30 day restrictions and newbies.

[Katiezord]

Hi everyone!

I'm really enjoying my experiences in second life so far. I've met some wonderful people, and even started making mesh tattoos for my own avi, with an aim to one day maybe even start my own store! I've become really involved in the wonderful queer community around SL, and feel very welcomed!

However, one thing that has been a huge source of frustration for me, is being told I must wait 30 days to do things.

Now, before you mention about trolls and griefers, I get it, I really really do. Trolls suck, and protecting the community is important, especially in safe queer spaces. However, I have been turned down for 10 jobs as a DJ, hostess or dancer now. Not because I'm unqualified, my RL experience more than qualifies me.

Nope, it's because I've not been here long enough.

Another argument could be that I simply don't know my way around, or how to operate the software well enough. Though I can see lots of people might need time to make that adjustment, some do not. This has knock on effects, as of course without employment, as in real life, being social and taking part in fun activities can be hampered.

This isn't a request, or me being angry at any one person in particular. It's me sharing my experiences, hoping some people will choose to judge people based on merit, as opposed to arbitrary time limits, and encourage discussion of this topic.

Thanks! Hugs n kisses!

[Chaser Zaks]

Honestly, I feel the 30 day limit restriction goes against the idea for users to explore second life. It is more harmful than it is good, and is just an excuse for land managers to be lazy.

While it does make sense in some situations, such as where automated movement of money is involved(eg, visit to get money things), telling new users that they need to wait to explore is almost the same as saying they are not welcome.

I don't own any in-world places that are public, but if I ever do, I would more than welcome users whom are new, and go out of my way to help teach them how to do stuff to better enjoy their second life experience. I just wish others had the same ideology.

Sorry that this is the way things are, maybe one day they will change. Either way, welcome to Second Life, I wish for you great times here and many hippos in your future!

Edited August 10, 2017 by Chaser Zaks
I am an excellent english

[Ceka Cianci]

There must not have been much of that in 2006 I'm thinking..I can't recall ever having run into someone not letting me do anything back then..

I did learn about it later as time went on.. But when me and a couple of my friends decided to become dancers like two weeks in, we were hired right in on the first two places we applied for..

The first one closed two weeks later,the second one had not opened yet and we were their first dancers..It was a place called GOL or Goddess of Love..

It's first month it went to the top of the popular list..

I remember one of the managers coming in later and putting it into the rules..I also remember some of the other dancers that came in after us would move to the older member customers rather than spend time with the new member customers to SL..

A couple of years later the club was still up there in the top 5 on the popular list and I ended up making head manager of the club.. I ended up pulling that rule out and starting the school for all the dancers that came in and applied,new or old..

Nobody was allowed on our stage right out of being hired,even if they were in SL and a dancer for years..They all had to be approved by all the lead dancers and finalized by me..

The stage was an important part of the club and we took it serious..

They got to work and learn for two weeks on how our club does things and stage edict and so on..

The way I've always seen it is,especially with new people to SL..First impressions are ever lasting and the future base of survival for the club..Everyone is a potential somebody..

I think it was something that both sides enjoyed a lot..I know a lot of the dancers ,especially the leads enjoyed working with the newer people and teaching them the right way handle themselves on stage that made them feel like a star and the customers feel special rather than like a number..

I think a lot of the newer people enjoyed it as well and got a really good introduction to second life..Some did not make it to the stage but some did..But some older SL people didn't and some did as well..

Not many clubs turn a profit in second life..Ours only did it with two managers in it's whole history..The first one that hired me and my friends on and taught us stage edict,And when I was head manager..

I'm sure there are a few places and things where that 30 day rule is necessary.. I just can't think of any off the top of my head..Then again,I just woke up..

 

I would say,keep looking,because I doubt every place goes by the same rules..But then again these are different times and I haven't been in a club that had dancers in years..

 

 

[Amanda Crisp]

Some Roleplay sims prefer older and "payment info on file" avatars in the belief that it lessens the occurance of disposable alts created specifically for stalking or griefing.

