Thunes to acquire payments platform Tilia LLC

[Sid Nagy]

45 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I'm probably just not remembering it is all.. Either way, I won't have to this time..

I decided to wait and see what they tell us and read what they give us when the new one shows up. plus probably gonna do some research.

In the mean time, I downgraded my 3 accounts that were premium to basics and removed my payment information..

I've been hit twice with information leaks by bigger companies than this one. One was not too long after some other company took them over..  Third time isn't gonna be a charm for me.. hehehe

Do you really think that your payment history magically disappears from their databases, when you remove your payment information from the website? Your data are in there somewhere, like it or not.
 

Edited April 25 by Sid Nagy

[Ceka Cianci]

1 minute ago, Sid Nagy said:

Do you really think that your payment history magically disappears from their databases, when you remove your payment information from the website? Your data are in there somewhere, like it or not.
 

My old information ya, they can have that. They wont have any useful payment information though. I already have a new card on the way and they don't have any of my others.

I have changing card numbers on speed dial. It's not my first rodeo. Hehehe 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Anyway, back to the topic: one benefit of LL selling Tilia is, LL can focus on their core business of Second Life without managing Tilia, too.

It will be interesting to see the logical gymnastics used to dispute my statement above.

No "logical gymnastics" required, since your statement is just a "LL can do no wrong and everything is just fine!" spam post.

 

Here we go, ready?

 

1. LL used to manage their credit card/paypal OWN billing and made their own software to handle that.

2. New regulations came in, with more red tape, and LL had a choice.

        a) Carry on as before, and deal with the extra red tape.

        b) Outsource the work to one of the many billing processor companies that serviced web sites, but who were showing a tendency to refuse to deal with anything "adult (like the time Renderotica had its billing stopped because a A rated CGI Art gallery had A rated CGI art on it ).

        c) Hive their own inhouse system of into a subsidiary company called Tilla.

3. LL outsources all it billing to this company called Tilla.

4. Takeover pirates notice Tilla exists, and want it, because buying a company that's licenced to transmit money in 48 states, iss easier than getting licenced to transmit money in 48 states from scratch, also, that bespoke software they ae using looks interesting, it would be ideal for dealing with other online world/games companies.

5. LL get taken over by the takeover pirates.

6. The takeover pirates sell 25% of Tilla to a large American Bank.

7. Fake Money Crypto-Crap Enable Inc, who mainly concentrate on shifting crypto-cap from USB wallet sticks in dodgy places to reputable banks, think that Tilla looks EXCITING!, 

8. Fake Money Crypto-Crap Inc buys Tilla.

9. LL realise they are now RIGHT BACK at Option 2.B, and negotiate some 5 y "promise" not to sc*w them over out of Tilla's new owners.

10. Tilla's new owners scr*w over LL

 

A Ten Point Plan, that ends with all of us getting scr*wed over with hiked cashout fees, hiked transaction charges, hiked Premium, etc., as Tilla try to squeeze out as much cash as they can from LL, and LL compensate by squeezing all of US.

 

3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

LL can focus on their core business of Second Life without managing Tilia, too

Since Tilla was how they collected the MONEY from all of us, for operating SL, it WAS their "core business".

 

Edited April 25 by Zalificent Corvinus

[sirhc DeSantis]

8 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

The only REAL market for the MobileLife Fail Viewer is basically EXISTING SecondLiers who want to check their IM's on the buss home to/from work, or during their lunch break.

 

A wee bit off topic and Clipped a bit but on this - You and the Lab have this a bit B-Ackward. IdiotPhone users would be happy to drop 1.99 Euros for 5 minutes of fun. Does not matter if they become full(y) members. Does not need to be a 'full viewer' just enough curated stuffs. Easy money for the Lab + 'existing SLers' get to have a sneer. Bonus

Trust me - shifted 50+ units off itch at 1.99 - imagine the Lab taking that  in from  (insert globalcorpname)-play as a sideline.

