Fionalein Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) If RL politics are going to be excluded you cannot have a CSD event either... just saying. The line between what's political and what not is blurry. The faireground was opened in pride month with a rainbow coloured Magellan statue on it - which can be interpreted as a political message by the LDPW itself... When politics come around they're just doomed - there will be conflict wether they allow it or not. Edited July 16, 2019 by Fionalein 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Pride isn't politics, despite how many people justify their bigotry that way. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Shadow Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 No matter what the Lindens decide, the label "political" will be attached to some events and will make some people loudly unhappy. I'm not at all arguing that it should be a free for all and the more clarity we have, the better, but for now the main concern seems to be on getting things built rather than the fine tuning of how the community will use things. Talk ideals and ideas, not parties & labels is my rule of thumb, but we live in tense times and the internet allows a very diverse array of people to get up in each other's spaces (for good & for bad). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said: Pride isn't politics, despite how many people justify their bigotry that way. That's the problem, though -- in this context, whether or not something is political is, in itself, a political judgment. For example, this time next year, should LL allow the fairgrounds to be used for what the (non-US) organisers describe -- correctly -- as a parade, marching bands and fireworks to celebrate an important historical event in the history of their community, dating back longer than the 4th of July, which is marked back in their country with parades, bonfires and a public holiday? Better think carefully here, since a lot of people in Ireland, North and South, and the UK Mainland (particularly parts of Scotland) have quite strong views about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parades_Commission A general rule against rallies in favour of candidates for elected office would be simple to enforce, I guess, but I get worried once we get beyond that. I mean, you might not consider a pride event poltical, but I would imagine that -- whether they were for it or against it -- an SL resident in Moscow or Kiev might see the event as very political indeed. I can't imagine that's an argument into which LL would wish to be drawn. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 To counter politics, many companies now are having intentional “Diversity and Inclusion” groups and training; if someone doesn’t like it due to their politics, they can work somewhere else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said: A general rule against rallies in favour of candidates for elected office would be simple to enforce, I guess, but I get worried once we get beyond that. I'd be OK with that rule, since the person whose politics I do not want to "celebrate" has a tendency to turn every event into a campaign rally for himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2Pandora Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Politics will divide Bellisseria the same way it divides things irl. We're already having enough problems as is creeping in here, unfortunately. Personally would really rather them not allow something that stirs more hate than acceptance. Personally I wouldn't attend anything political no matter what on here, but then i've also seen first hand the animosity these things create and want to be no part of it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nika Talaj Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I am sorry, Owl, for hijacking your happy thread with this side issue. But I'm glad the discussion took place somewhere, some good observations here, may help inform LL's policy down the road. Hopefully the issue won't actually come up at all (hey, it could happen!), and we can have happy & inclusive occasions galore at the fairgrounds! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 My 2 cents on politics on Bellisseria... It's going to be divisive no matter how we try to get out in front of it. We're gearing up for what is going to be a hugely contentious election season in the US. We're already seeing some trollish activity in Belli involving politics designed solely to stir the argument soup. If there are any political events at the fairgrounds, I worry less about the event and more about the potential for trollish behavior in the water surrounding it. Residents on every side will yell about their 1st amendment rights which do not actually apply in SL at all. I don't know... where is the line? What types of events are okay and what aren't? Pride may be contentious in other countries, but LL is based in the US where Pride has most definitely, and thankfully, crossed into the mainstream. See? I'm already justifying the events I agree with in my head. Thankfully, it's up to LL to make those hard decisions and not us... lol! I feel certain that there will be discussions at the Lab surrounding these types of things. It would be awesome if residents could just be wise enough to keep their politics private but we already have a group claiming to be a registered PAC. That ship has sailed. It's a proverbial pickle. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Serpente Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) Did the confussion with the Belisseria Fairground guidelines/rules was solved? Edited July 16, 2019 by Seba Serpente Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonytorino Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 4 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said: Pride isn't politics, despite how many people justify their bigotry that way. very true. To the point. People's wellbeing, rights and factors that don't cause others harm except maybe their fragile egos is not political power. but ethical powered. It's sad to see racism, and phobias that are ego driven surface today, but the way you combat it is using wisdom, but also presenting oneself as compassionate and support of tthe happiness of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionalein Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said: I don't know... where is the line? What types of events are okay and what aren't? Pride may be contentious in other countries, but LL is based in the US where Pride has most definitely, and thankfully, crossed into the mainstream. Explain the current situation then - I wish it would have - but it clearly hasn't. Media (some weirdos aside) more or less try to stay politically correct - but I bet the picture media paint is not 100% accurate to the real situation found out there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 28 minutes ago, Fionalein said: Explain the current situation then https://www.statista.com/topics/1249/homosexuality/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 6 hours ago, Seba Serpente said: Did the confussion with the Belisseria Fairground guidelines/rules was solved? Yes, the below link is the official request form and whatever it says about rules applies https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfW3okOHHPkfRytljdXlWKQYaI9_d34oze3fN_z-O27BxfN0Q/viewform 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Serpente Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Someone mentioned before Google Forms not being an appropiate way to work on this process. I have to agree there. I will take the chance to suggest the creation of an appropiate spot for guidelines/rules on an official website or forum, atleast that part, as i find important to have that information properly in reach for anyone who seeks it. A Google Form intended just for the organizer doesn't