Anatomy of Trolls and How to Deal with Them

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

41 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Do you WARN visitors? Or do they just get attacked?

In this instance the victim is trespassing, I believe. If the bees just chase them off the property, it isn't that different than an orb. She put up a pic in one of the Land threads showing a large "No Trespassing" sign.

Along that same theme, I was standing on my sky platform with @Bagnu one time when he said something that ticked me off.  I sent a pack of rats at him that picked him up and tossed him off the platform.  I did not feel like a griefer in the slightest. I did however know my victim, so it wasn't completely out of the blue.

Edited May 27 by Cinnamon Mistwood

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

In this instance the victim is trespassing, I believe. If the bees just chase them off the property, it isn't that different than an orb. She put up a pic in one of the Land threads showing a large "No Trespassing" sign.

 

That's not how she initially used them.  Her previous thread asking if it was griefing specifically said she left her land open for everyone to enjoy.  

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

That's not how she initially used them.  Her previous thread asking if it was griefing specifically said she left her land open for everyone to enjoy.  

Okay, yes. It is different if she puts out a welcome mat inviting people to her Land.

In the pic I saw she had her land fenced with a big No Trespassing sign and she mentioned the bees would attack if people entered past the warning.

That was a couple months ago. I guess things have changed. 

Edited May 27 by Cinnamon Mistwood

[Istelathis]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

That's not how she initially used them.  Her previous thread asking if it was griefing specifically said she left her land open for everyone to enjoy.  

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but isn't that what people did for the Bellisserian Halloween event a couple of years ago.  They would put up their security orbs, and before people could reach the pumpkin basket they would get the boot.  

 

  

On 5/20/2024 at 2:41 PM, Charlemagne Allen said:

Let me know if there's anything I've missed or if you have any experiences with trolls.

I haven't had experiences with trolls, I mean not really ones that would bother me any.  My first experience in SL was on social island and there was a group of people dancing, and listening to music, one was an avatar of a huge dildo chasing people around including me, but I thought it was hilarious.  I guess it just caught me off guard..

I think the more established trolls, would be the social influencers that record their trolling, you see a few of them on youtube.  They are doing it for the views, and possibly for a few extra bucks.  

[Love Zhaoying]

20 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Do you WARN visitors? Or do they just get attacked?

In this instance the victim is trespassing, I believe. If the bees just chase them off the property, it isn't that different than an orb. She put up a pic in one of the Land threads showing a large "No Trespassing" sign.

Understood. Of course, on Belli would a sign be enough of a warning (if she were on Belli)?

22 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

Along that same theme, I was standing on my sky platform with @Bagnu one time when he said something that ticked me off.  I sent a pack of rats at him that picked him up and tossed him off the platform.  I did not feel like a griefer in the slightest. I did however know my victim, so it wasn't completely out of the blue.

Well, @Bagnu being @Bagnu, of course he deserves whatever he gets! 
 

[Chery Amore]

I haven't followed all of it but if I've asked someone to leave my home and they didn't...  I'd feel completely at ease pulling out a gun and orbiting them for my own amusement prior to banning them.  Because when else are you gonna get that chance? If they are a troll.. they would probably enjoy it.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

22 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but isn't that what people did for the Bellisserian Halloween event a couple of years ago.  They would put up their security orbs, and before people could reach the pumpkin basket they would get the boot.  

 

  

 

I know I posted this before, but I'll post it again. For a while there was a gold hunt, people could visit sims and collect gold coins. I told my demon overlord that it would be fun to set out a treasure chest on his land, then we could sit on the top of his castle and snipe at people when they came looking for the gold. He declined, he said he was afraid we would get ARed for griefing.

Imagine that, a demon with a conscience. 😂

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm perfectly chill, BJ.

I didn't suggest you were out traumatizing people -- the words I used were "annoying" and "discomforting."

That said, how "harmless" this "fun" is, is likely a bit subjective. You've decided, sort of unilaterally and without consulting the feelings of your targets, that it's "harmless." I'm assuming your aren't polling them first ("How, would it be ok if I cage you for a bit?") -- so you can't really know whether they will enjoy it or not until after you've done it, correct? You really don't get to decide how they "should feel" about it.

My initial post, however, was really quite genuine, and I'd love to hear a response. Why do you find actions that are quite likely, and maybe even intended, to cause annoyance, irritation, or upset "fun"? What is it about targeting others in ways that they might not choose to be targeted that appeals to you?

There is no point in doing it if you tell them beforehand is there?😆

[SandorWren]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Understood. Of course, on Belli would a sign be enough of a warning (if she were on Belli)?

Well, @Bagnu being @Bagnu, of course he deserves whatever he gets! 
 

I seem to deserve to spend lots of time with @Cinnamon Mistwoodand Caitlin. If that's punishment I am absolutely doing SOMETHING right LOL!!!

