Jump to content
  • 0

copying instant messages and sharing them


Question

Recommended Posts

  • 7

To quote the Community Standards ( included by reference in the TOS ) :

Disclosure

Sharing personal information about other users, either directly or indirectly, without their consent—including, but not limited to, gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual orientation, alternate account names (including account statuses, such as whether it is on hold, suspended, or active), and real-world location beyond what is provided by them in their user profile—is not allowed. Except for the purpose of reporting abuse or any violation of policies to Linden Lab, the remote monitoring, posting or sharing of conversations without a participant’s consent are prohibited.

That refers to ALL sharing of conversations in SL.  It cannot limit what may be shared outside of SL, although your personal code of ethics should be consulted. ;)

Edited by Rolig Loon
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2
23 minutes ago, Tera Jules said:

You are all wrong because it says in the TOS  that  for " Protection" and  reporting to Linden Labs" copy pasteing is allowed,  though what they term " protection" is unclear   i have read the TOS  and it states that haveing that you copy paste conversations on your profile informing everyone that you do so before they message you weather they read the message on your profile or not is the same as not reading TOS  it still counts as being read and allows copy/pasteing and shareing  to be done.

It makes no difference what anyone puts in their profile. 

Copying IMs and pasting them into anything in SL except an AR or Support ticket is against the TOS.

PERIOD.  DOUBLE-STOP.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2
1 hour ago, Tera Jules said:

No it's not it's to legally inform you that they do so and even if not read it is like TOS  being ignored and clicked ti get on with the game just because your uninformed or ignorant doesnt make it illegal or wrong

Lul, no.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1
8 hours ago, Tera Jules said:

No it's not it's to legally inform you that they do so and even if not read it is like TOS  being ignored and clicked ti get on with the game just because your uninformed or ignorant doesnt make it illegal or wrong

Ignorance of the law is never an excuse.  No where does it say anyone has to READ your profile.  Therefore, even if it were allowed and those moronic statements were legal, it still would not be INFORMED CONSENT.  

However, I do love when I read that in someone's profile as it tells me who to avoid.  I prefer intelligent people.

You would be one to avoid.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
On 3/20/2019 at 5:59 PM, Rolig Loon said:

To quote the Community Standards ( included by reference in the TOS ) :

Disclosure

Sharing personal information about other users, either directly or indirectly, without their consent—including, but not limited to, gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual orientation, alternate account names (including account statuses, such as whether it is on hold, suspended, or active), and real-world location beyond what is provided by them in their user profile—is not allowed. Except for the purpose of reporting abuse or any violation of policies to Linden Lab, the remote monitoring, posting or sharing of conversations without a participant’s consent are prohibited.

That refers to ALL sharing of conversations in SL.  It cannot limit what may be shared outside of SL, although your personal code of ethics should be consulted. ;)

so if someone IM's me a joke i can share it as long as it doesnt have any real life info?
[10:28] Ven the Meerkat (venkellie): a human and a tiny walks into a pub, the human says "cool pub" and the tiny looks at the human and says "pub? thought this was a nightclub"
Sorry lame joke, just typed it out here as a point to my question. So if someone IM's me a joke like that can i share it with others without the permission of the one who sent me the joke?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

I didn't make the rule. I didn't even claim that I agreed with it necessarily.  All I did was answer the question.  :)

I have rarely found a rule that made sense in all circumstances. That's why most systems give the people who are supposed to enforce rules a bit of leeway about when it's OK to look the other way.  In this case, Linden Lab wrote the TOS and the Community Standards with usual legal ambiguity, as in "These Standards set out actions that could result in restrictions on your access to the Service, up to and including account termination."  -- which means that they might not, too.  Almost certainly not, if nobody complains.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
1 hour ago, VenKellie said:

so if someone IM's me a joke i can share it as long as it doesnt have any real life info?
[10:28] Ven the Meerkat (venkellie): a human and a tiny walks into a pub, the human says "cool pub" and the tiny looks at the human and says "pub? thought this was a nightclub"
Sorry lame joke, just typed it out here as a point to my question. So if someone IM's me a joke like that can i share it with others without the permission of the one who sent me the joke?

Nit picking and hunting for edge cases isn't helpful. If you copy paste chat from anyone in SL, anywhere in SL, ever and get reported for it .. The Linden who punts your account into the sin-bin won't care about context.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

I will read "the remote monitoring, posting or sharing of conversations without a participant’s consent are prohibited."  where conversations here refer to conversations that contain participant's personal information. Otherwise, it does not make sense to have local chat.

I also think the word "remote' is redundant. Or I will rewrite it like this: "collecting and sharing participant's personal information without participant's consents are prohibited."

But I am not a lawyer! LOL Someone from LL should answer this question.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
34 minutes ago, SoniaVileva said:

I will read "the remote monitoring, posting or sharing of conversations without a participant’s consent are prohibited."  where conversations here refer to conversations that contain participant's personal information. Otherwise, it does not make sense to have local chat.

I also think the word "remote' is redundant. Or I will rewrite it like this: "collecting and sharing participant's personal information without participant's consents are prohibited."

But I am not a lawyer! LOL Someone from LL should answer this question.

it has nothing to do with personal info in chat or not, you'r simply not allowed to use anything that is said without permission in SL.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
1 hour ago, SoniaVileva said:

Thank you for your opinion, but I still think it is better to have someone from LL to answer this. What you are suggesting, does not make sense.

