Luna Bliss Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 48 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said: And I'm not at all sure that having what appears to me to be the whole of a mountainous sim wouldn't frustrate me because I wouldn't be able wander round the mountains. Aye, the most wondrous beauty is but a longing.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penny Patton Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said: So you want all the landowners in the sim I'm in to be able to put sim-sized objects across my land, even though I can't see them and can't bump into them? And I wouldn't get a choice as to whether it happens or not? If I've understood it, it's not for me thankyou. I.e. I don't mean I don't want those options for me to use (I don't), I mean that I don't want my neighbors having the option to pile stuff across my land, regardless of whether or not I can see and feel it. ETA: I reserve the right to change my mind if and when I see it in action If you are not on the parcel where the object is being rendered it does not exist. That's how 3D rendering works. It's no different than me choosing my own windlight settings for my parcel, a feature that is coming soon. The windlight skybox covers the entire sim so I am, in effect, placing my windlight settings over your land, but unless you're on my parcel with the windlight settings for that parcel active, it's not affecting you in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Yes, I understand that, but I still don't want all my neighbors laying their sim-sized objects across my land. The fact that I wouldn't usually be able to see or feel them doesn't matter to me. I just don't fancy the idea. Nevertheless, as I said earlier, I reserve the right to change my mind if and when I see it in action. Edited January 27, 2018 by Phil Deakins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animats Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 If you don't want to be in a shared world, build in Sansar. It's all about private spaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwen Bunin Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Orwar said: I mean, you could always try talking to the neighbor in question and see if you can't find a diplomatic solution. Never understood why people in SL always seem to think that the first thing to do whenever a neighborhood related problem appears is to blacklist, build over or tear everything down and run off. I did send a notecard to the two owners, but no reply yet (but maybe they haven't logged on yet again, who knows). I didn't blacklist them, banned them or whatever. Only I do wished they first talked to me before creating this "wall" and not confront me with the fact that this "wall" is suddenly there. When talking we most likely would have found a solution that makes both sides happy. Only thing I want is a reasonable view again at the backside of my land. Luckily I got already some nice suggestions, here and in SL self (for which thank you). Edited January 27, 2018 by Morwen Bunin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penny Patton Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 28 minutes ago, animats said: If you don't want to be in a shared world, build in Sansar. It's all about private spaces. Ah yes, the "if you don't like it, LEAVE" argument. The fact is, different people enjoy different types of experiences in SL, and there's plenty of room for all kinds of people. In my opinion, forcing everyone into a single experience seems counter to the entire concept of SL. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 45 minutes ago, animats said: If you don't want to be in a shared world, build in Sansar. It's all about private spaces. I like a shared world, just not necessarily at my home. When I want that shared world, I can wander out to other areas of SL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animats Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 44 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Aye, the most wondrous beauty is but a longing.. If you want land in the middle of nowhere with mountain views, it's not hard to find in SL. There are lots of abandoned parcels in isolated areas. If you have a premium membership, you can request that an abandoned parcel be auctioned by sending in a support ticket. http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Blanda/165/101/139 Underdeveloped Heterocetra http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Simcoe/106/44/97 Abandoned mainland. Looks like the surface of the moon. There's lots more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 50 minutes ago, animats said: 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: Aye, the most wondrous beauty is but a longing.. If you want land in the middle of nowhere with mountain views, it's not hard to find in SL. There are lots of abandoned parcels in isolated areas. If you have a premium membership, you can request that an abandoned parcel be auctioned by sending in a support ticket. http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Blanda/165/101/139 Underdeveloped Heterocetra http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Simcoe/106/44/97 Abandoned mainland. Looks like the surface of the moon. There's lots more. Thanks, but I'm not looking for land as I'm feeling like I have too much of it atm (the redesigning of a 2-sim nature park on the ground level below my store is taking way too long). My comment related to an appealing aspect of the discussion between Penny & Phil....the questioning whether or not 'a view' has value, and especially if one can't access the view via exploration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Faulds Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 One other thing, and it goes to being a good neighbor. If you decide to place a prim surround on your land to see something you like, you should make it transparent from the side you aren't looking at so they don't have to stare at something they don't like. Also make it phantom so it's not a solid wall that people run into. Funny thing about derendering. I'm an admin for an RP sim. If you rented the skybox had to be in the area of play so you could only go up to 1000 meters. My neighbor put up this ugly skybox she made herself. When she did, we started having a problem with lag. Anyway, I derendered everything but some pieces kept coming back. When I examined them, she'd put them on a temp rez so she could have more than her allowed prims. She's wasn't happy she got caught since she knew they weren't allowed, but you don't break the rules when you live next to an admin. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Nova Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I have a neighbor who periodically build something huge, then 6 months or so later it disappears, and months afterwards something else appears. It's a tiny bit of land, but the impact of these tall objects is horrible. I can't say that in 2 years I have ever seen anyone there, or I would have struck up a conversation. Anyway, I got some of the free trees mentioned earlier in this thread, and they are excellent for hiding my other neighbors at low Land Impact. I'm also grateful for several suggestions about derendering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia Kiyori Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Gak! I really, really deplore the whole fugly mainland mess, the lag it creates and the uncouth neighbours with their pukey monstrosities (beauty being in the eye of the beholder was never more true than in this instance)...but, as Phil said, just derender + blacklist the whole dang place (Firestorm Viewer - not sure whether the SL Viewer has that functionality?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 am i the only one that thinks OP, more or less, did the same as her neighbour does now?... That house is at only a few meters from the parcelborder, ánd huge!.. it's bringing the same to her neighbour as his wall now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 It's Mainland. There are neighbors with varying ideas and outlooks. There really are no neighborhood police. No Geheime Nachbarschaftpolizei (Genachpo? Geschaftpo?) to make sure everyone conforms to some non-existent code. You really do have to put up with that to live on Mainland. I kinda like it, personally, but I can definitely understand how some people, coming to a "your world" promise, might hate it. The only 'fix' for that I'm aware of is moving to an estate parcel, spending a WHOLE lot of money for a homestead or a full sim, or just moving to the sky: lots of floors but no view to speak of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Meriman Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Dillon Levenque said: There really are no neighborhood police. No Geheime Nachbarschaftpolizei (Genachpo? Geschaftpo?) to make sure everyone conforms to some non-existent code. Wir sind die Geheime Nachbarschaftpolizei und wir kommen für Ihre Paravent! edit: Let's call the Mainland Privacy Screen destroyers the Gatchapo. Edited January 30, 2018 by Callum Meriman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Seeing this thread pop up again, I took another look at the pic. I think if this were my parcel, I'd spin that huge house 90 degrees, oriented with the long axis of the parcel, so its front and back could each have a more generous depth of parcel to buffer whatever a neighbor might build. I mean, who really cares what's visible from the side windows? Also, something Penny usually mentions: these houses tend to be distributed absurdly oversized, so realistically-scaled avatars look like toddlers inside the build. Unless it's already been done, chopping the size by, like, a third would improve both its appearance and its ability to fit on a parcel. (It's likely most of the contents also need scaling down to fit realistic avatars -- and that may pick up a bit more spare Land Impact, too. Animated furniture, though, needs more attention so the anims continue to fit the object. Also, some objects with script-movable parts may need testing to make sure the scripts are smart enough to handle a scale change.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said: am i the only one that thinks OP, more or less, did the same as her neighbour does now?... That house is at only a few meters from the parcelborder, ánd huge!.. it's bringing the same to her neighbour as his wall now. Nah, you're not alone, lol. I looked at the pic over and over and over again, I don't know how many times. The only thoughts that popped into my head were "why would you have the edge of a hedge entrance, leading to the back of a house, right there at the parcel border to begin with?" and "what was so spectacular about the view before the neighbor put that wall there if the ground level was already at a different height?" It would seem, to me, the view would be "odd", to say the least, no matter what was there, and nothing all that super special to look at, lol. Never much understood why people don't simply use derender for things they don't want to see, barring TOS violations of course. Find something fugly...derender...problem solved, lol. I doubt most parcel visitors give much of a toss about a view they probably aren't looking at to begin with. But, to each their own I suppose. In rl, I have three different kinds of fences bordering my backyard. It's a pretty big backyard, really, but it's kind of funny. Two of the fences are wooden, one (on one side) is around 6-ish feet high, the other(covers most of the back portion) at least a good 8. The other side has a chain link fence, and roughly 20-ish feet of the back portion is also chain link fence. (property borders are strange here, so are people). But if you look over the very back fence, the 8+ foot one, there is another fence on their side about 5 feet away, basically leaving a strip of grass between the two fences. It sounds super odd, but it's because there are power/cable/phone poles and such back there that run between properties and companies need free access to get to them/set up equipment, etc. If one were to essentially chop a hole in our large wooden fence, they'd see another fence. I wouldn't ever think "that dirty scoundrel has ruined my view" because of it. It would be a weird view no matter what was over there, be it chain link fence, or(as it currently stands) wooden fence...I still can't view their property...and I'm not so sure I'd want to anyway. There's nothing spectacular over there to look at, it's a house, maybe some plants, and their backyard....what's special about it? (to me, not them, I'm sure they love it, they're lovely people, lol). I feel the same about property in sl...I get no choice in what my neighbors put up if I choose to live somewhere that they can put up whatever they want. I;ve also no room to complain about suddenly losing a view that most likely isn't all that amazing to begin with lol. If I *really want to live there, and *really want a view...I'll derender whatever might be in my way of that. Given where OP's parcel sits....I still can't figure out what kind of view is being blocked, though, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwine Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I am noticing a lot of black on the sim surround texture wall and