Edited May 27 by Bagnu

[Roxy Couturier]

5 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The former knows what the word "gaslighting" actually means. Which apparently you don't.

Maybe they're thinking of Maddy? She lights a lot of peo.. things.

[Roxy Couturier]

3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

The Forums are not a "multiplayer video game":

 

But there is a plethora of 'Main Character Syndome'.

And the rest of us are just NPCs.

[Roxy Couturier]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

A classic example would be someone asking a woman with whom he disagreed whether she was PMS. Another might be insisting that an opponent was simply imagining something that they can remember happening.

I'm not sure how this applies.

Additionally, there's a whole ass movie called.. duhn duhn duhn.. 'Gaslight' that the term is taken from and does indeed have the husband convincing the wife that she's going mad when she wasn't. "I never said xyz" "You never told me zyx. Darling what's wrong with you?"

[Arielle Popstar]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

In other words, not merely disagreeing, but trying to convince the other person that their actual understanding is irrational and dysfunctional.

A classic example would be someone asking a woman with whom he disagreed whether she was PMS. Another might be insisting that an opponent was simply imagining something that they can remember happening.

I'm not sure how this applies.

So one person says they are playing a practical joke on others with the intent of being funny. The other then says that it is griefing and sets out to prove it is. So the one is trying to change the other persons reality and convince the other that their perspective is the right one. That is what "Gaslighting" is:

one partner is consistently negating the other's perception, insisting that they are wrong, or telling them that their emotional reaction is irrational or dysfunctional.

A judgement of whether it is griefing or not is dependent in this case on what one 'feels" the other is doing but it is subjective as others may nor feel the same, Others may think it is funny and feels a heightened sense of intimacy with the joker. That doesn't stop one from sharing how they may personally feel about such a situation if it was done to them but without projecting how it must feel for anyone else.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

20 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

So one person says they are playing a practical joke on others with the intent of being funny. The other then says that it is griefing and sets out to prove it is. So the one is trying to change the other persons reality and convince the other that their perspective is the right one.

Congrats on redefining virtually any disagreement between two people as "gaslighting," thereby rendering what is actually a fairly useful term utterly meaningless.

[Arielle Popstar]

10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Congrats on redefining virtually any disagreement between two people as "gaslighting," thereby rendering what is actually a fairly useful term utterly meaningless.

I did say you wouldn't like how I defined it even though we both agreed on other people's interpretations of what GasLighting is.

It's seems a fairly new word and one that some of us just saw as a codependent characteristic before then without a specific term to define it. I looked at several different sites for their definition and noticed there were dissimilarities how each author defined it. So we're not alone in disagreeing with particular cases whether gaslighting is involved.

[Rolig Loon]

12 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

So one person says they are playing a practical joke on others with the intent of being funny. The other then says that it is griefing and sets out to prove it is. So the one is trying to change the other persons reality and convince the other that their perspective is the right one. That is what "Gaslighting" is:

one partner is consistently negating the other's perception, insisting that they are wrong, or telling them that their emotional reaction is irrational or dysfunctional.

A judgement of whether it is griefing or not is dependent in this case on what one 'feels" the other is doing but it is subjective as others may nor feel the same, Others may think it is funny and feels a heightened sense of intimacy with the joker. That doesn't stop one from sharing how they may personally feel about such a situation if it was done to them but without projecting how it must feel for anyone else.

I've only been watching this quietly from the sidelines, so I'm not sure that I understand where this line of argument is going. So, are you saying that it's perfectly OK for someone to play a practical joke on a person because it's "all in fun", even if the other person finds it hurtful or demeaning?  Perception does seem to be the key, but things seem a bit lopsided.  A person at the butt of the "joke" may see that the joker is having fun, but that doesn't make it any less hurtful. Why is the burden on him to pretend that it's "all in fun" for him too?  Why isn't it just as fair to expect the joker to see that his actions are not "fun" for the victim?  It's not a matter of either person changing the other's perception of reality but a matter of both people recognizing that the perceptions are different.  If they are radically different, the "joking" ought to stop. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

I haven't been following much of this back and forth, but just wanted to chime in on this - Gaslighting's a bit more insidious - far beyond simple trolling or griefing. Think of it more like a form of sabotage. An extreme example - 

Person A turns up the heat a few degrees. Person B says, "Whew, why is it so hot in here?" Person A says, "I don't know what you're talking about, the temperature is the same. You're probably just running a fever. Come to think of it, you don't look too good. Are you sure you're feeling alright?" 

Highly recommend seeing Gaslight, the 1944 George Cukor film, based on the 1938 play. If for no other reason but Charles Boyer. 👀

Also, it probably goes without saying, but if you run into that sort of behavior in Second Life or out, run as fast and as far as your feets will take you.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Also, it probably goes without saying, but if you run into that sort of behavior in Second Life or out, run as fast and as far as your feets will take you.

