found much more responsible for the spread of Covid (because greater numbers of Republicans eschewed wearing masks in the earlier days due to what amounted to a religious worship of 'independence', not to mention your bizarre notions of masks actually causing Covid or heart problems).

What would be the point of interjecting, as I register my disgust for the crazies who used bizarre reasons for mask non-compliance, to say "oh and I find MORE Republicans than Democrats are not mask compliant, but that does not mean NO Democrats did not wear masks appropriately" -- that was not what the discussion was about for crying out loud -- the discussion was about the crazies who made non-mask wearing into some kind of macho or religious experience. 

After 427 posts in this thread alone, it is a wonder then that you have never found the occasion to mention the idea that perhaps both sides could stand to be a little more vigilant to masking and distancing. I believe it was in a previous thread that you actually went out of your way to ridicule the idea that Dem's (and Socialists) were in fact seen and photographed en masse without masks nor social distancing. Understandable of course for when exerting oneself with the pulling down of statues and other monuments, one needs to breathe in the maximum amount of oxygen possible to help the heart. Masks interfere with that ability so a wholly justifiable reason for not wearing one! Same when looting and and assaulting innocent bystanders I suppose. Not at all bizarre like the Conservative justifications though it still results in maskless crowds not keeping socially distant. Different sides of the same coin don't you think?

Quote

As a typical conservative, you tend to think in absolutes, in black and white/binary ways (proven by much scientific testing on brain function, btw). Here we see you engaging in binary thinking again AS PART OF YOUR DEFENSE claiming that *I* was being partisan by choosing to discuss what was pertinent to me or the discussion at that time -- the crazy excuses Republicans were making for not wearing masks.  I have to laugh, and hard.

Thinking in absolutes isn't a political issue but stems from typically dysfunctional family systems. Children brought up in alcoholic/addictive style homes are prone to that and therefore am pretty sure it is something that transcends any and all political lines. As far as the mask wearing is concerned, I see republicans being more upfront with why they are not wearing them whereas the left is in denial about why they don't because it isn't politically correct but again, the result is the same for those not in denial about that :)

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

We probably shouldn't discuss pure politics that has nothing or little to do with the Covid response though -- the many faults I find with the Dems are way out of this parameter as I don't find many faults with Dems in the Covid response. For the most part I've attempted to limit my political points in this thread to how they've affected the Covid response. I can start a new thread to address those issues though if you want to participate.

Dem's (and socialists) seem very rigid about their response in that it is vaccines or bust and not able to see or consider that there are a multitude of potential treatments that could be utilized to minimize the death count until a good vaccine comes out for those able to take advantage of it. As a result 10's of thousands have passed away when they could have been easily saved by one or another treatments that has been known about since early on in the pandemic. Without denying the ones who have passed away, there now is a question whether the pandemic is even anywhere as dire as it is being made out to be. According to a video by my favorite New Zealand doctor, we might really be suffering more from a "PCR Pandemic". ie a pandemic as a result of the covid tests rather than from a pandemic of people with the actual disease.

 

 

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I've been feeling sort of generally under-the-weather the last few days . . . including occasional bouts of shortness of breath. So, this afternoon I went to get tested for Covid-19.

They said 12 to 24 hours before the results would be available, but actually it was about 7. Probably the longest 7 hours I've spent in recent memory.

The results were negative: I do not have Covid-19.

Sobering though.

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3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

my favorite New Zealand doctor

has no idea what she is talking about: quote:

the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test was unreliable

when pressed she says stuff like might not be, doesn't sound like it to me, seems not, who knows really

another New Zealand doctor, who is a microbiologist and who does know what she is talking about said: quote:

The PCR test looks for specific genetic sequences that are only found in the SARS-CoV-2 virus,
that makes it very suitable as a screening tool as it has such a low false-positive rate 
people are highly unlikely to test positive unless the virus is present in the sample.

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

After 427 posts in this thread alone, it is a wonder then that you have never found the occasion to mention the idea that perhaps both sides could stand to be a little more vigilant to masking and distancing. I believe it was in a previous thread that you actually went out of your way to ridicule the idea that Dem's (and Socialists) were in fact seen and photographed en masse without masks nor social distancing. Understandable of course for when exerting oneself with the pulling down of statues and other monuments, one needs to breathe in the maximum amount of oxygen possible to help the heart. Masks interfere with that ability so a wholly justifiable reason for not wearing one! Same when looting and and assaulting innocent bystanders I suppose. Not at all bizarre like the Conservative justifications though it still results in maskless crowds not keeping socially distant. Different sides of the same coin don't you think?

