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LittleMe Jewell

The purpose of a clothing Demo?

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I'm curious as to people's view of what the clothing demo is for - what they use it for?

I've always used demos to not only verify the fit through different animations, but to also see how specific colors/patterns look on me and to gauge the creator's texturing ability - because sometimes the color/pattern of an item does not match exactly what is shown on the ad board.  However, over the last few months, I am coming across more and more demos that are basically only for checking the fit of an item.  The demo will not actually be textured with any actual pattern/color that the real item would come in - see images below.  I realize that it costs more money for a creator to basically upload all or some of their normal textures with 'demo' stamped on them or something.  I suppose that is also the reason that some choose instead to attach a box or ring to the demo, or to use a timeout script.

Do you primarily use a demo for fit only?  If you don't, what do you do when you get a demo like the ones shown below, that contains no real color or pattern on them?

image.png.398c8192cf703596902a7b45f34b3fde.pngimage.png.005520243edbf5ed3e5277a201449ba3.png       

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3 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I'm curious as to people's view of what the clothing demo is for - what they use it for?

I've always used demos to not only verify the fit through different animations, but to also see how specific colors/patterns look on me and to gauge the creator's texturing ability - because sometimes the color/pattern of an item does not match exactly what is shown on the ad board.  However, over the last few months, I am coming across more and more demos that are basically only for checking the fit of an item.  The demo will not actually be textured with any actual pattern/color that the real item would come in - see images below.  I realize that it costs more money for a creator to basically upload all or some of their normal textures with 'demo' stamped on them or something.  I suppose that is also the reason that some choose instead to attach a box or ring to the demo, or to use a timeout script.

Do you primarily use a demo for fit only?  If you don't, what do you do when you get a demo like the ones shown below, that contains no real color or pattern on them?

image.png.398c8192cf703596902a7b45f34b3fde.pngimage.png.005520243edbf5ed3e5277a201449ba3.png       

I use the demo for both fit and to see the textures and color options, IF i get one that is NOT textured, I simply will not buy the product. 

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The left demo is always an upset to me too. I will never understand why anyone sees it as being hard to make a demo look presentable, it is selling your product. Often is the case that I buy the colour shown in the demo, because if not a standard colour it opens my eyes to the joy of it, so it has lead to more purchasing than intended prior.

The cost of 10L vs losing a customer is too high a price to pay IMO, also if they are just reusing the same demo every time, as it looks there on the left, you don't see any of the bake etc that you do on the right. If it is mesh, add rings, add a box, do some branding not like no one has never tpd to another location or stood looking great in a demo and gotten another potential customers attention. Also enticing me with the fatpack options but making it clear that is what they are is an upsell as well. 

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  1. Will it fit / Do I look good in it?
  2. What colors does the HUD offer?

The creators that offer all the colors instead of only 1 are the heroes we need.

The creators that offer a blank canvas and think it's a justifiable demo = no sale.

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My main reason for getting a demo is for fit purposes,  no matter how great the texturing is if the fit isn't right then i have no interest in it at all..  I need the demo to make sure that any parts poking through can be fixed by my alpha sections on my body hud.. and if they can't then I won't waste my money on that item.  It is nice however, to be able to see the actual texture of the item in a demo.. it helps in the over all decision to buy or not.  

Having said that, as a creator,  when I make a demo, I use one of the texture choices as is, only with demo stamped on it somewhere,  I try not to put the word demo in a place that will destroy the over all look of the item.. but still be clear that it is a demo only.. Most of the outfits I put out come with a texture hud and several options of colour choices, but I do not make a demo hud.  reason being, to make a demo hud would be like making the entire outfit twice.. once with demo and the final sales version.. and to be honest, with prices being what they are in SL for an outfit these days even with a texture hud (meaning low due to so much competition and folks wanting inexpensive items)  I couldn't charge enough for the final product to cover my time and cost of making a full demo hud.  

I know there will be a lot of folks who like to have everything in the demo,  but I doubt they would be willing to pay a higher price for the final product just so they could get a full texture hud in the demo.  (extra cost being time, and texture uploads which could be considerable depending on the outfit)

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I guess I should add that the demo on the right is not a demo of any actual color of the dress.  The dress in question does not come in that color at all.  It came in a variety of patterns and a set that was mostly solid but a very obvious linen pattern and another set of a solid but shimmery pattern.  So even the right demo was not a color/pattern of anything that could actually be bought.

