Thunes to acquire payments platform Tilia LLC

[Arielle Popstar]

4 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Getting money out easier isn't going to entice creators to Opensim.  There is still the "godmode" issue. Kitely does a very good job WITHIN Kitely but even on that Marketplace if you choose to export there is a fair chance that your items will be passes around (much like full perm in SL).  I was on a couple of grids that had ways to process credit from within the grid and they worked fine. Kitely transfers out profits automatically to Paypal each week if you have had enough sales. 

I think there is too much worry over the godmode to be honest. What they should be more concerned with is the apparent Opensim bug that loses the creator name when content is transferred from one grid to another or even when backed up and then imported elsewhere. That is a pita because when one really want to now who made a certain thing, the bug causes the Creator Field to be blank or always "loading". I have to wonder how many creators thought their content had been godded when in actual fact their name came off the creator field due to the bug. Only creators putting some pressure on the Devs is going to get that fixed.

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For a time in 2013 and 2014 Opensim was really "hot" and there was a lot going on and sales were good. But I still don't see that exodus again unless something really major happens.   There needs to be more shoppers to entice creators and more good creators to entice shoppers LOL.

I think the shoppers will appear when the same methods they use in SL to entice clients are used over there. Never see any Kitely sales or promotions of their items. Since one is not allowed to sell items for less then a $1, not that many even bother to look through their marketplace because the minimum price there starts at regular price here.

In 2013 and 2014 too many creators came over there thinking they could make a killing in a market where there was very little commercial content. Didn't pan out like that because most of the residents were well aware of how much a thing should cost in SL and so resented Creators coming over and charging the outrageous prices they tried for on old content.

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In the best of all possible worlds if there WAS an issue in SL a bunch of good creators could move over to Kitely where there is almost (or no) overhead and we could have a very similar grid to play on.  But I can't see that happening because getting enough creators over there to attract folks that want to have vast low cost regions is really difficult. 

Even 10% of the SL creators would be more then sufficient but then there is a rising tide of home grown content starting to appear so that maybe by the time it comes to pass for SL creative types to make the switch, it would be too late as there will already be enough low cost or free content to be had.

A working economy where there is easy access to funds to buy and sell makes it quite a bit easier and efficient to make micro payments so that people would be happy to take advantage of it. I'm surprised in some ways that Tilia didn't actually approach some of the larger grids to offer it because if they had of had a bigger client portfolio, they could have sold for more.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

10 hours ago, Istelathis said:

Doesn't SL make a few hundred million a year?  That is what I was informed of in another thread, if what I had read was true then SL is still very much a cash cow

It has a TUNOVER of over $500,000,000, apparently, but that is NOT the same as "makes", that's before they pay employee wages for LL and Tilla, the bill from AWS for the servers, the bill from Akami for the CDN, the rent/mortgage on the HQ, the repayments on the leveraged buyout loan, and of course, the T. A. X. ( spelt out rather than said because Muricans are severely allergic to the word ) paid to the IRS.

 

That's why you'll hear "turn over of 500 mil" AND on other sites "makes [whatever] mil".

 

[Eirynne Sieyes]

Forgive me in advance if this has already been posted since I stopped reading this very long thread at page 10.

Scroll down to find our Fearless Leaders at the helm, including Patch.  https://lindenlab.com/about

Notice that Tilia management is now completely missing from management's duties, suggesting acquisition rather than partnership. By the way, who managed Tilia last week? My recollection is that management was rather Tilia heavy.

I can't help thinking that the loss of and cursory reassignment of two key positions, engineering and marketing, does not bode well. With any luck, those critical rolls are filled by people whose caliber matches that of those they replace.

When those two roles are filled, I will feel more confident regarding SL's future, 

[Jaylinbridges]

33 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Notice that Tilia management is now completely missing from management's duties, suggesting acquisition rather than partnership. By the way, who managed Tilia last week? My recollection is that management was rather Tilia heavy.

There has been no change in that management list since Jan 6, 2024.  Three Tilia managers, two LL managers, Brad and the General Counsel who works with both LL and Tilia is the present listing.

The last change was on Dec 25, 2023, when two LL managers vanished.  

https://web.archive.org/web/20231225132519/https://lindenlab.com/about

 

Edited April 26 by Jaylinbridges

[belindacarson]

I'm looking forward to the GDPR stuff.

 

Need a users consent to merge our information. 

[Alwin Alcott]

Just now, belindacarson said:

Need a users consent to merge our information. 

they didn't with sale of Sansar ... 

[belindacarson]

16 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

they didn't with sale of Sansar ... 

I wasn't registered for sansar side.

 

I am with tilia for buying/selling l$, so I'll be watching this one.

[sirhc DeSantis]

1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:

they didn't with sale of Sansar ... 

I did contact them after the change to ask for my info to be removed and got a nice, if a bit sad, email back confirming it. I wasn't actually that bothered so it was more out of curiosity. Don't recall any 'consent' as such but there was something about it that I followed.

[JacksonBollock]

In my previous posts I articulated a view of the strategic context of the Thunes acquisition.

While these analyses present a fair view of our current state, I think it’d also be valuable to start a community conversation around the potential opportunities for Second Life over the next few years.

My belief is that, while any financial windfall provides opportunities for technology and platform innovation, more importantly this move also provides a real opportunity for Second Life to engage with a new global audience, and be seen as a new model for global financial inclusion.

The idea that Second Life provides a model for financial inclusion isn’t new, at its core it has always been a platform which uniquely supports creativity, innovation, and entrepreneurial activity.

By leveraging Thunes' global network however, Second Life now realistically has the opportunity to expand its user base in new geographic areas that were previously limited by payment processing infrastructure and cultural inclusion constraints.