I'm not sure it does that....

[Tari Landar]

It's not just a matter of potential griefing, although that IS a huge part of the 30 day restrictions you'll see on a lot of these. For places that are hiring, the 30 day rule is both to avoid having someone so fresh and new they barely understand sl at all themselves(and therefore cannot help patrons in any capacity should they ask a question-which happens a lot, even in clubs, lol), but also a lot of people under 30 days simply don't stay in sl that long, or aren't on at reliable, consistent times. Who wants to hire someone who seems genuinely interested in sl, but then bails after two weeks. It happens more often than you think. Sometimes those folks come back, sometimes they don't...but for lots of folks that first month, or two, is one of the most difficult times in their sl life. People do tend to leave often within the first month, even if they do later return. it would stand to reason that employers don't want to hire on folks just learning the ropes-at least some employers. 

Well, those were my reasons anyway. Not that I a was judging new residents(and I don't quite understand how anyone could see it that way to be honest, it's *almost insulting to assume we're just being judgmental because people are new, lol..*almost  ), I just think they need time to get used to sl itself, especially people that want to work in a position that deals with the general public. I wanted employees that could answer those random questions from other residents, or at least know where to look quickly to find it, or guide the discussion in the right direction.

There are a lot of people that will hire new folks too, though. They may not advertise it as well but they exist. I've hired them before myself, for certain positions, just never in a club capacity where they're expected to know a bit more than most new folks know. Not that folks that have been around for ages know these things, either...but there's a better chance they do, lol. 

[Callum Meriman]

5 hours ago, Katiezord said:

This isn't a request, or me being angry at any one person in particular. It's me sharing my experiences, hoping some people will choose to judge people based on merit, as opposed to arbitrary time limits, and encourage discussion of this topic.

Your post mentions two things, one is the 30 day requirement, which one can assume means you've been bitten by an orb a few times. The other is that you mention some places won't hire you because you are too young.

These are seperate in my eyes.

I think you understand, we can't watch and protect a sim 24x7 - we have real lives and need sleep too, so security orbs asre installed to pick up what we can't do ourselves.

Orbs can't judge on merit, they just judge on age, or height, or gender, or exposed sex-bits, whatever they were scripted to check.

I wish orbs could judge on nice a person was, to be honest. I certainly don't like running these scripted security devices in my sims, but I do run them due to the actions of one unsavory person that the Lab steadfastly refuses to act on, and that the Lab simply don't provide us with enough tools to deal with the nastiness properly.

Simply put, I can choose between the comfort and safety of my Queer friends, or their continual abuse by yet another alt of this psychotic, insane, drunk Canadian greifer whom we have been dealing with for literally years.

An orb ejecting you because you are not old enough is no sleight against you, and I think you realise this, it's to protect the space for genuine Queer people in the face of prolonged and substantial harrasment. The 30 days goes fast enough, and after that the orb is forgotten.

If anyone can come up with a better system, I am all ears (being Neko I have 4 of them, after all)

 

Then, as your second point, you mention employment, well that is one I hope everyone judges on merit, instead of age, I know we certainly do. Orbs can be whitelisted after all should we find a nice person willing to help. We have and will continue to whitelist new avatars who we decide are a benefit to the community, and knowing other sim owners, they do too.

Don't give up, practice and hone your skills, and also spend the time exploring, and learning, and making friends. The 30 days will soon be past you.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Callum Meriman
my speeling is baaaaaad.

[Cindy Evanier]

I have lost count of the new residents I have taken on over the years, spent a good few hours of my own time showing them how we work etc only to find they don't show up after a week for many reasons; they got bored of sl, they found another busier club, they realised nobody is going to throw money at them and they might actually have to do a bit of work, and my personal favorite - they opened their own club because they are suddenly an expert who can do it better. It used to hurt a bit at first, my time is important too.  Eventually I got tougher, what was important in my own SL changed and nowadays theres a little club on the corner of my sim which is not busy, not profitable but its laid out as a club and in my mind I feel, there is a space, use it, don't use it.  People who do use it do their own promoting of events as I don't have the time to run a club,  I just made a space for them to do it.