I've gotten demos before that were only one of the available colors or patterns and did not have a HUD to change it.  While I might like to see all available options, I don't really have a huge problem with not getting to.  However, I do want to see at least one of the true actual colors or patterns.

I fully understand the cost issue, but I think I'd even rather have a ring around my chest or stomach if it would let me see something that really represents the product.  

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5 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I guess I should add that the demo on the right is not a demo of any actual color of the dress.  The dress in question does not come in that color at all.  It came in a variety of patterns and a set that was mostly solid but a very obvious linen pattern and another set of a solid but shimmery pattern.  So even the right demo was not a color/pattern of anything that could actually be bought.

I've gotten demos before that were only one of the available colors or patterns and did not have a HUD to change it.  While I might like to see all available options, I don't really have a huge problem with not getting to.  However, I do want to see at least one of the true actual colors or patterns.

I fully understand the cost issue, but I think I'd even rather have a ring around my chest or stomach if it would let me see something that really represents the product.  

 

I don't try a lot of demos as I usually am wearing blogger items, but I do agree it is BETTER to have the garment with original texture and the word demo on it.   THAT as a consumer. 

BUT --- LOL.  A couple of months ago I made a ton of clothes for Sansar. They are all free there now, but they were not at the beginning. I was also pretty much the only person making demo garments for each item (I think there was one other person with a couple of items; that hasn't changed much).   Things are different over there so the fact that I even HAD demos was a biggie .   I didn't make demos for each texture or even use the particular texture but instead a standard beige fabric with DEMO written on it.   There are no costs for uploads in Sansar and personally I doubt that it is the 10 lindens (or sometimes 40 lindens as quite a few creators use four textures (or more) standard for their garments that keeps SL creators from have more complex demos. For "me" it was all about the extra work.

 

I was also selling my things at about a third of the going rate.  So I figured I had already done my best to be a "good" seller.   Then the pricing structure changed and so I made them all free. I was mostly just enjoying the process.   

SO -- for some creators here in SL,  it may just be that they don't care how much they sell. I know one clothing designer who has NO demos at all (not a new store) and you just buy off the vendor photos. Presumably "someone" buys something --- but maybe not. For some people it might just be all about the fun of having a little clothing shop and feeling like a fashion designer. We are each here for our own reasons. 

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When i first started, as both creator and buyer, a demo to me was all about the fit. As already mentioned, no fit, no sale, don't matter how fantastic a texture might be. Over time though that has changed for me. 

As a creator, when i first started out with mesh i put out demo's which were just like image 1, just a blank texture with demo stamped all over it. That then became an actual texture in dark brown or black but still with demo and my logo stamped on it. However, I had complaints that the texture was too dark, so i switched to an actual texture  that was part of the fat pack, still kept the demo stamps on it. That still wasn't good enough for some folk, I had IM's and reviews on the demos saying the demo stamp stopped them seeing the detail and that they wanted to see an actual texture that they would be getting, so it was time to switch again. I stopped adding the demo stamps and put out a version of the fat packs but with the timed scripts in both clothing and huds (yes the horror). This worked for a while, 1 IM changed it a little because they mentioned about clothes disappearing whilst they TP'd around or went AFK. So i dropped the timed from the clothes and kept it just in the hud. This way all textures can be seen and tested, and there's no need to worry about modesty. 

I've tried to listen to customers needs & wants over the years and think I've sort of gotten to a happy medium-ish. If i could script then there are changes I would make, but I can't, so I won't be making them any time soon. It turns out that customer needs are my needs too when i shop. I wont buy hair or skin if i can't see the real color or texture, and i wont buy clothes or accessories either. With all our different systems, graphics settings & environments, not all textures are gonna look the same to everyone or look like the photo every time, so I want to see it for myself. But I don't think there's any way a demo is ever gonna please everyone all of the time.

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I use attached boxes on my demos, and include the full HUD.  That way customers can check the fit and all the colours/textures before they buy.  To me this method is the most similar to real life shopping where you'd expect to be able to check the fit and see if the colours suit you.  I don't use timeout scripts because I find them personally irritating.  The only time I have a complaint about a demo is when I foolishly leave a box over a sleeve or pant leg, making it impossible to see the fit.  Then at least I can fix my own mistake.

