DISAPPOINTMENT IN CHARGING TO USE THE EVENTS CALENDAR

[Damian Mills]

11 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

Maybe. We can debate how to structure the events.

Fair points (all).  So if we wish for clubs to post their full line-up in events every single day (along with likely duplicates from the DJ's themselves, then what you've got is the current scenario.... and endless sea of DJ events and anyone looking for anything other than that is basically hosed.  Which gets to the part I quoted, structuring the events better and providing better sorting/filtering options.  

I'm at work now but in order to really have an intelligent thought on that I'd need to take a close look at why, exactly, I find the events list nearly useless.  I suspect that statement is too broad.  Almost certainly, there are some sections which work better than others.  So then the obvious question is, what is making the information overload problem in those that do not work well?  From there, thoughts about how to provide a more useful structure to that information would make sense.  I think I'll take a closer inspection when I get home.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

These days it's rare for a DJ to be paid by the venue so the DJs have to depend on tips. 

When my man DJs in world --- he does it for fun and could care less about tips. He likes digging into the library and playing some rare stuff since we're usually playing into SL from our RL bar.

[Selene Gregoire]

Just now, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

When my man DJs in world --- he does it for fun and could care less about tips. He likes digging into the library and playing some rare stuff since we're usually playing into SL from our RL bar.

That's wonderful for the two of you!

The problem is most DJs have to pay rental for a stream and need those tips to cover that cost. RL SO is one that depends on tips to cover costs because we can't afford to pay for it out of pocket. If (and I do mean IF) our RL financial situation changes for the better then he wouldn't need to depend on tips so much for the stream and the other things he likes to do in SL. I wouldn't even be in SL these days if it weren't for being hired as a landscaper/rental manager because we simply can't afford to buy Ls for the things we like to do.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

12 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

Where they ask for money themselves? Or where the venues ask to tip them?

If its the former, I tend to avoid anyone who asks for money themselves. Being a DJ has nothing to do with the ethics of that to me. If its the latter, that should happen. DJs should not be treated any differently than anyone else trying to do the job they were hired for and that they enjoy doing.

As far as I understand you need to own rights to the songs you play. Many are gong along downloading music without a care about it. Playing it and requesting money for it. Because I can not tell who is legit and who is not, I will just not attend.  that is the ethical of it. Just like I will not buy mesh and items stolen or used improperly in SL. 

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

17 hours ago, Tarina Sewell said:

As far as I understand you need to own rights to the songs you play. Many are gong along downloading music without a care about it. Playing it and requesting money for it. Because I can not tell who is legit and who is not, I will just not attend.  that is the ethical of it. Just like I will not buy mesh and items stolen or used improperly in SL. 

Bingo!  A few of us do belong to PROs like Socan, but many in world don't. One rule they have is you can't stream more then 3 songs from the same performer within a time period. Yet I'll see them play an entire album like the Beatles. A big no-no.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Kimmi Zehetbauer
Senile.

[Pussycat Catnap]

On 11/23/2019 at 7:22 PM, Bridget Hammill said:

...

I am highly disappointed that because of people who miss use it with spam we are all going to be penalized by being charged to use it.

...

This change will most certainly make our club stop using this way to advertise our events.  While i am sure to most 10 lindens or 50 lindens if you are not a member seems like very little it adds up when we have hosts who have 6 shifts a week or for a club like mine who runs around the clock 24/7.  I am hoping that SL will rethink this change.

If you're using it properly... it won't add up.

Properly might be 1-2 postings a week. If even that.

I don't know how much 6 shifts / 24/7 adds up to... but it sounds like this policy is actually aimed at your example...

 

 

[Adam Spark]

14 hours ago, Tarina Sewell said:

As far as I understand you need to own rights to the songs you play. Many are gong along downloading music without a care about it. Playing it and requesting money for it. Because I can not tell who is legit and who is not, I will just not attend.  that is the ethical of it. Just like I will not buy mesh and items stolen or used improperly in SL. 

Its up to the venue, or in this case Linden Lab, to maintain license. It is not up to the DJ.

"When a DJ plays live at a venue and mixes a collection of tracks, the venue usually pays the licensing fees for the songs that the DJ’s play, 99% of the time, to a Performing Rights Organisation (PRO for short). In the U.S., this is an organisation like ASCAP or BMI (in my country, Australia, it’s called APRA AMCOS).

