Remedies to declining SL?

[Janet Voxel]

2 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

No, no, no, no... that Forbes guy said so, too, because he was at one frigging concert, which blew his mind and probably other body parts, because he had absolutely no clue what modern media can do. 

Besides that, SL sex is de ebil, as we all know.

Could've at least brought up Animal Crossing.

You know.....like he has a clue?

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

SL sex is de ebil, as we all know.

I can haz ebil?

[Beth Macbain]

8 hours ago, animats said:

... words ...

Is it possible to have sex in whatever this thing is? The big TEEN emblem on it says no. 

This will be a new shiny thing for a minute then it will fade away.

... pulling this one out again...

[DeepBlueJoy]

On 12/22/2018 at 10:56 PM, Bree Giffen said:

SL needs a reboot. Not a Sansar reboot but an SL reboot. Some might say that SL has already made a huge leap in the past few years. Everything made out of prims and system avatars have changed to mesh produced with outside programs. That's quite a sea change. The problem still remains that SL is too complicated. There are just too many mouse clicks needed to do things. There are a lot of tutorials but a good design needs to be intuitive. The mesh rebirth seems to show that SL can survive a reboot. This idea needs something more though. It needs all the building tools to be built into the viewer again. An easy to use 3d -creation tool built into SL with animation, sound and scripting. I think that's asking a bit much of LL though. 

Yeah, in my early days in SL the only reason I did not leave is that I found people I liked and really wanted to be around.  That and the lovely places like Whimsy Kaboom and Inspire Space Park that were (and remain) just beautiful. 

I'm not a big game player and I had just quit Facebook, so there was a social hole in my online life.  I have decent computer skills... I was using computers before there were sophisticated visual interfaces, but in actuality, SL comes very close to that experience in a lot of ways.  In order to be usable to any real degree, you have to be persistent about acquiring a skill set... and it's not one that translates that well to anything else - even my hubby (a professional techie) who has some decent gaming experiences finds that he had a learning curve...  That is NOT a good sign.

I came really close to leaving a bunch of times.  The day I logged in and was looking down on the top of my head and could not fix it... that day had me in tears and I was 'this' close to just saying F-this.  That day I found firestorm island and help and also met someone who is still a great friend -- someone who has helped me a great deal over the years. (I will be forever grateful to the unknown person in the first couple days in SL who converted me to firestorm)

It is too hard to learn.  It is not intuitive.  Not everyone here really wants to have a science and computing project. Learning to WALK should not require the effort it does.  Some people just come to be social and wear pretty clothes and live in a pretty pixel environment... but just learning to wear clothes requires learning.

Take my mom... no, no, you can't have her, even thou her capacity to annoy is legendary! But she's a great example.  She's older, but she's bright and curious.  My mom loves the beauty and creativity I've shared with her, though she really isn't a techie. She would probably do more on SL than she does if she wasn't so intimidated and frustrated by the learning curve.  Since we are in two different countries, I cannot give her hands on teaching... But that's the problem. Were it not for us helping each other, this place would be seriously not fun.  When I am helping others, I remember that frustration myself.  At times, I (try to) help someone I know just know that I won't be seeing them again.

Then, there's the demand on resources.  I've a decent computer with dedicated graphics.  My husband has a fabulous gaming computer.  Both of us find that things bog down at times.  I remember the prior (decent work grade workstation) that I had before... it just stalled. 

Yes, anyone who wants to run around in an editable and creative dynamic environment like SL must do some learning and there must be some degree of computing demands... but SL could be at least a LITTLE easier to START to use. 

I often liken things with computers to driving vs customizing one's own vehicle and/or becoming an automotive engineer. 

Everyone in SL needs to be able to 'drive' without it requiring the engineering degree.  Some of us want to be weekend dabblers and that's fine... a handful of us want to be builders and engineers... and that's awesome... but I think SL would grow more if it were overlayed with more of the 'driver grade' experience.

I don't think SL is going to die soon... because, like the internet, there's enough commerce here to pay for things... for now, anyway.  I do think it would grow a lot more if it were at least a bit more user friendly.  I think a lot of people who are using zoom and other interfaces would be here during this nasty pandemic were it a bit easier to use.

I do have to say one thing... I'm glad it's not utterly simple. (I know, it's a bit selfish of me!!) but I think that it weeds out some of the people i come here to avoid.  When I meet a person who has a decent grasp of SL's tools, I know I've met someone with a bit of determination, some intelligence and the ability to do some problem solving. 