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Depends a lot... for most cloth I am happy with an untextured demo - if the creator however tries to sell materials to me I want to take a look with different graphics settings on. Same goes with unrealistic render pictures of items obvioulsy not made in SL - in that case I want to see the SL version of the texture.

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With demos I always check:
1. How it fits in various poses, dances, AO animations, walking, even running.
2. Texturing. That's very important too for me. I want to see the real thing in the demo.

If those two pass the tests then I'm ready to buy.
No demo, no buy.

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I use demos for both fit and textures. Sometimes textures look great in an ad due to good lighting or materials, but look bland and flat in-world unless your lighting is similar (which honestly most people don't use shadows and different projector lighting when just walking around, I think most of us use an even and shadowless lighting such as Firestorm's built-in CalWL setting). 

If a demo I try doesn't have a texture on it and is only for testing fit, I'm honestly a little hesitant to purchase unless it's from a designer I know well and trust to provide a good quality product. But even then I feel like it's kind of dishonest in a way, to put demos out with no textures because it feels like they're trying to deceive you into buying a product without being completely transparent about what you're getting (which has happened to me before, especially with mesh kits). It would be like going to a store irl and ordering a pair of boots in what's labeled as a metallic red, only being able to see black in-store, and finding out once you receive the red ones that they're actually pink, made out of a different material, and there are no returns.

I really just think that the best creators include some kind of texture on their demos even if it's the basic plain option for what they're selling. I tend to trust transparency a lot more than faith in the designer when it comes to non-returnable product purchases (which is pretty much everything unless it's from a gacha). It literally costs an extra $10L to upload one more texture with the words DEMO on it. They don't need to include every color option in a demo, but definitely at least one.

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I do most of my shopping on Market Place and go through a process before purchasing. 

1. I look at the pictures. If there aren't enough or they're low quality (particularly no inside shots of houses) then I move onto something else. 

2. Then I look at the demo and decide whether I'm satisfied or not; primarily I'm looking for fit but also the colours and textures. Demos where you can test product features and change the texture colours go down the best. If there is no demo then I don't even consider buying. 

3. If I'm happy with the demo I'll then consider the price, weigh up whether it's good value for money or whether I really want or need it. 

If it passes all 3 then I buy it. 

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On 1/20/2019 at 2:37 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

I'm curious as to people's view of what the clothing demo is for - what they use it for?

  • Check the fit. If it doesn't fit well in non-animated "system" stand: no-sale.
  • Quality of textures. If it doesn't look at least half;-decent: no-sale.
  • COMPLEXITY SCORE. I *always* want to see the complexity score (for anything I attach, not just clothes). Unreasonable score: no-sale.
  • Oh - and obviously: no demo: no-sale. LOL
Edited by Alyona Su
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On 2/6/2019 at 1:34 PM, Alyona Su said:
  • Check the fit. If it doesn't fit well in non-animated "system" stand: no-sale.
  • Quality of textures. If it doesn't look at least half;-decent: no-sale.
  • COMPLEXITY SCORE. I *always* want to see the complexity score (for anything I attach, not just clothes). Unreasonable score: no-sale.
  • Oh - and obviously: no demo: no-sale. LOL

I don't get why people don't put more informations on their marketplace listings beside the minimum required by the system.

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40 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

I don't get why people don't put more informations on their marketplace listings beside the minimum required by the system.

I agree. SL is my entertainment and so I have a lot of money to burn every month. So many creators have no idea of the lost sale simply because of lack of information and lack of some way to get or see a demo. I'd really love to see "Complexity Score" in the area where "Prims" is shown. Though I've seen some (extremely few) creators have placed that into their descriptions. Yes, creators: Complexity Score is a selling point.

One thing I have recently been checking that is not in my list is to check LOD factors (!). I was at a place and saw a nude person (unusual for the place) and when I cammed-in a dress appeared. I thought "slow rez" - when I released my camera to default their dress disappeared again. Sure enough: I cammed around and anyone more than 30 meters away will turn the dress into the Emporer's New Clothes LOL

So I now add that reason to my "no demo, no sale" mantra!

Edited by Alyona Su
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10 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

. I'd really love to see "Complexity Score" in the area where "Prims" is shown. Though I've seen some (extremely few) creators have placed that into their descriptions. Yes, creators: Complexity Score is a selling point.