looks ideal, and, that information is quite important for many people to attend and participate on these events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, Seba Serpente said: Someone mentioned before Google Forms not being an appropiate way to work on this process. I have to agree there. I will take the chance to suggest the creation of an appropiate spot for guidelines/rules on an official website or forum, atleast that part, as i find important to have that information properly in reach for anyone who seeks it. A Google Form intended just for the organizer doesn't looks ideal, and, that information is quite important for many people to attend and participate on these events. LL's opinion on that is really all that matters right now, since they own the process. See Patch's comment here: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Serpente Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said: LL's opinion on that is really all that matters right now, since they own the process. See Patch's comment here: I dont mean on the free side of it, just the fact is not accessible enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttacwup Float Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 All of the information and links will be added to the wiki. If you look on the form you can see the link to the calendar which is shared and can be added to your own calendar. It will all be out there and accessible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raevyn Addams Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 At the risk of stirring more of that argument soup that Beth mentioned, Bellisseria is fast becoming a macrocosm of all (okay not all, but a lot) that is wrong with our society, and that's especially evident here on the forums. I'd like to think that people are intelligent enough to engage in thoughtful debate over opposing opinions, beliefs, and ideals. The reality is that's just not the case. For just about everything there is a counterargument; what one person sees as a positive step another is going to look at as a step backward. In a platform like Second Life there has to be a kind of suspension from reality, while also serving as a reflection of reality, in being that we're all real people (more or less) bringing our real life experiences to the table. I am not American, but since SL is based in the US as a user I have to accept I am essentially walking on foreign soil to whatever degree. If someone wants to celebrate the 4th of July in SL it's not my place to stop them or question why. Rather, I look at it again like I am not in Australia. I am in a virtual slice of America. With each new Resident it is made up of all these other nationalities and cultures, but the basis, the frame work, is American. If anyone wants to live in a culture that isn't America there's the freedom to recreate your ideal to the best of your abilities within this American substructure, gather with likeminded souls, and live there as comfortably as you see fit. The problem lies where it always has; with us as people trying to educate or enlighten or enforce our beliefs onto others because we think we are right, we are enlightened, we are freeing people from religious or sexual or political oppression. The fact is some people simply don't want to be freed. Certain allowances have to be made by all in order to share a space that is built for all, not just whatever movement is "in" at any given moment in time. Tolerance is just a word until we actually put it into practice, and that applies to those who fervently believe in a cause and those who fervently deny it. I may be less likely to be tolerant of something that cuts too close to home in my RL beliefs, but if it does, then the responsibility is with me to avoid that situation. If I don't agree I can disagree, I just don't need to tell the whole world on my way out the door. Personally I wouldn't want to see political campaigns taking place on the fairgrounds, but if they do and I don't agree then I just won't go. That should be the end of the matter. Picking and choosing what may be more broadly acceptable to society is, thankfully, LL's job to decide. TL;DR: if an event takes place in a public space that you don't like, don't go. It's no different to RL in that regard. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I'm a very outspoken member of the Pineapple On Pizza Party (PoPP). We're in direct opposition to the No Pineapple Party (NPP). Not only does my party believe pineapple belongs on pizza, we believe anything and everything deserves equal consideration when making the deeply personal choice regarding pizza toppings. The opposition party believes pineapples should not only be banned from pizza, but also banned from everything, and locked away behind a wall. They believe there should be a firmly set, established list of traditional pizza toppings with pepperoni at the top of that small, exclusive list and any changes to that list, should their party win, would be strictly forbidden. As a member of the PoPP, I feel very strongly that it is my ethical, moral obligation to vehemently oppose the NPP when they appear in my city. It's my duty to face them down because pineapples deserve not just equality, but equity, when it comes to pizza toppings. No one has to put pineapple on their pizza. Sometimes I don't even want pineapple on my pizza, but as a pizza-eater, that is my personal decision and no one has any business trying to take that choice from me. Any event held at the Fairgrounds has to be open to the public. If the NPP holds an event there, I will be there in opposition, same as when they show up in my city, and I will be vocal because I passionately believe in Pineapple on Pizza. All that to say that I think maybe, in an effort to keep the peace, political events should not be allowed at the Fairgrounds. 1 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Pineapple on a pizza .. a fruit pie .. with cheese on it .. I don't think I want to live on this planet anymore. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonytorino Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 8:15 AM, Innula Zenovka said: "- an SL resident in Moscow or Kiev might see the event as very political indeed. " I can't imagine that's an argument into which LL would wish to be drawn. An SL resident in Russia's opinion of Gay PRide, or other community events is irrelevant. We have lived in RUssia, and they have many issues with ego to work through, and struggles to over come, more then their opinion of pride and people rights are concerned, since it is very lacking. Linden Labs is a US owned company. Second Life regulations fall under that. The founders aspects will continue in support. Who someone wants to vote for and the declinign stability and rising egos need to be left out of the community with focus on support of each other as well as compassionate understanding. If the event is for people who are known to slander others, you ccan bet it won't be approved. If it is about inclusion and growth then it will. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliza Wrigglesworth Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 DEEP DISH FOREVAH! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliza Wrigglesworth Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) People can do what they like on the Fairgrounds as far as I'm concerned, and I can exercise my right to participate or not. I also have a right to turn off the tv, radio, etc. But seriously though....I hate deep dish, and pineapple pizza too. That ain't pizza. Edited July 17, 2019 by Eliza Wrigglesworth can't spell 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonytorino Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 15 minutes ago, Eliza Wrigglesworth said: DEEP DISH FOREVAH! Stuffed with cheesy crust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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