If you would like clarification on anything in the TOS, I'd suggest you open a Support ticket.  LL doesn't pay attention to every thread here in the forums and often won't answer many questions here anyway.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Can you show me where it was being said which covers ALL conversations without the context of personal information?

Even the rule being quoted here state very clearly that there are exceptions and conditions.  I do agree that if someone sends you a private IM addressed only to you, it should not be shared without your permission, but you have to be allowed to monitor it, in order to respond to it.   I am more interested in the interpretation of this particular rule in the context of public discussion as the original question also refers to local chat.

So if we use this public discussion in this forum here as an example, I believe that personal information is 'protected' under this ToS rule, since this forum uses username that can be traced back inside SL.

From this, if someone shares personal information to reveal the RL identity of anyone here in this forum, I believe it will be a violation too. But if you are quoting what I said publicly in this forum, I don't think you need to ask my permission. (as no one did here when they quote since it does not contain any personal information) So, I think the context and conditions matter, they are not loopholes, they are necessary to facilitate discussions.

Anyway, this is only my worthless opinion, I think a support ticket can be helpful.

 

 
 

Edited by SoniaVileva
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Sonia,

No.  This forum is a public discussion area.  We all know that anything we say here can be seen by anyone.  The ToS restriction clearly doesn't apply.  (Well, except that we can't share personal information we happen to know about others, without their permission.)  But anyone can quote anything someone else says here.

Let's discuss what LL means by "remote monitoring".

If I am talking to someone in local chat, I know that anyone who's closer than 20 meters can hear what I say (more exactly, see what I type).  Nobody beyond that distance can hear me.  So, I have an "expectation of privacy" except for people in that 20 meter circle.

Now, if someone that I chatted with logs my chat, and then shares it with someone who was not present, and they do that without my permission, they have violated that expectation of privacy...and violated the ToS.  Logging and sharing chat is a form of "remote monitoring".

Devices can monitor local chat, and relay it to someone who is not present.  This too violates ToS, and is the most obvious form of "remote monitoring".

IMs are are like phone calls.  You are only communicating with the person (or persons, in a conference call IM).  You have the expectation that nobody else is privy to your conversation.  If someone copies your IM conversation and provides it to someone else without your permission, that is also a ToS violation.

It's really not that hard.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
23 hours ago, SoniaVileva said:

I also think the word "remote' is redundant.

They refer to scripted objects that will forward chat happening in on place on the grid to someone in another place on the grid - whether known or not ("not" meaning the spy tools).

Hahaha, What @Lindal Kidd says. ~crawls under her desk and focusses on productive work for a change~

Edited by Alyona Su
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
On 4/6/2019 at 12:46 PM, VenKellie said:

so if someone IM's me a joke i can share it as long as it doesnt have any real life info?
[10:28] Ven the Meerkat (venkellie): a human and a tiny walks into a pub, the human says "cool pub" and the tiny looks at the human and says "pub? thought this was a nightclub"
Sorry lame joke, just typed it out here as a point to my question. So if someone IM's me a joke like that can i share it with others without the permission of the one who sent me the joke?

I think if you simply retell the joke there's no issue.  If you copy and paste the IM including name it becomes sketchy. 

I believe the rule applies to passing information told to you that they believed should remain secret.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
14 minutes ago, Doris Johnsky said:

I believe the rule applies to passing information told to you that they believed should remain secret.  

That's where things get dicey.  Guessing what's in someone else's mind is a risky business, so you may assume that it's OK to pass along something that you copy/paste from chat because it's not "secret".  The only way to be sure that it's not is to ask.  In general, though, you're right that 

17 minutes ago, Doris Johnsky said:

I think if you simply retell the joke there's no issue.

If that's all you say, you haven't identified it as something that another person said, so you can probably get past the TOS restriction.  Still, strictly speaking, that portion of the TOS is there to protect both privacy and intellectual property.  When in doubt, it's probably best to quote someone only when you have permission.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
On 2/13/2021 at 8:04 PM, Rolig Loon said:

That's where things get dicey.  Guessing what's in someone else's mind is a risky business, so you may assume that it's OK to pass along something that you copy/paste from chat because it's not "secret".  The only way to be sure that it's not is to ask.  In general, though, you're right that 

If that's all you say, you haven't identified it as something that another person said, so you can probably get past the TOS restriction.  Still, strictly speaking, that portion of the TOS is there to protect both privacy and intellectual property.  When in doubt, it's probably best to quote someone only when you have permission.  

I've never repeated anything in IM unless the person who told me said I could. And even then if it was about someone else I won't.

I got in heat with management because someone told them something I said in an IM. It wasn't derogatory, just critical.  Ended up losing a job over it.  

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
On 4/16/2019 at 1:36 PM, Ethan Paslong said:

you'r simply not allowed to use anything that is said without permission in SL.

Hear, hear. It is what it is. 

Its as simple as that. 

Do     not     do     it     is what those who care about you would tell you.   

And yah that profile disclaimer or statement thing is just so totally completely N/A. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • -11
3 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

ehm... no
Users never, NEVER, can change TOS. Those written statements in profiles are nothing than wasting space.

No it's not it's to legally inform you that they do so and even if not read it is like TOS  being ignored and clicked ti get on with the game just because your uninformed or ignorant doesnt make it illegal or wrong

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...