[Hydra Acer]

My question is: If you find Linden Lab so bad as a company, if you think that everything in Second Life works so badly, if you are so angry with everything new that is being done during these years: Why are you not running away from Second Life to another platform? Why are you wasting your time in these forums criticizing non-stop? It is simply something that I have always wondered about and I don't understand?

One thing is to make a constructive criticism and quite another is to criticize everything and for everything.

[Love Zhaoying]

55 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

 your statement is just a "LL can do no wrong and everything is just fine!" spam post.

Nope, not at all. I brought up an aspect of the Thune deal that was not previously discussed, unless I missed it.

On the other hand, your rude characterization of my post is indeed an egregious form of SPAM. Nice try, though. You won't get under my skin this time. 

[Love Zhaoying]

24 minutes ago, Hydra Acer said:

My question is: If you find Linden Lab so bad as a company, if you think that everything in Second Life works so badly, if you are so angry with everything new that is being done during these years: Why are you not running away from Second Life to another platform? Why are you wasting your time in these forums criticizing non-stop? It is simply something that I have always wondered about and I don't understand?

One thing is to make a constructive criticism and quite another is to criticize everything and for everything.

This does get asked, but should get asked more often.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Since Tilla was how they collected the MONEY from all of us, for operating SL, it WAS their "core business".

Many companies outsource their billing, collections, etc. So, you don't even realize that your statement is BS.

ETA: Small websites use bolt-on collection software. They don't need to go write their own, as LL did.  My point is, even if "collecting money" is a company's "core business", that doesn't mean they need to write and own the software for doing so.

Edited April 25 by Love Zhaoying

[Alwin Alcott]

14 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Nope, not at all.

 mr innocent, you'r not at all indeed. 

[Love Zhaoying]

10 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

The only REAL market for the MobileLife Fail Viewer is basically EXISTING SecondLiers who want to check their IM's on the buss home to/from work, or during their lunch break.

I believe streaming music works now. So, people can go to clubs and listen to music.

Soon, HUDs will work. Then, people will be able to engage in "adult activities".

Claiming that the "real" market is to check messages, is silly and reductive.

 

[Kyrie Deka]

15 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

There's an interesting idea - Thunes could be "cheaper" to operate than Tilia was. Meaning - LL could SAVE money using Thunes.

Over the years I've understood that being outside the US is troublesome in this respect. I wouldn't be at all surprised if those issues would begin to ease, if/after they take over that role. 

[Qie Niangao]

2 minutes ago, Kyrie Deka said:

Over the years I've understood that being outside the US is troublesome in this respect. I wouldn't be at all surprised if those issues would begin to ease, if/after they take over that role. 

You know, yeah, this change might help me. It's a long convoluted story that bores even me, but around the time the Lab formed this Tilia subsidiary, they could no longer handle payments from my US bank. The only way I could avoid eating double currency exchange fees (to the looney and back to the greenback) was through PayPal. Now that works fine but it's really silly and I'd love to cut them out of the loop in the name of parsimony if nothing else.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

IdiotPhone users would be happy to drop 1.99 Euros for 5 minutes of fun.

It's not that whyPhone Wastrels wont pay $1.99 for 5 mins of "fun", it's that they will get bored and sod off when they discover they have to mess around for an hour or 4 before they get that f mins of "fun".

 

Once they have paid their $1.99, they expect that 5 mins of "fun" to happen right there and then, that's where SL will fail to hold their attention, and why we won't see "a vast untapped new market" of whyPhone users who want instant fun on demand.

 

12 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I believe streaming music works now. So, people can go to clubs and listen to music.

Soon, HUDs will work. Then, people will be able to engage in "adult activities".

The whyPhones wont wait long enough to get that far, hell, most will give up after 15-20 mins in disgust, staring at the hud for the noob island Sux-Ra suburban jogger-mom fail--atars, exclaiming loudly that they want to "PLAY the game" not spend "ages" trying to make an avatar.