Any idiot can use Facebook.  It takes a special kind of idiot to use SL!!🤩🐱 

I guess that makes most of you lot my kind of idiot!  🖖

Peace,

Blue

[Lindal Kidd]

Considering that the OP started this thread a year and a half ago, I think it has pretty much disproved their thesis.

[Mollymews]

seems Linden have run out of server space for new regions

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

just to stir the pot and keep this ancient thread alive.

[JanuarySwan]

On 5/13/2020 at 11:51 PM, animats said:

Unlike the other wannabe virtual worlds, Epic has huge resources. Fortnite has 10 million concurrent users and Epic has several billion in cash. They have licensing deals with Disney, and can use most of the Disney/Marvel/Pixar/Lucasfilm characters in world. They know how to make low-lag online worlds. That the trade press sees them zeroing in on Linden Lab's territory is a big deal.

The Forbes article makes an interesting point. Fortnite's world is cartoonish. Not because Epic couldn't make it realistic. Look at Unreal Engine demos; they have the technology. It's a style choice they made. The Forbes writer sees this as a plus for Epic. Facebook, with the defunct Facebook Spaces and the promised Facebook Horizon, went that way too, going even further to legless characters. VRchat is also cartoony.. Many people are more comfortable with a cartoon-like avatar, apparently. 

Cartoon avatars?  I'm surprized that cartoon avatars would be liked.  I looked at that party or concert picture of Fornite Party Royale and the avatars didn't even look like avatars.  

Why would 10 million users want avatars that look like the attached photo below which most artists and art connoisseurs would not be interested in.  Is it because you can play Fortnite Party Royale on a phone perhaps?   What's the hidden catch not spoken of here?  Phone App maybe because the avatar below looks kind of like a Macy's Day Float or a balloon?  

Edited May 15, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[animats]

13 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

What's the hidden catch not spoken of here? 

That it's one click away for umpteen million Fortnite players, probably. That's Epic's idea of the metaverse - easy access.

Also, no idea what their retention is. Sansar got a few hundred users for a few hours when they had some popular DJ. Fortnite got up to 45 million once that way. But then everybody left. That's the trouble with running a performance venue - the venue itself is not an attraction, and the people running the show demand substantial payment.

[JanuarySwan]

28 minutes ago, animats said:

That it's one click away for umpteen million Fortnite players, probably. That's Epic's idea of the metaverse - easy access.

Also, no idea what their retention is. Sansar got a few hundred users for a few hours when they had some popular DJ. Fortnite got up to 45 million once that way. But then everybody left. That's the trouble with running a performance venue - the venue itself is not an attraction, and the people running the show demand substantial payment.

Easy access, yes it does have that.  It plays on just everything including phones.   I just looked it up.

The avatars are frankly horrible.  I wouldn't pay for that, not a single dime.  

It's probably popular not for it's artistic anything but simply because it runs on just about everything and/or even simply because it runs.  

[JanuarySwan]

On 5/13/2020 at 11:51 PM, animats said:

Fortnite has 10 million concurrent users and Epic has several billion in cash. They have licensing deals with Disney, and can use most of the Disney/Marvel/Pixar/Lucasfilm characters in world. They know how to make low-lag online worlds. That the trade press sees them zeroing in on Linden Lab's territory is a big deal.

The other catch though is Fortnite sells toys of it's avatars and all kinds of other real life goods.  I was wondering why it has "several billion in cash".  They are probably planning on making Star Wars action hero type real life toys from their avatars then along with the other companies listed above.  Fortnite has a real life toy market.  

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&sxsrf=ALeKk01N1TfHM97PkozAQi-5qkRC5D_Rbg%3A1589588628326&source=hp&biw=1120&bih=626&ei=lDK_XtaNEYKStQW-6pPICw&q=fornite+toys&oq=fornite+toys&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoHCCMQ6gIQJzoECCMQJzoCCAA6BAgAEB46BggAEAgQHlD0EliYK2ChL2gBcAB4AIABggGIAfoJkgEEMi4xMJgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nsAEK&sclient=img&ved=0ahUKEwjWp5yMj7fpAhUCSa0KHT71BLkQ4dUDCAc&uact=5

[Mollymews]

1 hour ago, animats said:

That it's one click away for umpteen million Fortnite players, probably. That's Epic's idea of the metaverse - easy access.