I totally understand why there are 30 day rules in places for many reasons.  I am still learning stuff about SL after 8 years lol.  That first month was such a huge learning curve and I admit I almost logged off forever myself a few times.  These days though it seems throw away accounts for griefing/money laundering and other nasty reasons seem more prevalent so club/land owners just have to do what they can to protect themselves and their customers from it.

Stick around though, 30 days goes fast and these places will all be open to you sooner than you think

[Chase01]

I agree with Tari, it does go beyond griefing. The 30-day prerequisite is not a mandate by LL, but that of the business owner. A lot of new residents come and go in those first 30-days, and many never go beyond even several logins. As a result, hiring people within that window can often be more problematic then its worth for both the owner, and for other employees.

Don't take it personal. Instead use this time as an opportunity to get familiar with the platform, make some friends and explore. Not having a job shouldn't preclude you from having any fun.

 

 

[Klytyna]

17 hours ago, Katiezord said:

However, I have been turned down for 10 jobs as a DJ, hostess or dancer now. Not because I'm unqualified, my RL experience more than qualifies me.

Nope, it's because I've not been here long enough.

Some years back, I was standing at a sim border, waiting for the reset on the sim next door to finish, so I could visit the store there...

The account I was using was 3 weeks old...

Then the store owner came and stood next to me, also waiting for his sim to come back up, and said HI, as he'd spotted that I had made my avi with clothes, skin, shoes, and jewelery from his recent store hunt, on a shape I'd made my self that matched the kind of style he used in his promo images, and done a good job.

He TOLD me to apply for a job as one of his store models, and when I pointed out I didnt make the 30 day requirement he just said "I own the store... apply" and gave me 3 free outfits.

So I went off and contacted his 'model wrangler' who told me that I was too young and inexperienced in SL (I was an obvious alt), and didn't match the stores brand image (dressed head to toe in clothes given to me by the store owner and there at his request). The models hired by the wrangler, were ALL lastnamers, and most didn't match the store style at all, patronage and favor, and predudice against 'residents'.

So I didn't get a job as a model, instead I was on the owners friends list, worked as a host there earning more than the models, and was the one who got the wrangler fired for abusing their position...

Most 'under 30 day' people are not that lucky, and suffer for the same reasons, with no 'revenge'.

Welcome to SL
 

[Love Zhaoying]

13 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

So I didn't get a job as a model, instead I was on the owners friends list, worked as a host there earning more than the models, and was the one who got the wrangler fired for abusing their position...

Gotta love seeing karma in action!

[Chris Corvinus]

On 8/9/2017 at 8:26 PM, Katiezord said:

Hi everyone!

I'm really enjoying my experiences in second life so far. I've met some wonderful people, and even started making mesh tattoos for my own avi, with an aim to one day maybe even start my own store! I've become really involved in the wonderful queer community around SL, and feel very welcomed!

However, one thing that has been a huge source of frustration for me, is being told I must wait 30 days to do things.

Now, before you mention about trolls and griefers, I get it, I really really do. Trolls suck, and protecting the community is important, especially in safe queer spaces. However, I have been turned down for 10 jobs as a DJ, hostess or dancer now. Not because I'm unqualified, my RL experience more than qualifies me.

Nope, it's because I've not been here long enough.

Another argument could be that I simply don't know my way around, or how to operate the software well enough. Though I can see lots of people might need time to make that adjustment, some do not. This has knock on effects, as of course without employment, as in real life, being social and taking part in fun activities can be hampered.

This isn't a request, or me being angry at any one person in particular. It's me sharing my experiences, hoping some people will choose to judge people based on merit, as opposed to arbitrary time limits, and encourage discussion of this topic.

Thanks! Hugs n kisses!

