Tolya Ugajin Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 32 minutes ago, Orwar said: I mean. The Roman Empire lasted close to a millennium, depending on at what point one thinks it should be called an 'empire'. The Byzantine Empire lasted for eleven centuries, the Holy Roman Empire lasted for close to a millennium. Apart from various states trying to break free from the Soviets, and a few uprisings here and there, the only inter-European conflicts past the second world war, has been what - the Icelandic-British's three 'Cod Wars'? Russian aggression in Crimea and Georgia (which both arguably aren't technically 'in Europe'). Meanwhile, you're suggesting that a nation that has existed for 243 years, and has been in a state of war for 222 years, would have anything to teach us about not fighting each other? Define "state of war". You could argue that our invasion of Grenada was a "state of war" although it took, what, 45 minutes? But, if you use that sort of definition, Britain has been in a state of war for a similar percentage of its existence, and certainly the EU portion of Europe (which is what should be considered since you're lumping it as "teach us") was continuously in a state of war for all recorded history up until the last violent revolution in its colonial empire, and France remains in such a state with its ongoing military involvements in its former empire in North Africa (they lost at least 13 soldiers in Mali just last month, for instance). Clearly the US has much to learn from Europe when it comes to maintaining a state of war, as we're still rookies at it by comparison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lindal Kidd said: At our house, we've been reading Will and Ariel Durant's massive History of Civilization. It's a cooperative effort, because I'll read some parts, get weary of history, then the Resident Geek will read some until he gets tired. We share the best parts out loud. The other day, he quoted a bit of Durant concerning the Holy Roman Empire. They established a government that was stable for nearly a millenium...at the cost of massive, impenetrable bureaucracy. The usual highlight of the evening news was yet another imperial assassination, the usual means of changing the titular figurehead. Brussels is a piker. FIFY Edited December 12, 2019 by Pamela Galli 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said: The US didn't save Europe. It helped by coming in when it got attacked, and then reaped the benefit of years of our hard-won victories and terrible sacrifice; on top of which it was as rich as hell. Then it charged us interest on its loans for - what, 60 years? I'd have to look it up. So take that and do unto yourself what you're trying to do to us. The US lost more soldiers than any other allied nation except the USSR. Granted we lost a good portion of those fighting Japan (which we did almost alone), but we were never attacked by Germany, and we could easily have ignored their declaration of war, as Germany was in no position to attack the US. So, it's a bit disingenuous to say the US didn't "save" Europe or claim we only did so because we were attacked. Had we not supplied the UK and especially the Soviets in 1940-1942, the Soviets almost certainly would have been forced to capitulate and the Brits would almost certainly have been forced to accept a Nazi-controlled mainland, as they could not have liberated France (even the parts not controlled by the Vichy regime) on their own. As far as "years of hard-won victories" - which years were those, exactly? The handing of Czechoslovakia to Hitler? The few weeks the Poles held out before being overrun? The 6 weeks it took Germany to conquer France and drive the Brits out of Dunkirk? The 23 months of almost continuously losing in North Africa, which stopped once the US entered that sector in May 1942? The only "victories" prior to US entry into the war were fighting off the Luftwaffe and holding the line at El Alamein. And that's just the war in the West. The European powers did nothing but retreat in Asia until the US stepped in. It wasn't "years" and the "hard-won victories" were very few and far between. As far as the loans go, France was more than happy to charge the US interest for loans during the Revolutionary War, which took us a couple decades to pay off, so, again, pretty disingenuous to whine about it when it's on the other foot. Oh, and we only charged 2% - not exactly usurious. Revisionist history is seldom accurate history. ETA: You may be thinking of WW1 - we certainly didn't "save Europe" in that one, we just decided we needed to get in on the dying for no particularly good reason other than to ensure France and England could repay our loans for that war. Edited December 12, 2019 by Tolya Ugajin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said: i vote for keeping RL politics OUT OF SL and for sure OUT OF THE FORUMS I second this motion. Lest I, who have no personal interest or actual knowledge in U.K. politics should start commenting with biased opinion on it as they do to the U.S. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 So....hard.....not....to.....say......something..... political.....must....fight.....urge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, Alyona Su said: Lest I, who have no personal interest or actual knowledge in U.K. politics should start commenting with biased opinion on it as they do to the U.S. As a half-Brit who is in the process of obtaining a duel citizenship, I have an interest in this particular election so I checked to see when I could expect to see results coming in. The polls don't close until 10:00pm! PM!! It's almost like they actually want people to get out and vote! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bree Giffen Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 How will Brexit affect British SL residents in premium payments and vat taxes and such? Purely from a resident standpoint should British SL residents want Brexit or no? Certainly SL shouldn't be one's main consideration on Brexit but this is the SL forum. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said: How will Brexit affect British SL residents in premium payments and vat taxes and such? Purely from a resident standpoint should British SL residents want Brexit or no? Certainly SL shouldn't be one's main consideration on Brexit but this is the SL forum. I think this will highly depend on the individual circumstances of each resident and we don't know for sure how the Brexit will play out in the long run. But uncertainty is never good for the economy and some people might even lose their jobs or have increasing costs in another area, so they have to cut back on spending money in SL. I don't think it will affect premium payments in general, after all, LL is located in the US. Vat is a more national thing, and less related to the EU (different countries have different VAT), so that might not be affected by the Brexit, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 5 hours ago, SkylabPatel said: This is a must-read for all UK residents. Britain is going to the polls today and Brexit may become a reality. In the next few hours, all UK residents should seriously consider converting all GBP - all life savings - to Linden Dollars on the Lindex. If the pound sterling crashes tomorrow, at least your money will be safe and you will be able to convert it to US$. Please pass this message on to everyone you see inworld, and even ask non-SL residents to consider making an account and converting all their money into Linden Dollars. You may not get this chance tomorrow! Well sign me up! I totally and completely rely on unsolicited advice from anonymous people online with panicked advice on what to do with my life savings. I mean, who else am I going to listen to, a financial expert? 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Psaltery Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Tolya Ugajin said: The US lost more soldiers than any other allied nation except the USSR. Granted we lost a good portion of those fighting Japan (which we did almost alone), but we were never attacked by Germany, and we could easily have ignored their declaration of war, as Germany was in no position to attack the US. So, it's a bit disingenuous to say the US didn't "save" Europe or claim we only did so because we were attacked. Had we not supplied the UK and especially the Soviets in 1940-1942, the Soviets almost certainly would have been forced to capitulate and the Brits would almost certainly have been forced to accept a Nazi-controlled mainland, as they could not have liberated France (even the parts not controlled by the Vichy regime) on their own. As far as "years of hard-won victories" - which years were those, exactly? The handing of Czechoslovakia to Hitler? The few weeks the Poles held out before being overrun? The 6 weeks it took Germany to conquer France and drive the Brits out of Dunkirk? The 23 months of almost continuously losing in North Africa, which stopped once the US entered that sector in May 1942? The only "victories" prior to US entry into the war were fighting off the Luftwaffe and holding the line at El Alamein. And that's just the war in the West. The European powers did nothing but retreat in Asia until the US stepped in. It wasn't "years" and the "hard-won victories" were very few and far between. As far as the loans go, France was more than happy to charge the US interest for loans during the Revolutionary War, which took us a couple decades to pay off, so, again, pretty disingenuous to whine about it when it's on the other foot. Oh, and we only charged 2% - not exactly usurious. Revisionist history is seldom accurate history. ETA: You may be thinking of WW1 - we certainly didn't "save Europe" in that one, we just decided we needed to get in on the dying for no particularly good reason other than to ensure France and England could repay our loans for that war. You have your history and I have mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said: You have your history and I have mine. Your "history" is a fallacy and your response is a cop out because you know you have no facts that can defend your fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 It wouldn't be a political discussion if someone didn't mention race! So much fun. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 34 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said: Your "history" is a fallacy and your response is a cop out because you know you have no facts that can defend your fallacy. Ah, I see how this works. The earth is flat. Prove me wrong. Goes off to make some tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, Orwar said: Ah, I see how this works. The earth is flat. Prove me wrong. Goes off to make some tea. When you get back with your tea, send me your RL name, birth date, passport number, credit card number with expiration and CCV, and I'll buy you a ticket where you head East, never West, and eventually return home. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conall DeCuir Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 19 minutes ago, Orwar said: Goes off to make some tea. Don't slip down the edge while walking 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Conall DeCuir said: Don't slip down the edge while walking 😎 I hear that the edge is so sharp, it will cut you in half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conall DeCuir Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said: I hear that the edge is so sharp, it will cut you in half. Thats why you marry and let her bring you the tea ... well ... ok, that was mean. I apologize! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Blackwood Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Tolya Ugajin said: The US lost more soldiers than any other allied nation except the USSR. Granted we lost a good portion of those fighting Japan (which we did almost alone), but we were never attacked by Germany, and we could easily have ignored their declaration of war, as Germany was in no position to attack the US. So, it's a bit disingenuous to say the US didn't "save" Europe or claim we only did so because we were attacked. Had we not supplied the UK and especially the Soviets in 1940-1942, the Soviets almost certainly would have been forced to capitulate and the Brits would almost certainly have been forced to accept a Nazi-controlled mainland, as they could not have liberated France (even the parts not controlled by the Vichy regime) on their own. As far as "years of hard-won victories" - which years were those, exactly? The handing of Czechoslovakia to Hitler? The few weeks the Poles held out before being overrun? The 6 weeks it took Germany to conquer France and drive the Brits out of Dunkirk? The 23 months of almost continuously losing in North Africa, which stopped once the US entered that sector in May 1942? The only "victories" prior to US entry into the war were fighting off the Luftwaffe and holding the line at El Alamein. And that's just the war in the West. The European powers did nothing but retreat in Asia until the US stepped in. It wasn't "years" and the "hard-won victories" were very few and far between. As far as the loans go, France was more than happy to charge the US interest for loans during the Revolutionary War, which took us a couple decades to pay off, so, again, pretty disingenuous to whine about it when it's on the other foot. Oh, and we only charged 2% - not exactly usurious. Revisionist history is seldom accurate history. ETA: You may be thinking of WW1 - we certainly didn't "save Europe" in that one, we just decided we needed to get in on the dying for no particularly good reason other than to ensure France and England could repay our loans for that war. Dear Tolya, I don’t get into debates because they don’t usually serve much good but in this case I think I need to say something. I am extremely grateful to the USA for fighting the Nazis in the Second World War but I am also extremely disappointed in the USA for selling Poland and many others to the Soviet Union. I am again grateful to the USA for fighting the Soviet Union and for making it possible for my family to escape and enjoy peace and freedom in North America. History is like art. There is no beginning and no end. I just wish we could all be more civil and accepting of one another. I am am sorry for signalling you out but I don’t enjoy any Nation being tarnished. This is not a personal attack. Please don’t take it that way. I admire your spunk. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conall DeCuir Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Marut72 said: I am extremely grateful to the USA for fighting the Nazis in the Second World War but I am also extremely disappointed in the USA for selling Poland and many others to the Soviet Union. I am again grateful to the USA for fighting the Soviet Union and for making it possible for my family to escape and enjoy peace and freedom in North America. I agree fully. Without america, i would now be a Russian, if i would be alive at all because my parents would have probably been both killed once the Rus invaded. As i recall, from the old stories being told, everyone was cheering when the US Soldiers came in. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Blackwood Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 The European powers did nothing but retreat in Asia until the US stepped in. It wasn't "years" and the "hard-won victories" were very few and far between. I also recommend looking into the eyes of the men and women and CHILDREN from France, Russia, Finland, Yugoslavia, Romania, Poland, Czechoslovakia...etc...etc and tell them they did nothing and far between. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyssa Greymoon Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, Marut72 said: I also recommend looking into the eyes of the men and women and CHILDREN from France, Russia, Finland, Yugoslavia, Romania, Poland, Czechoslovakia...etc...etc and tell them they did nothing and far between. Finland and Romania? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Blackwood Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said: Finland and Romania? You’re right. My apologies. I got mixed up with the fight against the Soviet Union. -Bows in humility- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amina Sopwith Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 If anyone needs me, I'll be hiding in a fridge. I seriously might move to Gor. Or maybe I already have and didn't realise it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Blackwood Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said: If anyone needs me, I'll be hiding in a fridge. I seriously might move to Gor. Or maybe I already have and didn't realise it. Don’t worry. I’m done now and going away to make some naughty rhymes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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