And existing SecondLifers will just play on their desktops and laptops, which will for the most part be far superior to the phone app.

 

16 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Claiming that the "real" market is to check messages, is silly and reductive.

And yet, so far on this Forum, the MAJORITY of people saying they are looking forward to the mobile app, say that what you call "silly and reductive" is in fact, what they want it for.

 

[Kyrie Deka]

15 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

If Thunes were to own the exchange RATE,

Thinking... I know what that would remind me of... hmmm...  and giving up that control, well I hope I don't see it but we just don't know what's in the agreement.  Word play in documents - could be anything in it.  That might sway things noticeably different for us if whatever determines the rate goes with Tillia ownership or the agreement. 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

37 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Many companies outsource their billing, collections, etc. So, you don't even realize that your statement is BS.

ETA: Small websites use bolt-on collection software. They don't need to go write their own, as LL did.  My point is, even if "collecting money" is a company's "core business", that doesn't mean they need to write and own the software for doing so.

If outsourcing billing is so beneficial to LL, why did they choose option 2.C, instead of 2.B back when?

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

2. New regulations came in, with more red tape, and LL had a choice.

        a) Carry on as before, and deal with the extra red tape.

        b) Outsource the work to one of the many billing processor companies that serviced web sites, but who were showing a tendency to refuse to deal with anything "adult (like the time Renderotica had its billing stopped because a A rated CGI Art gallery had A rated CGI art on it ).

        c) Hive their own inhouse system of into a subsidiary company called Tilla.

 

Why form a subsidiary instead of just outsourcing. They deliberately decided to NOT take your advice, back then.

Why use an owned subsidiary rather than a 3d party outsource? Because your owned subsidiary basically doesn't charge you big bucks to use their service, as it's profit margin is YOUR profit margin.

Outsourcing to a 3rd party will usually be more expensive than outsourcing to an owned subsidiary.

With a subsidiary, you pay their operating costs.

With a 3rd party you pay their operating costs, AND their profit margin, AND run the risk they will scr*w you over in any number of ways.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Kyrie Deka said:

15 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

If Thunes were to own the exchange RATE,

Thinking... I know what that would remind me of... hmmm...  and giving up that control, well I hope I don't see it but we just don't know what's in the agreement.  Word play in documents - could be anything in it.  That might sway things noticeably different for us if whatever determines the rate goes with Tillia ownership or the agreement. 

I'm sure it won't, I was just making a poor comparison of "market rates" vs. "government-determined rates". LL owns the "market" and sets their own "market rate" vs. tying the L$ to something like the USD. I only mentioned Thunes in that context since they are taking the role previously fulfilled by Tilia (where LL owned Tilia, so technically LL set the rate not Tilia).

 

[Love Zhaoying]

* watches Zal explode since she cannot stand being disagreed with *

 

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Hydra Acer said:

My question is: If you find Linden Lab so bad as a company, if you think that everything in Second Life works so badly, if you are so angry with everything new that is being done during these years: Why are you not running away from Second Life to another platform?

57 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

This does get asked, but should get asked more often.

Imagine you ride the bus to work every day.

The bus company has a monopoly on the route.

The bus is always dirty, do you complain?

The bus is la always late, do you complain?

Today the driver is drunk, and has forgotten his glasses! Do you complain, and ask that he stop the bus before he crashes it and kills all the passengers?

 

Or do you just sit there as the dirty, late bus swerves all over the damn road, singing the praises of the people who DIDN'T DO THEIR JOBS PROPERLY?

 

57 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

This does get asked, but should get asked more often.

Only by people who LIKE riding on dirty, late buses driven by almost-blind drunks while singing the praises of people who don't deserve any..