This means that DJs don’t have to worry about breaching copyright by playing other people’s tracks, because the venue covers you."

https://djtechtools.com/2017/06/05/basics-dj-copyright-laws/

Is just like the gambling that was shut down. Nobody went after the operators of the virtual casinos until Linden Lab had no choice but to block their operation.

[JUSTUS Palianta]

yeah i disagree with Adam

[Adam Spark]

2 hours ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

yeah i disagree with Adam

Not my opinion. I looked it up and linked to a source.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

That covers more of RL clubs/venues. Another set of licenses apply for internet radio and streams, like those you hear in SL. In our RL bar we have licenses with the PRO for DJs and live performers that play in our place.  And another the covers the web stuff.

[ChinRey]

12 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

Its up to the venue, or in this case Linden Lab, to maintain license. It is not up to the DJ.

It is not up to the DJ by default but it's not up to Linden Lab either. LL's role here is very clearly defined by the various "safe harbour" laws around the world.

It's the event organizer, the person or organisation who hires and pays the DJ that is responsible for the royalities.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

On 12/1/2019 at 3:30 PM, Adam Spark said:

Its up to the venue, or in this case Linden Lab, to maintain license. It is not up to the DJ.

"When a DJ plays live at a venue and mixes a collection of tracks, the venue usually pays the licensing fees for the songs that the DJ’s play, 99% of the time, to a Performing Rights Organisation (PRO for short). In the U.S., this is an organisation like ASCAP or BMI (in my country, Australia, it’s called APRA AMCOS).

This means that DJs don’t have to worry about breaching copyright by playing other people’s tracks, because the venue covers you."

https://djtechtools.com/2017/06/05/basics-dj-copyright-laws/

Is just like the gambling that was shut down. Nobody went after the operators of the virtual casinos until Linden Lab had no choice but to block their operation.

Most of the DJs are downloading music without paying for it and then replaying it in SL and asking for money for the music they downloaded (most illegally - AND THAT is my main issue) for free. So... as I said.. The ethics of it are just fubar.  As Kimmi said, her rl bar has licenses and are upholding an ethical relationship, in SL people think they can do what they want and ***** the ethics of it.  I had no issue whatsoever when sl closed all the gambling areas. I do not gamble. Also, I am not in Australia.   Btw, I would go to a DJ event where it is live streamed from a rl bar.

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Tarina Sewell

[Alwin Alcott]

On 12/1/2019 at 9:30 PM, Adam Spark said:

This means that DJs don’t have to worry about breaching copyright by playing other people’s tracks, because the venue covers you."

 

the DJ does for sure has to worry... if a club doesn't have a license he is fully responsible for the fees. ( in RL !)
In SL a club isn't a club ... it's only about the DJ and is solely responsible for his internet radio station.( thats what he is)
The DJ has to have a license to broadcast. And a license to use the music.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Alwin Alcott

[Mollymews]

2 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

In SL a club isn't a club ... it's only about the DJ and is solely responsible for his internet radio station.( thats what he is)

^^ this

agree.  The DJ is an internet radio station/broadcaster. And when broadcasting commercial music then the DJ (the owner of the radio station/broadcaster) is subject to the license terms of the recording rights holder

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

4 hours ago, Tarina Sewell said:

Most of the DJs are downloading music without paying for it and then replaying it in SL and asking for money for the music they downloaded (most illegally - AND THAT is my main issue) for free. So... as I said.. The ethics of it are just fubar.  As Kimmi said, her rl bar has licenses and are upholding an ethical relationship, in SL people think they can do what they want and ***** the ethics of it.  I had no issue whatsoever when sl closed all the gambling areas. I do not gamble. Also, I am not in Australia.   Btw, I would go to a DJ event where it is live streamed from a rl bar.

Correct, many of the DJs grab songs nicking them off a video site or torrent. The ethical way to get music is via your own collection or through legal CD/DJ pools or online stores. Those are a good way to build up the collection. Compilation CDs are a good way to build a decent library.