I raised this at the Web UG meeting a cpl months back in regards to having it added in as a field in the listings. Basically it got laughed at and shut down by other creators at the meeting as being too much of an unreliable number

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31 minutes ago, HunniHope said:

I raised this at the Web UG meeting a cpl months back in regards to having it added in as a field in the listings. Basically it got laughed at and shut down by other creators at the meeting as being too much of an unreliable number

And it IS an unreliable number.. the total complexity for any given time changes constantly depending on a number of factors.. Fact is even if you yourself are very conscious of your complexity numbers..  most folks are not.. and despite your efforts, when you go somewhere like a club or busy spot, others complexity numbers affect that final number and not just yours.. just watch those numbers change sometime to see just how unreliable they are.

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6 minutes ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

And it IS an unreliable number.. the total complexity for any given time changes constantly depending on a number of factors.. Fact is even if you yourself are very conscious of your complexity numbers..  most folks are not.. and despite your efforts, when you go somewhere like a club or busy spot, others complexity numbers affect that final number and not just yours.. just watch those numbers change sometime to see just how unreliable they are.

In a perfect world, they would just remove that entire system and burn it down in a blaze of ... okay, no glory, just a nice big blazing bonfire.

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I wouldn't buy the product from a demo like that.  I wouldn't even buy an item where the creator doesn't include a texture change HUD or only includes one colour in the demo.  Not sure why this is becoming more common either but it does seem to be.

I use the demo to check fit, that I like the textures and see if the textures suit my tastes for that kind of outfit.  There are as important as the fit for me.

I don't like timed demos either because it often takes me more than the limit to weed out issues with fit.

I am OK with a band around the waist but prefer the over-the-head logo variety.

Edited by Gabriele Graves
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1530 not spent, the difference in single to Fatpack

 

A current example and it taps into things mentioned....

A dress I just saw was mildly 'themey' that time of the year and all. Not so much that it was unwearable any other time of year.

The ad stated that there were many colours available in the fatpack and that it was also "customisable"

So I say to myself "OOO maybe I can turn off the themey part' 

Then it states that the SINGLE colours also have as many colours as the fatpack!

Plot thickens. 

So I get the demo, the fit is great, I go to check the hud... no hud.

I look again, no hud the only colour available is black with demo writing and a prim etc, so that is ok, the texture work looks decent, and I don't actually mind one colour demos usually if it is just one solid colour option.

So now I wonder, how exactly do the other colours included in singles come into play, and I look at the display and there is a mesh version of the dress rezzed, and it shows that every second part is a second colour. Ok but can I hide parts. 

So being all knowledge :P I go into edit, choose select face as that is the easiest way to see how the assignment of textures have been allocated (possibly because not always do people utilise the options and so on) but it shows me very clearly that the parts I want to not show are part of the same assignment as parts that would need to stay. 

I think the dress is cute, it comes in Slink Hourglass the demo fits well and I purchase the single, at this point though, I think black is my best bet here because I still do not really know how the colours options are going to work, because the example could be showing what i can do with fatpack and not single, maybe the single only changes one section like trim.

I go home, unpack and the hud is just colour swatches, I click and every second part changes to that colour, so really I now have 20+ versions of this dress for a single purchase. I am not sure if I could have ever hidden parts, or if by customise it just means I could mix up more than two colours and select which face to assign what colour to. 

I would have fatpacked if I had more information, but there was nothing, and no demonstration of the HUD even on the ad or on the wall would be helpful to see. 

They got a purchase, but not the better of the two.

Even a picture of the HUD and its possibilities would have created a fatpack sale, I accept not wanting to create all textures with demo etc, and the non trust many have in just prims, but even a NON working hud again to show me what I can look forward to would have won the day here.

Edited by Sasy Scarborough
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If a creator doesn't want to waste their time making a proper demo then I, as a customer, don't want to waste my Lindens on their creation. It's that simple for me.

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I just use for fit. I can tell from looking at the item if I'm going to like it, and I know everything will look different in different windlight settings - but I find a LOT of people are sloppy about the fit on certain areas - not accounting for it actually being fitmesh and someone having sliders outside the range they presume...

Most of what I buy is from fullperms shops anyway - and I retexture.

The typical 'fatpack' has about the same price as the typical fullperm kit, except the second one comes with mod permissions... so it's better.

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap

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