Also, no idea what their retention is. Sansar got a few hundred users for a few hours when they had some popular DJ. Fortnite got up to 45 million once that way. But then everybody left. That's the trouble with running a performance venue - the venue itself is not an attraction, and the people running the show demand substantial payment.

yes, people come for the show in these cases

Wookey Sansar seems to be going down this path.  I read that Philip Rosedale has also now got a new beta up for something similar

there is quite a big market for real world like entertainment simulations.  3D can be an extension of the pay-per-view model - both TV and real world concert venue. Go to concert, get a seat in the stalls (a public shard).  Book/pay for a box in the stadium(a private shard) invite your friends into the box

there are already these kind of things, just not yet fully in 3D simulation.  Pay-per-view TV of sporting events for example.  Others are freeview to account holders. Like final tables of major online poker tournaments. Lots of people log in just to watch it play out

also just recently with motor racing being cancelled there are a lot people watching iRacing.  Real world race drivers from Indycars, Formula One, etc competing online against each other in race car simulators. Millions of people logging in to watch them

in NZ, the Auckland museum (VR goggles) pay-per-view Antartica simulation was very popular. The venue was booked out for every showing. People of all ages attended

i think that as residents (pioneers even) of 3D virtual worlds we tend to be more inclined toward active participation. Like we are the player, the driver, the concert artist, etc.  When there are far more people who prefer to be passive. Just to sit in the stalls, in their best  3D attire, watching and enjoying the show

 

edit add

i add on what makes 3D different from 2D (TV). In 3D we can change the camera view. We can direct in real time what we see and from what camera position.  For example we can click on a race car driver and see the race from their pov. Reverse cam and see the car behind us. We can click on a performer (guitarist or vocalist for example) and see the concert as the performer sees it. And so on

Edited May 16, 2020 by Mollymews

[DeepBlueJoy]

26 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

The other catch though is Fortnite sells toys of it's avatars and all kinds of other real life goods.  I was wondering why it has "several billion in cash".  They are probably planning on making Star Wars action hero type real life toys from their avatars then along with the other companies listed above.  Fortnite has a real life toy market.  

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&sxsrf=ALeKk01N1TfHM97PkozAQi-5qkRC5D_Rbg%3A1589588628326&source=hp&biw=1120&bih=626&ei=lDK_XtaNEYKStQW-6pPICw&q=fornite+toys&oq=fornite+toys&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoHCCMQ6gIQJzoECCMQJzoCCAA6BAgAEB46BggAEAgQHlD0EliYK2ChL2gBcAB4AIABggGIAfoJkgEEMi4xMJgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nsAEK&sclient=img&ved=0ahUKEwjWp5yMj7fpAhUCSa0KHT71BLkQ4dUDCAc&uact=5

Betamax won. Wait, no, the inferior VHS format won.  HD DVD also lost to the Blue ray format even though some said HD DVD was better. The best product does not always win. There is a popular mesh item that "everyone" buys that I am of the opinion is inferior to several of its competitors - but right place, right time, right answer to the problem needed solved. So some other lesser product could be an SL killer, particularly if SL doesn't try to address the aging architecture and ease of use issues.

TL;DR Sometimes, ease of use is everything.

Edited May 16, 2020 by DeepBlueJoy

[JanuarySwan]

On 5/14/2020 at 5:04 AM, Lillith Hapmouche said:

No, no, no, no... that Forbes guy said so, too, because he was at one frigging concert, which blew his mind and probably other body parts, because he had absolutely no clue what modern media can do. 

Besides that, SL sex is de ebil, as we all know.

No, I don't think that's it at all.  Fortnite has real life toys and tons of other real life items.

Animats said Epic has billions in cash...these toys say EPIC on them (photo below).  They are making a fortune in real life toys and there are hundreds of toys and I only just began looking.  I didn't know Fortnite had toys.   Forbes is a fortune business type of magazine and they don't mess around.   

[Parhelion Palou]

Sometimes, ease of use just means you can't do much. The only thing out there that is truly like SL is OpenSim, and that's because they're a clone of it. SL is in a niche market. It will never be huge. There aren't that many people who get it, perhaps 15% of the people who try it. It's not meant for people who want to sit and watch. A company that wants to create something like SL has to create the space and tools, open it to users, then hope the users create something that others want to be in on. It might take a few years to get there, or may fizzle out. Try selling that business plan to the boss. Linden Lab didn't make SL what it is; its residents did.

[Selene Gregoire]

On 5/14/2020 at 8:37 AM, Beth Macbain said:

Is it possible to have sex in whatever this thing is? The big TEEN emblem on it says no. 

This will be a new shiny thing for a minute then it will fade away.

... pulling this one out again...

 

Has anyone bothered to keep count of how many times SL has died since 2003?

[Beth Macbain]

1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

 

Has anyone bothered to keep count of how many times SL has died since 2003?