Thinking in absolutes isn't a political issue but stems from typically dysfunctional family systems. Children brought up in alcoholic/addictive style homes are prone to that and therefore am pretty sure it is something that transcends any and all political lines. As far as the mask wearing is concerned, I see republicans being more upfront with why they are not wearing them whereas the left is in denial about why they don't because it isn't politically correct but again, the result is the same for those not in denial about that :)

Dem's (and socialists) seem very rigid about their response in that it is vaccines or bust and not able to see or consider that there are a multitude of potential treatments that could be utilized to minimize the death count until a good vaccine comes out for those able to take advantage of it. As a result 10's of thousands have passed away when they could have been easily saved by one or another treatments that has been known about since early on in the pandemic. Without denying the ones who have passed away, there now is a question whether the pandemic is even anywhere as dire as it is being made out to be. According to a video by my favorite New Zealand doctor, we might really be suffering more from a "PCR Pandemic". ie a pandemic as a result of the covid tests rather than from a pandemic of people with the actual disease.

 

 

https://factcheck.afp.com/new-zealand-doctor-makes-misleading-claims-about-countrys-pcr-testing-regime-widely-shared-youtube

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4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

multitude of potential treatments

I have not forgotten about your Ivermectin discovery. I don't know, however, if you've discovered this hidden way we can all gain access to it. It requires getting a pet pig along with all the supplies one needs to keep little piggie healthy (the Ivermectin de-wormer, of course, being the most notable). What you do is tell the vet you lost the pigs supply or that little piggie pet still has worms even after treatment, and then they'll give you more Ivermectin de-wormer you can steal for yourself.

ivermectin pig.jpg

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4 hours ago, Mollymews said:

has no idea what she is talking about: quote:


the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test was unreliable

when pressed she says stuff like might not be, doesn't sound like it to me, seems not, who knows really

another New Zealand doctor, who is a microbiologist and who does know what she is talking about said: quote:


The PCR test looks for specific genetic sequences that are only found in the SARS-CoV-2 virus,
that makes it very suitable as a screening tool as it has such a low false-positive rate 
people are highly unlikely to test positive unless the virus is present in the sample.

 

As your source states, it is only a screening tool, not a direct test that conclusively determines whether one has the infectious dna molecule. The test itself cannot differentiate between an active virus and bits or fragments of the virus left over from a successful defense your immunity system put up against an invasion of them. It would appear that the more amplification cycles a lab has to put the sample through to determine if it is in fact an active covid 19 virus, the more likely it is a false positive. So 25-30 cycles is a pretty sure indication the virus is active and growing whereas 35-40 amplification cycles tend to be only inactive fragments no longer viable to cause an infection in another host. Since a lab can use up to 40 cycles under the Covid 19 protocols, one has to know what amount of cycles the sample went through to determine the diagnosis. How much confidence can you really put into a test when the very manufacturers of the test kits put on a disclaimer on the kits themselves that they are not to be used for diagnostic purposes?

 

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3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I have not forgotten about your Ivermectin discovery. I don't know, however, if you've discovered this hidden way we can all gain access to it. It requires getting a pet pig along with all the supplies one needs to keep little piggie healthy (the Ivermectin de-wormer, of course, being the most notable). What you do is tell the vet you lost the pigs supply or that little piggie pet still has worms even after treatment, and then they'll give you more Ivermectin de-wormer you can steal for yourself.

Ahh who knew! To be honest, from your post here:

On 2/1/2021 at 5:16 PM, Luna Bliss said:

Personally, I am going with the liquid form for sheep -- a squirt in my coffee each morning. The apple flavored paste for horses, though similar to apple butter in texture and taste, just didn't quite cut it.  Not that I have Covid, but it's good to be proactive as I was exposed to six repair guys last week.

I had assumed you already had a supply of it for dealing with your exposure to the six repair guys. Since one cannot actually get it directly for a Covid 19 diagnosis, I assumed you had circumvented the block by claiming the 6 repair guys exposed you to the problem it is also prescribed for. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/pubic-lice-crabs/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20350306

Me adding 2+2 and getting 5! My bad!

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1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

 How much confidence can you really put into a test when the very manufacturers of the test kits put on a disclaimer on the kits themselves that they are not to be used for diagnostic purposes?

the purpose of the test is to identify people who return a positive sample. On which they come in for further analysis and if necessary treatment

the test isn't Yes or No. The test is Most Likely or Most Likely Not

the person in the vid argues that Most Likely and Most Likely Not makes the test unreliable. It doesn't, it makes it unsatisfactory for those who prefer and/or need certainty

a certainty for me is that the processes followed in NZ have stood us in good stead overall. Generally kiwis in the main are pretty much result-oriented in a close enough is good enough way. When a path is working then we stay on it, until it is not working. Not working in this case is lots and lots of dead people, which is not the case in NZ

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I flunked my covid-19 test..