am wondering if it would look better with alpha masking on it? The black areas might go transparent and create a more natural looking effect. Fiddle with the alpha masking number in my experience somewhere between 50 and 200 on that setting works best depending on the texture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 11:53 AM, Penny Patton said: I've been working on an article about this very issue and how LL unintentionally pits neighbor against neighbor when all many of us, probably most of us, really want is an affordable space that we have complete control of and no neighbors to contend with. And Linden Lab could provide that! Easily! Years ago I suggested to the Lab that they offer a new parcel feature Just a couple of new checkboxes in the Options tab of your land information. One checkbox would make all objects on your parcel invisible and phantom to anyone outside your parcel. This would allow you to do things like buy a 512sq.m. plot of land and surround it with a huge sim sized mountain range, as if you were all alone in the mountains. Your neighbors would be entirely unaffected, unable to see or touch the objects. Only you, and anyone on your parcel, would even know the mountains were there. The second checkbox would make all objects outside your parcel invisible/phantom to anyone on your land. Your neighbor has a huge ugly wall bumping up against your parcel border, or even encroaching directly onto your parcel? Check this box and it's gone, everything outside your parcel is gone. Even encroaching items because they are anchored outside your parcel. You effectively have the sim all to yourself. These features would also be a huge boon to performance because you'd no longer have to download or render your neighbor's builds. Sim owners could use this effectively to build rental parcels completely separate from their neighbors so everyone has their own private little world over which they have complete control and no need to worry about the neighbors. A month or two ago I spoke directly with Oz Linden about this feature and he seemed to really like the idea, saying that they've actually talked about it at the office and are mainly trying to figure out how best to implement it. However, at the same time he admitted it was not a huge priority for them right now. LL seems to be making a lot of positive changes lately, so I can be patient, but it might help if more people were talking about solutions like this. Invisibility would work but "being phantom" would present major problems for the simulator. If an object has physical properties for you but not for your neighbor the servers would have to run multiple simulations at the same time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 39 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said: Invisibility would work but "being phantom" would present major problems for the simulator. If an object has physical properties for you but not for your neighbor the servers would have to run multiple simulations at the same time. Good point. What might work just as well is to make the encroachment rules not apply to objects that are set to this new "invisible outside the root parcel" attribute *and* either phantom or having physics type None for any parts extending outside that root parcel. (IIRC, the encroachment determination is done by Havok anyway, so this might be a relatively simple change, sim-side.) Personally, I'd rather have selective, object-by-object muting control over what gets rendered outside the parcel, as viewed by all agents within the parcel. That's probably just anachronistic idealism about Mainland neighborliness, but it would be less immersion-disruptive than having the entire scene change with every parcel-crossing. More bookkeeping though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penny Patton Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Yeah, in terms of encroaching items my thoughts were firmly along the lines of those sim surround landscapes which are always phantom since you can't interact with them anyway. I think going phantom-only for such items would be perfectly acceptable. In my mind, if it extends outside your parcel it should not exist as far as your neighbors are concerned, that's the important part. Giving people the experience they want, without infringing on the experience of others. 5 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: Personally, I'd rather have selective, object-by-object muting control over what gets rendered outside the parcel, as viewed by all agents within the parcel. That's probably just anachronistic idealism about Mainland neighborliness, but it would be less immersion-disruptive than having the entire scene change with every parcel-crossing. More bookkeeping though. I'm not against this either, though yeah it could make things more complicated than necessary. Still, options are good! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Glendevon Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 No place underlines the quote "L'enfer, c'est les autres" like Mainland residential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said: No place underlines the quote "L'enfer, c'est les autres" like Mainland residential. Only if you decide to make it so, I think. I've had many neighbors on mainland; the vast majority of which I got along with fine. Anytime I'd see a new build I'd walk over and introduce myself. Worked for me. I made some friends and I had a lot of fun. Sartre said once the quote is misinterpreted; he used 'les autres' not to mean other people but 'the Other', and (I think) to define that as our opinion of ourselves being shaped by what we think other people think of us. I've never given a flying fig about the latter, frankly. In SL or RL. That's worked for me too. I yam what I yam. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamyourneighbour Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I would suggest figuring out who they support in the US 2016 election and put up support sign for the one they dislike. MAGA sign helped me get rid of one problematic neighbour lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalytha Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 26 minutes ago, iamyourneighbour said: I would suggest figuring out who they support in the US 2016 election and put up support sign for the one they dislike. MAGA sign helped me get rid of one problematic neighbour lol This is funny.... I specifically bought land next to someone who supported a certain candidate just so I could put up the opposite sides propaganda. Fun times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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