Probably in the Tupac range but not quite into Elvis territory yet.

[DeepBlueJoy]

1 hour ago, Parhelion Palou said:

Sometimes, ease of use just means you can't do much. The only thing out there that is truly like SL is OpenSim, and that's because they're a clone of it. SL is in a niche market. It will never be huge. There aren't that many people who get it, perhaps 15% of the people who try it. It's not meant for people who want to sit and watch. A company that wants to create something like SL has to create the space and tools, open it to users, then hope the users create something that others want to be in on. It might take a few years to get there, or may fizzle out. Try selling that business plan to the boss. Linden Lab didn't make SL what it is; its residents did.

There is much merit in what you say. I am actually *not* eager for it to change radically. As long as it does not go away. But as long as it has commerce, it will probably shuffle along for a while.  It is a uniquely creative space - which is why I love it, but also why I fear for it. Society is often unkind to creative oddness and most of us are at least a little bit odd! 🙂

 

[JanuarySwan]

On 5/14/2020 at 8:37 AM, Beth Macbain said:

Is it possible to have sex in whatever this thing is? The big TEEN emblem on it says no. 

I don't know anything about a TEEN emblem because I am not involved in any other worlds besides SL.  But, I was wondering the same thing regarding the sex.  The article doesn't say, but suggests something more along the lines of being able to make user content.

 

Excerpt From the Forbes Article:  --------------------------------------------------------

 

Fortnite has pretty much all the pieces it needs for its own version of Second Life.

With Party Royale, it has a combat-free hub where you can’t destroy anything and you just hang out playing minigames and attending events.

With Fortnite Creative, you have an infinite hub of user-generated content that could be used to populate expansions to that initial world.

Combine those two together, and what do you have? Really all the building blocks you need for a virtual world in the Unreal engine. How long until Epic starts letting players build their own houses in an expanding Party Royale zone? How long until creators can sell their custom works to other players, creating an in-game economy? My guess for both, not long.

Edited May 17, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Beth Macbain]

34 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

On 5/14/2020 at 11:37 AM, Beth Macbain said:

 

I don't know anything about a TEEN emblem because I am not involved in any other worlds besides SL.  But, I was wondering the same thing regarding the sex.  The article doesn't say, but suggests something more along the lines of being able to make user content.

Fortnite is rated for ages 12 and over. Epic’s content policy states no sexual content at all.

If they changed it, they’d lose a bazillion dollars as parents suddenly forbid their kids from going anywhere near it.

No sex means no competition for SL.

[sirhc DeSantis]

2 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

 

Has anyone bothered to keep count of how many times SL has died since 2003?

Well I can only count from very late 06 so thats erm 13 * 5 plus a couple of leap years so - 69 ish?

I am enjoying the FN push (yes anyone who follows Euro Politics will get the ref) as it is all over the place. The next big thingie revisited. Sorry, I don't do family friendly.

[JanuarySwan]

9 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

Fortnite is rated for ages 12 and over. Epic’s content policy states no sexual content at all.

If they changed it, they’d lose a bazillion dollars as parents suddenly forbid their kids from going anywhere near it.

No sex means no competition for SL.

So teens would build like Second Life with homes and they'd have their own currency like Second Life.  Personally, I don't think teens could build some of the user content that is available here in SL in regards to mesh.  So, it would probably be very rudimentary and most likely not very attractive plus it would need to be very basic to "run on everything" and be "easy access" as Fortnite has set up.  A lot of the user created content in SL looks like it took years of schooling and work to get to the level some have reached here (speaking of mesh).

I think Fortnite thinks it will be the metaverse because it runs on just about everything and it's easy which for me doesn't mean attractive, not for artists or those who enjoy the arts.  Plus, no sex.  It's not like SL, it's just modeling some things after Second Life.  

But, hey, Second Life got publicity in Forbes magazine.  But, it has nothing to do with the quality of Second Life user content, it's only modeling it by just making available the ability to create user content and to sell/buy the content.    

 

[Luna Bliss]

There is plenty of sex in Fortnite, via words, under the table.

[JanuarySwan]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

There is plenty of sex in Fortnite, via words, under the table.

I can't argue there.  I'd say that's very true.  

Plus, with the name Fortnite Party Royale it almost sounds to me like it would be for adults.  A party royale for 12 year olds and up?  I don't know about that.  Not with my kid anyhow because a Fortnite is two weeks...that's like saying a two week party...with 12 year olds?  Not in my home.  

Edited May 16, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Dano Seale]

I always assumed 'IMVU' was the PG version of SL?