I said can I has my test results and they said, Negative.. I was like awe  but why?

Then they said, no your test results are negative.. Then I was like, Omg you could just tell me the score, you don't have to rub it in.. Jeezus!

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On 2/8/2021 at 3:03 PM, Pamela Galli said:

No doubt there are people who base their positions on other peoples’ forum arguments. But BLM?? People poured into the streets, not just for a day, but day after day. Not just in America, but worldwide. In Paris, in London — they chanted George Floyd’s  name. 

Yet people formed their opinion of the movement based on how much they liked forum members? If so, their opinions are not worth much, and trivialize BLM.

I've been thinking about this, Pamela.

In 1993, when I first got on the Internet, found Usenet, and became embroiled in arguments over the laws of physics, it quickly became clear to me that this grand experiment in egalitarian interconnectedness had the potential to end poorly.

27 years later, I'm even more wary. People really do base their opinions upon their perceptions of forum members. It's the cult of personality writ small. Most of us have world views that are heavily shaped by a very small number of people. Our parents top that list. It's no different here. There are members of this forum who's thinking I respect, and some I perceive as threats to their own causes. Whether I believe/disbelieve Donald Trump or @Scylla Rhiadra, the power of their personalities is a considerable factor.

I have tried to remind myself that the flat out illogic I see coming from the QAnon camp is not representative of right leaning people as a whole, but the shoddy argumentative performances of some right leaning people here make it more difficult for me to suppress the notion that the thing conservatives conserve most is reason.

The left is not immune from this, and I think the righteous cause of BLM can be harmed by the support from the incompetent. I am often concerned about damage to causes I like from the unintended consequences of people who love those causes.

It would be wonderful if everyone formed their opinions based on objective reality, but that's truly difficult work. It's easier and more emotionally rewarding to seek comfort in the subjectively warm water of like minded pools.

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37 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

BLM

Listening to you discuss the BLM movement, Maddy, I'm reminded of why I changed my forum photo from my business pic to a BLM one. It was after we had actual white supremacists enter the forum during the discussion of what a hate group was (some were worried about LL's stance on it, thinking they might get in trouble for allowing the hate groups that other media was expelling from their platforms). One of the white supremacists attacked the member having the BLM photo on her profile who had posted in the thread, claiming her to be part of a terrorist organization. It was then that, in solidarity, that I changed my forum photo for support.

The person the white supremacist attacked had conveyed her troubles as a mixed race person growing up in the U.S. She had a genius level IQ, yet the school counselors and teacher didn't recommend her for college or help her prepare for that, and instead had the attitude so typical of those held toward 'brown' people -- that they were inferior and had no ability to succeed in life. I think of all the wasted potential in life due to the destructive attitudes people hold toward those they deem inferior, and it's deeply upsetting. Can there be anything worse than a wasted life -- not being able to utilize this gift we are given to be consciously alive, develop potential, contribute in positive ways to this amazing world, and have the sense that this is indeed a wonder-filled existence we have despite the pain. Yet some are cut off from this at the earliest stages of life by those who should be assisting them.

Anyway, the forum was a bit crazy at that time and threads had to be closed, right during the inauguration of the U.S. president where so many Black artists were featured in the event. I saw this same mixed race person mentioned above post in the 'what are you watching or listening' threads a post of each of these artists she was no doubt so proud of -- finally seeing them in the respected positions in society she aspired to herself. Someone reported her for being political though, and the posts were removed. I literally cried, and even now my eyes are tearing just remembering it.

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2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I flunked my covid-19 test..

I said can I has my test results and they said, Negative.. I was like awe  but why?

Then they said, no your test results are negative.. Then I was like, Omg you could just tell me the score, you don't have to rub it in.. Jeezus!

The language of my own online lab report yesterday was kind of like this: "COVID-19 virus NOT detected by real-time PCR."

It seems odd, given the importance (to MEEEEEE) of the results, that it's expressed in this way as a negative. Like, as you say, I've "failed" at something.

I was expecting "CONGRATULATIONS! You don't have Covid-19! YAY YOU! YOU GO GIRL!"

With, of course, fireworks animations. And maybe a cake.

Yes, definitely a cake.

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13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The language of my own online lab report yesterday was kind of like this: "COVID-19 virus NOT detected by real-time PCR."

It seems odd, given the importance (to MEEEEEE) of the results, that it's expressed in this way as a negative. Like, as you say, I've "failed" at something.

I was expecting "CONGRATULATIONS! You don't have Covid-19! YAY YOU! YOU GO GIRL!"

With, of course, fireworks animations. And maybe a cake.

Yes, definitely a cake.

Yea, it wasn't the exciting news I was expecting.. hehehe

When i got tested, I never thought I had it but only one night.. I had some body aches, but by morning they were gone..

