I Will not accept Tilia

[Selene Gregoire]

1 minute ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

You will still have the account, even if you never use it..

No, I won't. I've never converted or withdrawn. Never given LL my SSN because I've never converted or withdrawn. 

What you seemed to have missed is the fact that LL is NOW saying those who do not, will not have a Tilia account. I buy my Ls through my viewer, not from the website. And I don't want to hear about how much cheaper it is to buy via the website. I've been hearing that for as long as the damn thing has existed. I have good reason for doing things my way and no one (except me of course) needs to know my reasons.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Drake, you're so far from understanding my point that it's like we're engaged in two different conversations.

I'm going to say this one more time only in the hope that you understand. And if you don't, it doesn't much matter anyway.

Yes, maybe she and the myriad of other angry, confused, and upset people who've been responding to Tilia, are "lazy." Maybe they're also "stupid," or "incompetent," or "impatient," or any combination of derogatives that you want to hurl at them.

I said lazy, dont go putting words in my mouth.

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It doesn't matter what you think of them.

I never said it did. 

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

What does matter, and what LL should be (and probably is) worried about, even if you aren't, is that there is a really large and vocal body of SL residents, contributing members to this community and platform, who are deeply alienated from and angry with LL. And some of them may very well leave.

And that is what matters.

I'm glad, I suppose, that it makes you feel better to yell insults at them as they head out the door, but a smart company is going to do what it can to address their alienation, rather than take cold comfort, as concurrency drops and the SL economy suffers, from the fact that they are "lazy."

You really think LL is worried that "a large and vocal body of SL residents" cant understand the written word? Seriously, after all this, you really think people will leave after being told time and time again that if they dont cash out it doesn't apply to you? How is this such a hard thing to understand? 

And LL is addressing the situation, people just aren't looking for the answers. 

2 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

but she would have never accepted the Tilia TOS even though she had an account... duh

And? Point being, she doesn't have to. So the rage quit over this is pointless. 

Lets say it for the people in the back.. 

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A USD BALANCE TILIA HAS NO BEARING ON YOUR SL.

[Fionalein]

Just now, Drake1 Nightfire said:

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A USD BALANCE TILIA HAS NO BEARING ON YOUR SL.

*headdesks* 

but everyone has a USD balance ... that's the whole point

[Drake1 Nightfire]

1 minute ago, Fionalein said:

*headdesks* 

but everyone has a USD balance ... that's the whole point

I don't.. 

ETA please don't say a zero balance is a balance..

Edited July 14, 2019 by Drake1 Nightfire

[Drake1 Nightfire]

5 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

No, I won't. I've never converted or withdrawn. Never given LL my SSN because I've never converted or withdrawn. 

What you seemed to have missed is the fact that LL is NOW saying those who do not, will not have a Tilia account. I buy my Ls through my viewer, not from the website. And I don't want to hear about how much cheaper it is to buy via the website. I've been hearing that for as long as the damn thing has existed. I have good reason for doing things my way and no one (except me of course) needs to know my reasons.

Whether you buy inworld through the viewer or on the lindex, you are buying from the same place... At the same yield...  

Edited July 14, 2019 by Drake1 Nightfire

[Selene Gregoire]

5 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

*headdesks* 

but everyone has a USD balance ... that's the whole point

Zero balances are not carried forward. That is what makes the difference. 

If you think about it, according to the logic you are using, we all have accounts with every existing business entity and those accounts have zero balances. Because we don't do business with them. They don't carry that information on their books because it is completely unnecessary.

 

ETA: I suspect the zero balances we all see are nothing more than placeholders for LL's software and has nothing to do with accounting.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Love Zhaoying]

14 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

but she would have never accepted the Tilia TOS even though she had an account... duh

I’ve read “you don’t have to accept Tilia TOS if you don’t ever have a USD balance”, and also “you will be presented with the new Tilia TOS August 1.” I have no USD balance; we’ll see if it asks me to accept Tilia TOS after August first, and if it lets me continue to SL if I say “no”. I’m not anti-Tilia, I’m just making an observation.

[Love Zhaoying]

12 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

*headdesks* 

but everyone has a USD balance ... that's the whole point

Um..wrong? *ducks*

[Scylla Rhiadra]

15 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

And? Point being, she doesn't have to. So the rage quit over this is pointless.

Yes, we agree. It is.

And you are still utterly missing my point, so it's time to disengage.

[Fionalein]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Um..wrong? *ducks*

It depends on how balance is defined - yet another case for the nitpickers...

[Solar Legion]

To buy L$ through the client, you must still have some sort of payment method on file.

As has been noted already: Buying through the client is the exact same as a Market Buy placed through the site - meaning it is processed in exactly the same manner.

