Chic Aeon Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 33 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: At this point they're in a bit of a pickle. I understood that they originally intended that everybody would agree to the Tilia ToS whether they even used it or not, then they realized lots of folks were spooked by that, so they changed it so people only need to execute the agreement when they're about to do something that will create a USD wallet -- which, of course, the vast majority of SL users never do. And I'm serious: If this had been the plan all along, they should never have made an open-to-all blog post about it. They might have posted a note in some merchant forum and mention it at the Web user group. Making it a big blog post, together with the "everybody must agree" implication, got a big chunk of the population all riled up even though they mostly didn't understand what there was to be riled up about. But too late now: it's like cognitive dissonance or attribution theory or something: the riled-up population has all this cortisol coursing through their veins, there must be some reason for all this arousal and by golly there must be reason to fuss! So the Lab had to talk them down off the ledge. The Town Hall was necessary under the circumstances even though hardly anybody will watch it. Same with "a single paragraph of well-written and concise prose" although a few more of us will read that. The main utility of any appearance of communication now is to have somewhere to direct folks who got all worked up without knowing why, so they can allow themselves to get less worked up still without knowing why. Yes, the "end result" that we now have would have been a better plan overall -- from the beginning, but The Lab isn't known for gauging the mindset of the citizens all that well --- well, pretty much never. There ARE (WERE) some big advantages for Linden Lab with the original "everyone" plan. Very easy to see for anyone who has ever been in business and no need to go into that. The fact that they didn't realize that there are some pretty smart folks here on the forums -- let alone a few attorneys and I would guess a couple of CEOs and such is puzzling, but it happened and will likely happen again. We do fight and bicker here but we also PAY ATTENTION. I am very pleased with how our tiny community came together for the most part and elicited some positive changes in the way Tilia will be rolled out. Most folks in SL will never know, but we will know and "I" at least feel good to have been a part of the change to a more rational plan. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: So the Lab had to talk them down off the ledge. The Town Hall was necessary under the circumstances even though hardly anybody will watch it. Same with "a single paragraph of well-written and concise prose" although a few more of us will read that. The main utility of any appearance of communication now is to have somewhere to direct folks who got all worked up without knowing why, so they can allow themselves to get less worked up still without knowing why. Yes, agreed. I am so excruciatingly bored by Tilia that it's become almost painful just contemplating it. Should anyone ever seek an example of a totally unnecessary, uninteresting, and artificial "crisis" generated by nothing more than poor communications, let them look no further. I look forward to seeing the stake driven into the heart of this one by LL -- if they can ever manage to find a hammer with which to do it -- so that we can move on to other, hopefully more substantive crises. Linden Home trailers, anyone? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 9 hours ago, halebore Aeon said: opaque and pump out updates or something as controversial as this, without our knowledge LL has done exactly this in the past. Chances are they will do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelWales Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) No, I will not use Tilia. I'm just wondering what happens to the funds that are in my Second Life account already. Do I lose what I have invested? No, to this invasion of my privacy. You have my credit details. And you know what? There should be people of all ages on Second Life, those are your future customers, builders and script writers. Not their fault that there are so many creeps on Second Life. Edited July 15, 2019 by RachelWales 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelWales Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 7/12/2019 at 8:51 PM, DilliDallagio said: I realize this comment was not directed to me but it pushed a button so I will say my piece. I am not a Premium Member. I believe that if the service does not officially support my computer platform (linux) with the SL branded viewer that is on par with the Windows platform, I will not get the same level of technical support from Linden Labs that Windows or macOS users get. Sure I can use a TPV but they do not allow one to upload mesh as they do not contain the Havok physics engine code due to licensing restrictions. As a result of not being a Premium Member, I cannot purchase land to pay tier. Not an option. Yes, I have rented from landowners in the past (not this current avatar account but previously). I have a zero dollar balance as I have never intended to use Second Life as real life income. Perhaps some day in the future but as of right now, nope. As a matter of fact, yes my L$ balance is now down to zero because I spent yesterday draining it out by tipping live music venues with the small balance I had in it. I did so because up until earlier today, it was stated that EVERY Second Life resident was going to have to accept the Tilia ToS, which was something I was seriously thinking of not doing. Now that such acceptance is not a concern for those not carrying a US$ balance... well... I guess I will have to start building my L$ balance back up by experiential means. Now, as to your general premise that those who do not buy L$ with fiat currency are not contributing members... I believe you are WAY off the mark. I know many Basic Members, such as myself, who are very active in various groups. They provide customer assistance for those confused about mesh avatars. They help those who feel clueless about how their viewers work with valuable guidance and examples. I have seen Basic Members work as hosts, hostesses, greeters, and tour guides on various sims. Some have graced us with very artistic places built with care and detail strictly because they enjoy doing so. A few may have even touched our hearts and emotions with various other forms of art, including photography or machinima. So, are all those Basic Members not really contributing members? Just something to think about. Time is money too. Contributing talent, skills or just being good company is just as valuable as spending money on venues, products. Can't have one without the other 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, RachelWales said: And you know what? There should be people of all ages on Second Life, those are your future customers, builders and script writers. Not their fault that there are so many creeps on Second Life. If you mean children under the age of 16... hell no. SL is a platform for adults, not children. Always has been, always will be. Teen Grid doesn't count as it was a separate grid. I've raised 6 children, I don't log in to SL to raise more! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelWales Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 Just now, Selene Gregoire said: If you mean children under the age of 16... hell no. SL is a platform for adults, not children. Always has been, always will be. Teen Grid doesn't count as it was a separate grid. I've raised 6 children, I don't log in to SL to raise more! Then don't, do your own thing. Who said you have to raise someone else's children? The 16 to 18 year old cohort is the group that shouldn't be shut out. They spend time and money in digital and a virtual environment could be the future in social media and communication. I didn't mean small children. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 12 minutes ago, RachelWales said: No, I will not use Tilia. I'm just wondering what happens to the funds that are in my Second Life account already. Do I lose what I have invested? No, to this invasion of my privacy. You have my credit details. And you know what? There should be people of all ages on Second Life, those are your future customers, builders and script writers. Not their fault that there are so many creeps on Second Life. See? This is what I mean. Folks all worked up, already clutching a torch in one hand and pitchfork in the other, determined to find a way to somehow be a victim. Oh, muh PRIVACY! All over nothing. Sure, LL bobbled the ball on this, but honest to god, why are so many SL users so... ridiculous? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 17 minutes ago, RachelWales said: No, I will not use Tilia. I'm just wondering what happens to the funds that are in my Second Life account already. Do I lose what I have invested? No, to this invasion of my privacy. You have my credit details. And you know what? There should be people of all ages on Second Life, those are your future customers, builders and script writers. Not their fault that there are so many creeps on Second Life. Read this to see if it even applies to you: https://modemworld.me/2019/07/13/tilia-inc-and-second-life-town-hall-summary/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, RachelWales said: Then don't, do your own thing. Who said you have to raise someone else's children? The 16 to 18 year old cohort is the group that shouldn't be shut out. They spend time and money in digital and a virtual environment could be the future in social media and communication. I didn't mean small children. They are not legal adults in the US. They can't be allowed access to adult things because of federal and state laws. If you want SL to be shut down faster than you can shake a stick at it, go for it. I'll be empathizing with the families of the LL employees as they wait for their loved ones to be released from prison. If that is what you really want, have at it. Count me out. Edited July 15, 2019 by Selene Gregoire 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelWales Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 7/11/2019 at 4:57 AM, EdmundPendragon said: Good morning Qie, After the initial Tilia wave, I thought it had been established while we would have to agree with the Tilia TOS on August 1st, it will only affect those users that take out RL money from SL. That those users that do no take OUT RL money are only affected by checking the Tilia TOS box on August 1st. Has that changed? Thanks, Ed Thanks for explaining this. I read the announcement and the only thing I understood is that you won't be able Linden's in Second Life without Tilia. Guess I just won't bother becoming a vendor, entertainer or any of the other money making things in SL. Money IN, no money OUT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelWales Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: They are not legal adults in the US. They can't be allowed access to adult things because of federal and state laws. If you want SL to be shut down faster than you can shake a stick at it, go for it. I'll be empathizing with the families of the LL employees as they wait for their loved ones to be released from prison. If that is what you really want, have at it. Count me out. Then, you verify age for Adult sites only. In Moderate sites they shouldn't be do anything that would land them in jail. There are other gaming sites on the net that don't exclude age groups. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 They're not "sites" - they are sims (regions if you want to be overly technical) Users below the age of 18/19 are only allowed access to General rated areas and for good reason as even in Moderate areas, some "adult" activities can and do take place, usually "behind closed doors" "Invasion of privacy" - seriously? Sit down, calm down and stow the outrage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelWales Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: See? This is what I mean. Folks all worked up, already clutching a torch in one hand and pitchfork in the other, determined to find a way to somehow be a victim. Oh, muh PRIVACY! All over nothing. Sure, LL bobbled the ball on this, but honest to god, why are so many SL users so... ridiculous? I didn't get that it was for taking money OUT when I was reading the announcement. It wasn't clear to me. Not everyone has time to go to these town hall meetings. I just put some money into my account to spend on products, venues etc. so I was concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, RachelWales said: Then, you verify age for Adult sites only. In Moderate sites they shouldn't be do anything that would land them in jail. There are other gaming sites on the net that don't exclude age groups. LL already does that. SL is NOT a game. It is a creative platform where your imagination is your only limit within the TOS. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelWales Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said: LL already does that. SL is NOT a game. It is a creative platform where your imagination is your only limit within the TOS. Whatever. Moderate and General zones free should be inclusive. Adult zones for over 18. I know that it isn't just a game but you would think that including a younger cohort would be an investment. Last post on this. You will be talking to air from now on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 1 minute ago, RachelWales said: Whatever. Moderate and General zones free should be inclusive. Adult zones for over 18. I know that it isn't just a game but you would think that including a younger cohort would be an investment. Last post on this. You will be talking to air from now on. What part of LL already does all of this do you not comprehend? Apparently all of it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) Frak, nevermind, I misread the date .... Edited July 15, 2019 by Solar Legion 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted McGregor Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: Sure, LL bobbled the ball on this, but honest to god, why are so many SL users so... ridiculous? My guess is you are venting frustration, but you know the answer. LL should immediately have given out notice that nothing can be chosen about Tilia realization and implementation. Then again I notice, while growing older, that it' s common practice to declare someone a nazi these days only because of not having your way and even if only implicated so. And you and I know these users will not have theirs in this.That IS somewhat tiring to see, indeed. Edited July 15, 2019 by TDD123 implication 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionalein Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: ...but honest to god, why are so many SL users so... ridiculous? Because they are average humans, not techies or accountants or lawyers, just plain humans who often get things wrong and behave surprinsingly predictable as a group. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Fionalein said: just plain humans Taste yummy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionalein Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said: Taste yummy! but are unhealthy - think of all that crap they eat - stick with gazelles... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Fionalein said: but are unhealthy - think of all that crap they eat - stick with gazelles... But the offal is the best part! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amina Sopwith Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: But the offal is the best part! Offally good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 22 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said: Offally good. Udder bovine fecal matter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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