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Linden Lab to put millions of US$ into SL

Phil Deakins

By Phil Deakins,
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Chic Aeon

Chic Aeon

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So I missed Phil's thread, got merge into it and my comments lost along they way, then was trying to comment again and lost that (oh my). 

So break time for me.

I am mostly excited about Windlights(R) of course -- well of course. For those that aren't OLD, it should be noted that long ago and far away we COULD share Windlights and I really missed that feature when it disappeared so happy to have it back. 

R and R, here I come.

Edited by Chic Aeon
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HaileeTempesta

HaileeTempesta

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I wish the system could be upgraded to handle what has been given to us to use and create with without having to use other features that ruin the look and immersion of SL.  We can turn people into blobs of ugly jelly that ruin the entire visual experience or render everyone invisible which leaves you feeling isolated and alone but they help remove the lag or you can have a great visual experience surrounded by (usually) amazing looking avatars but you can't move because you're so lagged out. 

I can play other games on ultra mode with tons of fighting and graphic intensive things going and never have a problem, but if I try to go to a shopping event in SL I have to drop my graphics to Low or Mid, render everyone invisible and turn off fog, clouds, water, etc. to even have a hope of loading everything or moving and even then it often takes upwards of 15 to 30 mins or more to get it all loaded and my system specs are not horrible:

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6800K CPU @ 3.40GHz (3399.99 MHz)
Memory: 32604 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 15063)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 1060 6GB/PCIe/SSE2

I know it would probably cost a fortune, but they just said they have a fortune to use to make changes, so make ones that would definitely pull in more people and help out the residents that have already given SL their all for nearly 15 years.

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Chase01

Chase01

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7 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

And there you have it. Announced in this blog post today, LL are putting millions into the future development of SL. That should ease the minds of all those who still wonder if SL is doomed once Sansar gets going :)

Don't you worry Phil, I am sure at some point someone will chime in with their altruistically negative perspective and claim that SL is dying, and that LL is doing nothing about it. Perhaps it will be a comment like "too little, too late" ... lmao :D

This is really exciting news!

 

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Lillith Hapmouche

Lillith Hapmouche

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8 hours ago, HaileeTempesta said:

I can play other games on ultra mode with tons of fighting and graphic intensive things going and never have a problem, but if I try to go to a shopping event in SL I have to drop my graphics to Low or Mid, render everyone invisible and turn off fog, clouds, water, etc. to even have a hope of loading everything or moving and even then it often takes upwards of 15 to 30 mins or more to get it all loaded and my system specs are not horrible:

That sounds odd, looking at your specs. There's a rare chance that you're visiting the event at a moment when the load sim is under heavy load, thus you simply do not get enough data sent for your hardware to process - but due to to server side issues, not on your client side.

Or you have a bug which keeps your hardware, especially the GPU, in idle mode, not providing its full power. I remember that there was a thread of a fellow GTX 1060 6GB user around here who also had heavy rendering issues. Unfortunately, the idle mode bug didn't get fully explored in the end. But that might be a starting point for you... so you could try to watch the load on and the speeds of your GPU via various monitor tools, like MSI Afterburner or GPU-Z. No idea if the Nvidia driver also offers such charts. 

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ChinRey

ChinRey

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8 hours ago, HaileeTempesta said:

I wish the system could be upgraded to handle what has been given to us to use and create with without having to use other features that ruin the look and immersion of SL.

...

I can play other games on ultra mode with tons of fighting and graphic intensive things going and never have a problem, but if I try to go to a shopping event in SL I have to drop my graphics to Low or Mid

...

Oh yes, I think that would be the single biggest improvement that can possibly be made to SL, it's even bigegr that the camera position bug and the UI mess.

But how?

Some of the excessive render load of SL (compared to other more modern virtual reality environments) is due to old and utdated software and poorly implemented patches and some of it is simply because SL environments tend to be far more crowded with objects and avatars than you see elsewhere.

But most of it is caused by inefficient content. Second Life does not have any effective ways to measure and control client side content load, most content creators don't have the technical skills needed to optimize their builds and even for those who know how to optimize - well, it takes time and there's no reward for it.

Can you think of a way to reduce the graphics load overhead without ruining SL's value as a sandbox environment where everybody are welsome to create? Lots of people have tried to find a solution to that dilemma but nobody has managed so far.

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Richardus Raymaker

Richardus Raymaker

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Posted
43 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

That sounds odd, looking at your specs. There's a rare chance that you're visiting the event at a moment when the load sim is under heavy load, thus you simply do not get enough data sent for your hardware to process - but due to to server side issues, not on your client side.