So true...run fast...they are far worse than a physically violent aggressor because a gaslighter wants to destroy the very core or essence of their victim.

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

So one person says they are playing a practical joke on others with the intent of being funny. The other then says that it is griefing and sets out to prove it is. So the one is trying to change the other persons reality and convince the other that their perspective is the right one. That is what "Gaslighting" is:

one partner is consistently negating the other's perception, insisting that they are wrong, or telling them that their emotional reaction is irrational or dysfunctional.

A judgement of whether it is griefing or not is dependent in this case on what one 'feels" the other is doing but it is subjective as others may nor feel the same, Others may think it is funny and feels a heightened sense of intimacy with the joker. That doesn't stop one from sharing how they may personally feel about such a situation if it was done to them but without projecting how it must feel for anyone else.

You're making up a bad example in an attempt to prove some odd point.

Typically when someone is playing a practical joke they STOP if they see the recipient of their joke doesn't find it so funny.  End of story. I've never seen the victim of the joke say the jokester is griefing them unless the jokester won't stop.

[Arielle Popstar]

33 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

I've only been watching this quietly from the sidelines, so I'm not sure that I understand where this line of argument is going. So, are you saying that it's perfectly OK for someone to play a practical joke on a person because it's "all in fun", even if the other person finds it hurtful or demeaning?  Perception does seem to be the key, but things seem a bit lopsided.  A person at the butt of the "joke" may see that the joker is having fun, but that doesn't make it any less hurtful. Why is the burden on him to pretend that it's "all in fun" for him too?  Why isn't it just as fair to expect the joker to see that his actions are not "fun" for the victim?  It's not a matter of either person changing the other's perception of reality but a matter of both people recognizing that the perceptions are different.  If they are radically different, the "joking" ought to stop. 

 

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You're making up a bad example in an attempt to prove some odd point.

Typically when someone is playing a practical joke they STOP if they see the recipient of their joke doesn't find it so funny.  End of story. I've never seen the victim of the joke say the jokester is griefing them unless the jokester won't stop.

If one is talking about their personal feelings if treated that way fine but here it is stated generally that noobs are being victimized and treated in such a way to annoy or discomfort them, which is a guess.

Stirring up drama? Sez who? No more then half a dozen or more others who also challenge the thinking of others. 

Quote

Whether you wander around victimizing noobs on a 24/7 basis or not, you clearly find it a hoot to annoy or discomfort people.

You also enjoy creating deliberately stirring up drama here.

 

 

 

[Rolig Loon]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

If one is talking about their personal feelings if treated that way fine but here it is stated generally that noobs are being victimized and treated in such a way to annoy or discomfort them, which is a guess.

Oh, I wasn't talking about noobs in particular. You're right that no one here can say whether a specific joker hassling a noob is "victimizing" him or not. It's probably pretty fair to guess that many noobs do feel annoyed and discomforted by it, though.  That should be enough to suggest to a jokester of moderate intelligence that it's not a good idea to play "fun jokes" on strangers.  I think we were all probably told a zillion times in kindergarten not to pick on other kids. (Remember the line? "Stop now or somebody's going to get hurt.") How hard can it be for seasoned SL residents to figure out that the same common sense rule applies in a welcome area?

[Stephanie Misfit]

Friends and I used to get dressed up and go to Gor sims and play musical instruments. By no means is that against the TOS, but it certainly got us banned from some regions. And that's how you deal with trolls.

[Luna Bliss]

21 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

If one is talking about their personal feelings if treated that way fine but here it is stated generally that noobs are being victimized and treated in such a way to annoy or discomfort them, which is a guess.

Stirring up drama? Sez who? No more then half a dozen or more others who also challenge the thinking of others. 

Quote

Whether you wander around victimizing noobs on a 24/7 basis or not, you clearly find it a hoot to annoy or discomfort people.

You also enjoy creating deliberately stirring up drama here.

It's not a guess that most people would find it annoying being attacked by something in SL. I"m sure there are some who would not, but I'm certain most people like to explore freely without having their agency taken away by an experience they had no part in creating. There have been numerous examples on the forum of people being bothered by such behavior.

The fact that anyone would continue to infringe on another via attacking them in whatever way, knowing most found it bothersome, is griefing.

Edited May 27 by Luna Bliss

[Persephone Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Friends and I used to get dressed up and go to Gor sims and play musical instruments. By no means is that against the TOS, but it certainly got us banned from some regions. And that's how you deal with trolls.

By playing musical instruments at them or by banning them from regions?

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

8 minutes ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Friends and I used to get dressed up and go to Gor sims and play musical instruments. By no means is that against the TOS, but it certainly got us banned from some regions. And that's how you deal with trolls.

We used to go as fruit.