I hired a DJ at my club once. He had been around a long time in SL and had quite an impressive DJ management background. I made him a GM. He then tried to take over the whole club and was promptly fired. My point is, it doesn't matter how old your avi is. The 30 day rule is irrelevant when a 8 year old avi can have a 2 week old alt. 

If this person can prove how good he/she is live, I would hire him/her regardless of avi age.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Dakota Linden
MODERATOR: Removed degoragoty term

[eanna0]

Probably a lot of people are struggling with the same.. Honestly many people (like in rl I have to mention) have no clear idea how to do the hiring process effectively and that`s one of the most important parts of running any business. I personally would never re-apply to any place that I know didn`t consider me because of age (and that`s easy for me to figure even if they don`t say it frankly ). The reason? I`d much rather be hired either by someone who really knows how to run a business well and can use critical thinking or someone who is really friendly and fun to be around. And If I find both.. oh that would be amazing. There is absolutely no reason for me to try to work with or feel bad about being rejected from people who show qualities that are on my red flag list... It just wouldn`t make sense to put myself through such s*** 

Employers both in rl and sl have their requirements which are often many and make sense to some, but wouldn`t make sense to everybody. Yet what people often forget is that employees are also looking for something that fits them so they have requirements as well. (Even if many settle for jobs that don`t fit into their requirements out of need, lack of self esteem or other specific circumstances everyone has their dream job or at least wants a place where they feel okay - and different people feel ok at different type of places ;) They have that right and they really have to use it and not settle for employers who they don`t match with  Finding an employee and looking for a job is not and should not be a slave trade from either side, but it is a mutual agreement/ contract. Anyone can fail you and anyone could be the best person you`ve ever worked with. 30 day requirement rules and such are the result of not knowing how to decide critically who`s right and avoid risk constructively. (Which I agree can be a hard task since you can never live in any life and avoid risk completely.. I think it`s just part of the trill.)

Happy matching to all

[Syo Emerald]

You haven't really explained how being good at running a business in SL connects to not putting up an account restriction for potential employees.

[lucagrabacr]

I think the reasoning behind that limit by managers are to make sure the people they employ are ones who stick around and won't disappear in a week or so, not assuming you or anyone would just because they are new, but I guess that would be the reasoning (or any that you've mentioned before)

Anyway, welcome to SL! You've made the right choice, SL is the place to be  

[Fionalein]

5 minutes ago, lucagrabacr said:

I think the reasoning behind that limit by managers are to make sure the people they employ are ones who stick around and won't disappear in a week or so, not assuming you or anyone would just because they are new, but I guess that would be the reasoning (or any that you've mentioned before)

Anyway, welcome to SL! You've made the right choice, SL is the place to be  

True, but I have also seen it in shops.... which makes no sense at all. Newbies are the most reckless spenders in whole SL

[Syo Emerald]

1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

True, but I have also seen it in shops.... which makes no sense at all. Newbies are the most reckless spenders in whole SL

Any entrance restriction like that is probably the last stand of a shop owner to protect themself against griefers, to make their store a less desireable target.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

have also seen it in shops.... which makes no sense at all

1. Maybe shop owners don’t want to deal with customers too new to know how to open and wear things.

2. Maybe shop owners don’t want to deal with potential fraud accounts which buy lots of stuff but then money gets removed when fraud is reported.

3. Maybe shop owners don’t want to deal with potential griefer/spam accounts, which are often brand new.

4. Need more reasons? I’m like a list maker or something over here. Just sitting over here, making lists.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Love Zhaoying

[Chase01]

The 30-day is a prerequisite for many employers and for good reason. It is simply a process of elimination and for all of the points I made in my last post. God forbid someone has to wait 30-days and be relied upon to act in good faith as a brand ambassador for a business which may be well established. They don't know you, nor do they know your intentions and for many of them. they've heard it all before. It isn't personal, and they aren't saying they're not interested. It is a process ...

With all due respect to the OP, they don't even know what they don't know yet.