Or you have a bug which keeps your hardware, especially the GPU, in idle mode, not providing its full power. I remember that there was a thread of a fellow GTX 1060 6GB user around here who also had heavy rendering issues. Unfortunately, the idle mode bug didn't get fully explored in the end. But that might be a starting point for you... so you could try to watch the load on and the speeds of your GPU via various monitor tools, like MSI Afterburner or GPU-Z. No idea if the Nvidia driver also offers such charts. 

It's not odd. secondlife is just not uptodate and use the power of new hardware. Linden lab told somewhere in the past that the want to support old hardware, there's your problem ! Seconlife never going to be with the current code to a good stable framerate.

The whole way the platform works is outdated and create extra problems.

As long the servers cannot generate a steady 60fps it's always a problem. Not sure if a sim is still locked to one cpu.

Oh well, the whole secondlife design is a problem to bring into the modern age. The have lot's of work todo.

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Qie Niangao

Qie Niangao

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57 minutes ago, Richardus Raymaker said:

The whole way the platform works is outdated and create extra problems.

This is apparently less true than we were led to believe, judging by the wholesale "punt" that Sansar took to all the interesting problems that Second Life tried to face head-on (e.g., cross-shard handoffs in sim crossings). That's not the Sansar platform being any more up-to-date, it's merely giving up because stuff is hard.

More to the point of the thread: I, too, am most excited by the Windlight stuff, but beyond the ability to share settings and to use parcel settings (not the way it kimda works already in TPVs) is scriptable, per-avatar Windlight. So, within an Experience, not only can "weather" lighting, etc., depend on altitude over the same location, but also different avatars can be presented different environmental effects simultaneously, while in the very same space. You can imagine how that might be useful as folks progress independently through an Experience narrative, for example.

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ChinRey

ChinRey

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1 hour ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Argue whatever you want about the state of outdated technic and hardware support in the core of SL, I don't care.

There's nothing to argue about really. Some people think that SL should be open for regular people with the kind of computers you find in an average home, others feel it should be more exclusive and only target people with fairly high powered game/graphics computers. Neither of these two views is more "right" than the others and we just have to agree to disagree.

But HeileeTempesta compared it to other 3D environments and the main reason why everybody tend to get less mileage from their computing powers in SL than elsewhere is the content, not the software (although there must be quite lot to gain from software improvements too of course). I've done some informal test, creating fairly typical SL scenes but with optimized content both in SL and on my own grid and I typically get 30-50% - sometimes as much as 100% - fps increase that way. There's not much Linden Lab can do about that unless they want to put restirctions on people's creativity and I think we all agree we'd rather not have that.

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Callum Meriman

Callum Meriman

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3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

You can imagine how that might be useful as folks progress independently through an Experience narrative, for example.

I could really use scripted windlight.

Through an experience narative, or even something simpler like some of the great weather systems - turn it on and the windlight changes to dusty or bristol, then off and the windlight returns to dynamic richness.

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Chic Aeon

Chic Aeon

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5 hours ago, ChinRey said:

But most of it is caused by inefficient content. Second Life does not have any effective ways to measure and control client side content load, most content creators don't have the technical skills needed to optimize their builds and even for those who know how to optimize - well, it takes time and there's no reward for it.

Can you think of a way to reduce the graphics load overhead without ruining SL's value as a sandbox environment where everybody are welcome to create? Lots of people have tried to find a solution to that dilemma but nobody has managed so far.

That is the long standing issue since sculpts came on the scene. We actually had a sort of policing going on when it was only prims -- resident within the software -- that we could create with. Of course those could be manipulated  so that they became harder to render  :D. 

I recently watched a nicely made video by a long time Sansar "creator". "Creator" as it seems like he is more of an importer than someone actually making something from scratch. It was very evident from the video and indeed his comments on his skill level made within the video that he could represent the "hobbyist creator" in both worlds. The free mesh he downloaded from some online site (legal in Sansar and seemingly legal from my reading of the new all encompassing Linden Lab terms of service) was way too heavy for a game asset.  And so begins that rocky path yet again.

I have mentioned Cloud Party's automatic policing method before where the amount of items that could go on a "sim" (a 2 x 2 region there) was dependent on what the server could deal with. Closer to the actual server load then just measuring by land impact. Textures were measured and limited through the system also. This worked very well -- or it did for me anyway.  Everyone was still welcome to create (there were inworld tools also) but there was no way to flood an area with heavy mesh (one or two pieces might be all you could put on the "sim").  

I can't see any way that could work in SL now; something like that could have been implemented in Sansar but then again Sansar is only the "Wordpress" :D. 

 

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Conifer Dada

Conifer Dada

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It would be good if they could do some minor tweaks on the system avatar without losing the reference points for textures, so we could still use the same skins.  I'm thinking of more sliders, like one that can raise or lower knee position relative to leg length, and one or two that can alter the basic stance of an avatar, before one adds an AO or other animations.  Also it would be good to be able to texture each arm or foot separately.  

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