You can protest otherwise all you like - the above is reality.

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Um..wrong? *ducks*

 It depends on how balance is defined - yet another case for the nitpickers...

From the official Tilia QA post:

Quote: “Will EVERYONE who uses Second Life have to agree to the new Tilia TOS and Privacy Policy - or just those who use credit processing in USD? *the answer to this question was edited on July 12 to reflect the most up to date information*
Only those who have a USD wallet need to consent to Tilia’s ToS. If you have a USD wallet, these will be presented to you when you log in to your SL account on the web.”

[Selene Gregoire]

6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

it's time to disengage.

Indeed.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

it's time to disengage.

 Indeed.

Hold up, I was just striking a rhythm! But consent was withdrawn so I will too.

[Sammy Huntsman]

On 7/13/2019 at 3:51 PM, Chic Aeon said:

The OFFICIAL SL Town Hall video is here and has been up since yesterday late afternoon as I updated my blog post with the link. I haven't seen any transcript yet though so if someone knows where it is, please post. Thanks.

 

 

I literally said that twice, that they had a town meeting video up. I was mocked, and told that it wasn't enough. I don't get how I get chastised and mocked for actually trying to help.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, halebore Aeon said:

I literally said that twice, that they had a town meeting video up. I was mocked, and told that it wasn't enough. I don't get how I get chastised and mocked for actually trying to help.

Nobody "mocked" you. And it's great that you are directing people to the video.

The point that I was making was that it was absurd and hopeless to suggest that the thousands, if not tens of thousands, of residents who want or need to know if and how they are affected by Tilia are going to watch a static hour-long video, especially as a single paragraph of well-written and concise prose would more than do the trick for about 99% of SLers.

[Sammy Huntsman]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Nobody "mocked" you. And it's great that you are directing people to the video.

The point that I was making was that it was absurd and hopeless to suggest that the thousands, if not tens of thousands, of residents who want or need to know if and how they are affected by Tilia are going to watch a static hour-long video, especially as a single paragraph of well-written and concise prose would more than do the trick for about 99% of SLers.

But here is the thing, I was actually trying to help. But was practically told that this wasn't enough, as it wasn't "entertaining" or "gripping" enough. What do you expect town hall meetings to be, how do we make a livestream/video of that nature engaging?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

But here is the thing, I was actually trying to help. But was practically told that this wasn't enough, as it wasn't "entertaining" or "gripping" enough. What do you expect town hall meetings to be, how do we make a livestream/video of that nature engaging?

As town halls go, it was fine. And for those who are either sufficiently interested, or really want the fully detailed story, it's a great resource.

But most people don't want, or need, that much information. A town hall, and a video like this (or a lengthy transcript of it) is not even close to the best means to communicate the simple information that needs to be conveyed to the vast majority of SL residents.

If you were told that Facebook had new privacy guidelines, but that to learn them, you had to sit through an hour long video of a cartoon Mark Zuckerberg droning on about them, would you do it? If you got a new video game, and were informed that, before you could even load it, you were required to watch an hour of the game company's Vice President, Development, talk about the licensing agreement you were accepting, would you do it?

Edited July 15, 2019 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Sammy Huntsman]

12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

As town halls go, it was fine. And for those who are either sufficiently interested, or really want the fully detailed story, it's a great resource.

But most people don't want, or need, that much information. A town hall, and a video like this (or a lengthy transcript of it) is not even close to the best means to communicate the simple information that needs to be conveyed to the vast majority of SL residents.

If you were told that Facebook had new privacy guidelines, but that to learn them, you had to sit through an hour long video of a cartoon Mark Zuckerberg droning on about them, would you do it? If you got a new video game, and were informed that, before you could even load it, you were required to watch an hour of the game company's Vice President, Development, talk about the licensing agreement you were accepting, would you do it?

Of course I would, if that meant I would learn about certain things. Funny enough, I have no patience. Yet I will sit through a tutorial, or a Q&A session. But that rarely happens, LL is doing this. To try and reach out to the community, and communicate with us. It may be long form and boring, but it's better than having no communication, and them releasing tillia and not telling us, until we found out on August 1st. But I would prefer newsletters, like Fallout 76s inside the vault. Have it short form, and easily digestable for the masses.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, halebore Aeon said:

But I would prefer newsletters, like Fallout 76s inside the vault. Have it short form, and easily digestable for the masses.

YES! THIS! Exactly!

As I am pretty sure I said above, I think the town hall was a good idea: I like to see LL reaching out to different kinds of residents through a variety of channels.

But most SL residents -- probably 90% or more -- don't need more than a one or two sentence communication informing them that this doesn't apply to them at all. The next largest group, who don't transfer money out, but do have a USD balance, need a few sentences more, explaining that they need to agree to the Tilia TOS, and that they may potentially be charged an "inactivity fee."