[Cindy Evanier]

21 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Correct, many of the DJs grab songs nicking them off a video site or torrent. The ethical way to get music is via your own collection or through legal CD/DJ pools or online stores. Those are a good way to build up the collection. Compilation CDs are a good way to build a decent library.

I will leave a DJ event as soon as you see the song details announced in local chat  with all the tags at the end like  [with lyrics] [Official Video]  etc 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Cindy Evanier

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

23 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

I will leave a DJ event as soon as you see they song details announced in local chat  with all the tags at the end like  [with lyrics] [Official Video]  etc 

 

Seen that and it's really tacky. Not only the nick the song --- but too lazy to edit the title, or they have no clue.  Another is clubs that don't allow song titles to show  and tell the DJ to disable them. My man ran into that and said he couldn't turn the titles off due to license requirements. The manager said **** the license. My guy simply said bye! 2 weeks later that place was gone.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Kimmi Zehetbauer
Fixed formating due to fat finger syndrome.

[Cinos Field]

26 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Correct, many of the DJs grab songs nicking them off a video site or torrent. The ethical way to get music is via your own collection or through legal CD/DJ pools or online stores. Those are a good way to build up the collection. Compilation CDs are a good way to build a decent library.

That wouldn't make broadcasting it any more legal to broadcast. DJ culture has always been kind of a a gray area. You'd go to the vinyl store, buy some music and then play those, but that's not actually enough to be legally in the clear. You'd also need a license to perform that music in public, and those cost quite a bit.

This goes doubly for "free" DJs like in SL, where few get paid anything significant beyond just tips, and mostly do it for fun. Technically it's probably against the law. But nobody would ever prosecute.

 

[HaileyDay]

I used to have an online business and when I paid for advertising I was provided analytics so I could determine how many customers used that advertisement to get to my site.  This way I could determine how effective the advertisement was, and if the cost justified the benefit.  Will LL also provide analytics if they are charging for the service?  I am also wondering how the "recurring event" feature will work.  Will the cost be 10-50L charged one time, or 10-50L per day?

[Pamela Galli]

1 hour ago, HaileyDay said:

I used to have an online business and when I paid for advertising I was provided analytics so I could determine how many customers used that advertisement to get to my site.  This way I could determine how effective the advertisement was, and if the cost justified the benefit.  Will LL also provide analytics if they are charging for the service?  I am also wondering how the "recurring event" feature will work.  Will the cost be 10-50L charged one time, or 10-50L per day?

We had that kind of info before LL bought SL Exchange, and were promised more of the same from Marketplace. Never happened.

[HaileyDay]

I just think if you are going to charge for advertising, you should be able to back it up with some kind of information so that the business knows if their advertisement dollars are actually working for them.  If it is not, it is just a cost they may not want to incur.

[Alyona Su]

12 minutes ago, HaileyDay said:

I just think if you are going to charge for advertising, you should be able to back it up with some kind of information so that the business knows if their advertisement dollars are actually working for them.  If it is not, it is just a cost they may not want to incur.

Event's listed in the events calendar is not an advertisement. It's an announcement and you're asking for room in the calendar, not an advert in a newspaper.

[Daniel Blakewell]

They really screwed us with the SL Events Calendar. I've seen some changes and it use to be more organized. I remember when things were different ugh. I wasn't going to say anything but now they want to charge for posting. They broke it, and it use to work just fine. They are just giving excuses. If they charged less to Non Premium users, I wouldn't be soo iffed. 

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

1 hour ago, DanielLoveStefani said:

They really screwed us with the SL Events Calendar. I've seen some changes and it use to be more organized. I remember when things were different ugh. I wasn't going to say anything but now they want to charge for posting. They broke it, and it use to work just fine. They are just giving excuses. If they charged less to Non Premium users, I wouldn't be soo iffed. 

Is that what they do best --- break things? 🤣🤣🤣

[Jaylinbridges]

They didn't waste any time adding the fees for SL Event postings.   So now, according to LL, all the "spam" will go away.  And the moon is made of green cheese.  From the Create a new event web page:

"Create a new event

At the Basic subscription level, the fee for creating an event is L$50. At the Premium level, the fee is only L$10.
Learn more about Premium or upgrade now.

I understand that my account will be charged L$50 for each event I create"

Just another way to get that Premium upfront cash.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Jaylinbridges