 

 

Edited April 25 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Katherine Heartsong]

5 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

and most will possibly blindly accept the app access to photo's, messages, cam, mic, and not as least ; contacts

On iOS the app will need to be clearly designed to explicitly ask the user for permissions to do that or it won't get past the review stage at Apple. Plus it will say exactly what type of access/data it gathers in the description on the App Store.

That list of accesses is the first thing I check before downloading an app. If it gathers anything near personal (and you probably wouldn't be surprised at how much devs want access to for the simplest of apps—i.e., a shopping list app) I don't download it an find an alternative. Then again, I'm older and value as much of my privacy as I can, and never use most apps, websites, and services that everyone else seems to use without much thought.

Anyone who agrees to those sort of accesses for what would be a simple SL messenger app is being foolish (and becomes the product that is being sold themselves).

Edited April 25 by Katherine Heartsong

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Only by people who LIKE riding on dirty, late buses driven by almost-blind drunks while singing the praises of people who don't deserve any..

Also by those who don't actually ride the bus and just praise it for the service they themselves don't use.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

5 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

and most will possibly blindly accept the app access to photo's, messages, cam, mic, and not as least ; contacts

On iOS the app will need to be clearly designed to explicitly ask the user for permissions to do that or it won't get past the review stage at Apple. Plus it will say exactly what type of access/data it gathers in the description on the App Store.

I don't recall the app asking for access to anything at all.

The app may work with your microphone NOW.  (Or soon, if voice is not ready yet.)

Otherwise, there's really no reason for it to access your contacts, camera, photos etc.  You don't use your camera in Second Life...AFAIK. And for photos, not sure why you'd upload photos unless they were "screen shots" anyway.

Who knows, maybe it asked and I forgot. Maybe the non-alpha version will ask and we'll see.

 

 

[Kyrie Deka]

19 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

but around the time the Lab formed this Tilia subsidiary, they could no longer handle payments from my US bank.

Amazing. Disappointing! I'd have never expected that. Nothing should be that hard. I know in many things though it seems digital communications are either mired in system-mud and two computers don't talk to each other (still!), or they are soooo mired in s security-mud where unfortunately it keeps the real owner away from their money more so than it seems to keep away the crooks!  

Nothing should be that burdensome to any customer wanting to hand over funds to an entertainment source.  If that article about Thunes has any truth to it beyond rah-rah press release, its possible the cleaning up of those kinds of connections is right up their alley of expertise!

[Arielle Popstar]

46 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I believe streaming music works now. So, people can go to clubs and listen to music.

Soon, HUDs will work. Then, people will be able to engage in "adult activities".

Claiming that the "real" market is to check messages, is silly and reductive.

 

My Lumiya viewer parcel stream option STILL works, so do my HUDS. What is the matter with the mobile creators they are having so much trouble bringing in to theirs what has already been done? Not like they are reinventing the wheel.

[Love Zhaoying]

So, assuming the deal goes through - what would you WANT to see "different" with Thune vs. Tilia?

I've seen people glad that processing times should go down.

I've seen people hopeful that their bank or payment method will be supported.  (Of course, this should be "more true" for people outside the US.)

[Kyrie Deka]

Its all conjecture of course,

but I'm kind of encouraged by the Feedback thing documenting stuff,

Last evening I actually received an email with links one-click (and if signed in already in the browser) I could comment or vote like 10 seconds or less!).  Wow.  Not what I have grown used to.  Encouraged, that is all, nothing more... yet.  Communication avenues new? That work? That aren't so buried and mired in blocks between here and "comment" that I run out of time?  This, at least in this moment, looks different - and maybe even promising.

So as related to Tillia/Thunes, perhaps this movement of assets is part of a plan to overall better the place, realigning workgroups/experts to work on stuff that needs work inworld, and less time/expert resources committed to Tillia (which is less needy per se).

Blind, I am dreaming, conjecture. But encouraging.  Time will tell.  And you can bet in 10 years many of us will be here looking back, to see what the changes of early 2024 actually produced.