I had to wait like 5 days after getting tested for my results, But  I was told to get tested because i was around someone that tested positive.. I wasn't really ever worried..

It would have been a bit more scary if I had symptoms and was waiting.. That had to be scary..

 

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13 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

It would have been a bit more scary if I had symptoms and was waiting.. That had to be scary..

The symptoms for Covid-19 are so generalized that it's pretty easy to convince yourself that you might have them. My main symptom was an occasional (but pretty slight) sense that I was having some difficulty breathing. And getting a bit dizzy or out of breath as a result. And then, of course, I began to "spot" other symptoms. Was my throat closing up a bit, making it harder to swallow? Didn't I feel a bit achy and flu-y, maybe? I didn't have a temperature: I was able to check that myself of course.

Before they administered the swab (which was an interesting experience . . .), they tested my oxygen levels and heart rate, and both were completely within the "normal" range, so that actually put my mind somewhat at ease, even as I waited for the test results. If they couldn't detect what I thought was my main symptom, difficulty breathing, then I figured I was probably ok. As indeed was the case.

I will confess, however, to being sufficiently nervous that I checked the web site that posts the test results fairly compulsively every half hour or so. And I'm glad I did, as I might not have found out I was ok as soon had I waited the 12-24 hours they suggested it might take to get results.

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7 hours ago, Mollymews said:

the purpose of the test is to identify people who return a positive sample. On which they come in for further analysis and if necessary treatment

the test isn't Yes or No. The test is Most Likely or Most Likely Not

the person in the vid argues that Most Likely and Most Likely Not makes the test unreliable. It doesn't, it makes it unsatisfactory for those who prefer and/or need certainty

a certainty for me is that the processes followed in NZ have stood us in good stead overall. Generally kiwis in the main are pretty much result-oriented in a close enough is good enough way. When a path is working then we stay on it, until it is not working. Not working in this case is lots and lots of dead people, which is not the case in NZ

Then why bother wasting the resources to do such testing? The problem is that governments are using such inconclusive testing to determine policies that in effect throw people out of work, bankrupt businesses, prevent people from sitting with loved ones who are dying and a host of other limitations that are pushing up suicides, mental health issues and domestic violence. Sure, maybe in a small population such as NZ  that is currently in its Off Flu season its fine, but up in the northern hemisphere the spike in numbers for us in the high season are becoming increasingly restrictive based solely on the numbers of those PCR testing results. Those results are of a questionable validity regarding whether someone needs to actually quarantine. Even the courts are starting to doubt that they mean much as evidenced by a recent court ruling in Portugal:

The PCR test “is unable to determine, beyond reasonable doubt, that a positive result corresponds, in fact, to the infection of a person by the SARS-CoV-2 virus”, said the Lisbon Court of Appeal.

based on their reading of a Lancet study that pointed out a scientific diagnostic test requires a lot more then a simple PCR reading and yet the PCR one is being used for legal, medical and scientific guidelines in many jurisdictions.  If policy continues to be set by PCR testing of the populations, we will never get out of lockdowns and other restrictive policies. This video is more in depth then the previous one as to why PCR testing is insufficient:

 

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1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

problem

Are you a QAnon member -- they are into all those alt-right rags you constantly cite. Even if not, you should be careful...it's like a gateway drug when you enmesh yourself in conspiracy theories.

A good article about them in theAtlantic yesterday:

There’s Nothing Fun or Funny About Marjorie Taylor Greene

QAnon and space lasers might be ludicrous, but they are also gateways to far more dangerous ideas.

"Conspiracy theorists aren’t just cranks in tinfoil hats drifting around the margins of society. A December poll found that fewer than half of Americans would say that the core idea of QAnon—“a group of Satan-worshipping elites who run a ***** ring are trying to control our politics and media”—is definitively false. Nearly 40 percent believe the QAnon tenet that the “deep state” is out to get Donald Trump. Almost half agree with the lie that the majority of the summer’s Black Lives Matter protests were violent, and one-third believe that voter fraud helped Joe Biden win the 2020 election.

Who constitutes these fractions matters just as much as how big they are. People tend to embrace conspiracy theories because they’re experiencing fear, ostracism, or a sense of losing control. They seek stories to explain what’s happening in a way that suits their needs and convictions, and those narratives become sources of power, validation, even superiority. Perhaps, then, given the country’s diversifying demographics and liberal mores, it’s no surprise who is flocking to conspiracy theories: people like Greene, who are white and on the right. Despite their enduring privilege, many white Americans feel left out or left behind. A sprawling disinformation ecosystem—including Fox News, Breitbart News, YouTube channels, and Facebook groups—reinforces their grievances ad nauseam."
 
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