And there should be links to fuller, more detailed explanations, like the video, for those who want or feel they need more information.

[Sammy Huntsman]

5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

YES! THIS! Exactly!

As I am pretty sure I said above, I think the town hall was a good idea: I like to see LL reaching out to different kinds of residents through a variety of channels.

But most SL residents -- probably 90% or more -- don't need more than a one or two sentence communication informing them that this doesn't apply to them at all. The next largest group, who don't transfer money out, but do have a USD balance, need a few sentences more, explaining that they need to agree to the Tilia TOS, and that they may potentially be charged an "inactivity fee."

And there should be links to fuller, more detailed explanations, like the video, for those who want or feel they need more information.

But I think in most of my rants, it wasn't me being rude and dickish. But to make a long story short, people may not agree with it. But it is better than getting nothing at all. I would rather a company communicate with it's clients and be transparent, than a company who is opaque and pump out updates or something as controversial as this, without our knowledge. That I can respect about LL, sure I would like things to be short form, and more digestable. So I am not reading through what feels like a thesis. But right now, I am pretty happy that we got some transparency from the Lab.

[Chic Aeon]

8 hours ago, halebore Aeon said:

I literally said that twice, that they had a town meeting video up. I was mocked, and told that it wasn't enough. I don't get how I get chastised and mocked for actually trying to help.

I honestly don't know what you are talking about and who think mocked you.  I posted the link to the official video because the other one had thirty minutes of WAITING before the actual meeting started. The person didn't cut off all that wait time -- maybe because the don't have a video editor, but people were complaining about that.  So one that started  as the meeting started was -- in my mind "better". 

 

That's it. 

 

EDIT: Sorry, I got confused with all the video pasting in and original comments  WAY back in the thread and who said what --- likely my post here makes very little sense in the correct context but leaving it here for historical reasons anyway. 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Chic Aeon

[Scylla Rhiadra]

27 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

But I think in most of my rants, it wasn't me being rude and dickish.

If anyone was being these things, I didn't notice it. I just saw a debate and disagreement.

28 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

But to make a long story short, people may not agree with it. But it is better than getting nothing at all. I would rather a company communicate with it's clients and be transparent, than a company who is opaque and pump out updates or something as controversial as this, without our knowledge.

It is indeed better than nothing, but LL can, and I'm pretty sure will, do better.

The ideal is both long and short form communications -- the former for those who want or need fuller detail, and the latter for the majority who don't. LL has done a better job now of providing details, which is indeed a step towards fuller transparency. The next step is to provide something much briefer and more accessible, for a much broader audience.

31 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

But right now, I am pretty happy that we got some transparency from the Lab.

As am I!

[Qie Niangao]

7 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The point that I was making was that it was absurd and hopeless to suggest that the thousands, if not tens of thousands, of residents who want or need to know if and how they are affected by Tilia are going to watch a static hour-long video, especially as a single paragraph of well-written and concise prose would more than do the trick for about 99% of SLers.

At this point they're in a bit of a pickle. I understood that they originally intended that everybody would agree to the Tilia ToS whether they even used it or not, then they realized lots of folks were spooked by that, so they changed it so people only need to execute the agreement when they're about to do something that will create a USD wallet -- which, of course, the vast majority of SL users never do. And I'm serious: If this had been the plan all along, they should never have made an open-to-all blog post about it. They might have posted a note in some merchant forum and mention it at the Web user group. Making it a big blog post, together with the "everybody must agree" implication, got a big chunk of the population all riled up even though they mostly didn't understand what there was to be riled up about.

But too late now: it's like cognitive dissonance or attribution theory or something: the riled-up population has all this cortisol coursing through their veins, there must be some reason for all this arousal and by golly there must be reason to fuss!

So the Lab had to talk them down off the ledge. The Town Hall was necessary under the circumstances even though hardly anybody will watch it. Same with "a single paragraph of well-written and concise prose" although a few more of us will read that. The main utility of any appearance of communication now is to have somewhere to direct folks who got all worked up without knowing why, so they can allow themselves to get less worked up still without knowing why.

[Fionalein]

8 hours ago, halebore Aeon said:

 But here is the thing, I was actually trying to help. But was practically told that this wasn't enough, as it wasn't "entertaining" or "gripping" enough. What do you expect town hall meetings to be, how do we make a livestream/video of that nature engaging?

The town hall was the wrong choice of medium to point people to for looking stuff up, it simply is:

• not structured
• not easy to navigate
• not legaly binding

That is why everyone but the millenials prefers written documentation.

The town hall was the right thing for LL to do in order calm down the folks... but now they will have to do some extra work to create a documentation.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Fionalein