[HideyoshiKino]

this is all good and all for business's but what about people who just wanna explore ..the places open to me at the moment are basically pointless there's no one there and if there is they don't talk really until my 30 days are up i'm wasting my time logging in i joined sl after my friend told me it was more fun then the previous place like sl i use to chill at and didn't have a members fee for the adult places ..but the thing is i cant even check them out at the moment due to the 30 day restriction ...I may just end up going back where i came from cause right now until the 30 days is up sl is boring to me

[Cindy Evanier]

7 minutes ago, HideyoshiKino said:

this is all good and all for business's but what about people who just wanna explore ..the places open to me at the moment are basically pointless there's no one there and if there is they don't talk really until my 30 days are up i'm wasting my time logging in i joined sl after my friend told me it was more fun then the previous place like sl i use to chill at and didn't have a members fee for the adult places ..but the thing is i cant even check them out at the moment due to the 30 day restriction ...I may just end up going back where i came from cause right now until the 30 days is up sl is boring to me

There are hundreds if not thousands of places to explore in SL.  I am sure the 30 day restriction on SOME places is a minority.  Open search type in a keyword that interests you and I am sure there will be a heap of places you can explore

[ananoelle]

7 minutes ago, HideyoshiKino said:

this is all good and all for business's but what about people who just wanna explore ..the places open to me at the moment are basically pointless there's no one there and if there is they don't talk really until my 30 days are up i'm wasting my time logging in i joined sl after my friend told me it was more fun then the previous place like sl i use to chill at and didn't have a members fee for the adult places ..but the thing is i cant even check them out at the moment due to the 30 day restriction ...I may just end up going back where i came from cause right now until the 30 days is up sl is boring to me

Are you sure about having to wait 30 days to visit places? I see new accounts at adult places all the time. New as in 0 days old. 

Some places have stipulations like having payment on file and setting age restrictions on their clubs.

[Theresa Tennyson]

46 minutes ago, ananoelle said:

Are you sure about having to wait 30 days to visit places? I see new accounts at adult places all the time. New as in 0 days old. 

Some places have stipulations like having payment on file and setting age restrictions on their clubs.

And not allowing people who are playing underage avatars - you know, the type who often wear products that flatten the chest of a female mesh avatar or who model their avatars after a fictional character who's in the middle grades of a Japanese high school.

[HideyoshiKino]

lol ok my friend told me what was wrong seems my viewer was set in general searchs only after changing it in preferences i can now roam freely..oh well i am a newbie so i'm allowed one mistake right

 

[Selene Gregoire]

2 hours ago, HideyoshiKino said:

i am a newbie so i'm allowed one mistake right

Yes. Only one. And you just used it up. 

Edited June 25, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[CheriColette]

On 8/11/2017 at 3:49 AM, Klytyna said:

Some years back, I was standing at a sim border, waiting for the reset on the sim next door to finish, so I could visit the store there...

The account I was using was 3 weeks old...

Then the store owner came and stood next to me, also waiting for his sim to come back up, and said HI, as he'd spotted that I had made my avi with clothes, skin, shoes, and jewelery from his recent store hunt, on a shape I'd made my self that matched the kind of style he used in his promo images, and done a good job.

He TOLD me to apply for a job as one of his store models, and when I pointed out I didnt make the 30 day requirement he just said "I own the store... apply" and gave me 3 free outfits.

So I went off and contacted his 'model wrangler' who told me that I was too young and inexperienced in SL (I was an obvious alt), and didn't match the stores brand image (dressed head to toe in clothes given to me by the store owner and there at his request). The models hired by the wrangler, were ALL lastnamers, and most didn't match the store style at all, patronage and favor, and predudice against 'residents'.

So I didn't get a job as a model, instead I was on the owners friends list, worked as a host there earning more than the models, and was the one who got the wrangler fired for abusing their position...

Most 'under 30 day' people are not that lucky, and suffer for the same reasons, with no 'revenge'.

Welcome to SL
 

Love your revenge. Reminds me of that part in Pretty Woman, when (Julia Roberts) goes shopping for an outfit only to be told she was in the wrong shop!