Specifically, by enabling easier, more reliable payment methods for users in unbanked and underbanked regions, Second Life can become a more accessible platform for users worldwide to engage in creative and economic activity.

Thus contributing to the global movement for financial inclusion.

In my view this expansion not only grows Second Life’s market but also enhances the diversity and richness of the virtual world’s economy.

Edited April 26 by JacksonBollock

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, JacksonBollock said:

My belief is that, while any financial windfall provides opportunities for technology and platform innovation

My belief is they are more likely to spend the cash on paying off some of the leveraged buyout loan, and share holder dividends.

An SL lumbered with buyout debt is harder to re-sell than one that's clear of debt, and would fetch a better price.

 

1 hour ago, JacksonBollock said:

more importantly this move also provides a real opportunity for Second Life to engage with a new global audience, and be seen as a new model for global financial inclusion.

Here we go again with the "vast untapped new market" that doesn't actually exist nonsense again.

 

1 hour ago, JacksonBollock said:

By leveraging Thunes' global network however, Second Life now realistically has the opportunity to expand its user base in new geographic areas that were previously limited by payment processing infrastructure

What a load of Bollocks.

Thune's is a B2B network, they specialise in connecting fake money crypto-cap not-banks in Tax-Avoidance Havens to real banks in the civilised world. The don't do "customer facing" or "payment processing".

1 hour ago, JacksonBollock said:

Specifically, by enabling easier, more reliable payment methods for users in unbanked and underbanked regions

The Third World Countries, where people earn a $ a day, paid in cash you mean..

Heads up, people who earn a $ a day not only have limited access to credit cards, and paypal, but also have limited access to PC's capable of RUNNING SL at all. 

Awful Mac whyLaps and whyPads are not common accessories in economically deprived "unbanked" areas.

 

1 hour ago, JacksonBollock said:

In my view this expansion not only grows Second Life’s market

"A VAST untapped new market of people who can't PLAY SecondLife because they don't own and can't afford to buy the hardware!" is no new market at all.

 

[JacksonBollock]

6 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

My belief is they are more likely to spend the cash on paying off some of the leveraged buyout loan, and share holder dividends.

...

Hi Zalificent,

Thanks for sharing your concerns, and I appreciate your candid perspective. I understand the skepticism regarding the financial management post-acquisition and the challenges of reaching new markets, especially in underbanked regions.

To address your points:
First, while the possibility of using funds to manage buyout debt exists, strategic investments in technology can also spur long-term growth, as seen in other tech sectors. Expanding our user base isn't just about finding 'untapped markets'; it's about making our platform more accessible and inclusive, which aligns with broader trends in technology adoption globally.

Regarding Thunes, it's important to clarify that their network supports a variety of transaction services that could facilitate easier access to platforms like Second Life even in regions where traditional banking infrastructure is scarce.

Finally, the point about hardware limitations is well-taken. However, global trends in cheaper and more accessible technology are rapidly changing this this landscape. I appreciate the hardware requirements for SL can be prohibitive, but perhaps with the advent of the mobile platform we might see the barriers to participation reduced.

As an example, one business I'm involved with competed in the Global Learning XPRIZE a few years ago. I appreciate there are some criticisms of the XPRIZE organisation, however several entrants had great success and did facilitate marked improvements in remote communities by a combination of software and inexpensive hardware innovations.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 minutes ago, JacksonBollock said:

First, while the possibility of using funds to manage buyout debt exists, strategic investments in technology can also spur long-term growth

The Takeover Triumvirate is headed by a guy who specialises in "Takeover, repaint, slice up and sell".

The company got rid of it's high profile Tech and Marketing VP's.

The "tech improvements" we've seen have all been a bit "one guy working half a day a week on the project" with the other 4.5 days spent on general emergency hotfix patching everything else. NO "strategic investments in technology" at all.

 

All of this suggests that the goal is to make SL more "sellable" so it can be offloaded as well, like Tilla, and Sansar, so the takeover triumvirate can move on to new targets.

 

9 minutes ago, JacksonBollock said:

Finally, the point about hardware limitations is well-taken. However, global trends in cheaper and more accessible technology are rapidly changing this this landscape. I appreciate the hardware requirements for SL can be prohibitive, but perhaps with the advent of the mobile platform we might see the barriers to participation reduced.

Absolutely!

Obviously those Masai Warriors living in traditional villages in Kenya, who don't have electricity, cell phone towers, or optical glass internet cables, will soon all be logging in on their brand new Awful Mac whyPhones to sign over 3 months wages for a Premium subscription, and claim one of the "Little Boxes made of Ticky-Tacky that all look just the same" in the Bellicosian Privacy-Haters Zone.

 

How could ANYONE doubt the "inclusive vision" of people who assume everyone has access to fancy modern tech, with a cell phone tower behind every elephant, and dozens of miles of glass cable running across the veldt to a village of 40 people.

 

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, JacksonBollock said:

I think it’d also be valuable to start a community conversation around the potential opportunities for Second Life over the next few years

since when is SL community owned or democratic governmented?

it's not been that ever, we pay, we watch, see, hear and grind teeth or sheer ...but that's all

[belindacarson]

2 hours ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

I did contact them after the change to ask for my info to be removed and got a nice, if a bit sad, email back confirming it. I wasn't actually that bothered so it was more out of curiosity. Don't recall any 'consent' as such but there was something about it that I followed.

I'll be doing this once we know more info about the buyout.   I've never even heard of thune until this thread.

 

Sorry but unless I've consented to my data,  there's a lovely GDPR instruction going in to delete my data.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

For anyone that can connect the dots, its obvious that LL plans to bleed Second Life dry, then sell off whatever is left to someone with more money than sence.

[Love Zhaoying]

49 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

A VAST

"Avast, ye scurvy swab!" - Fake pirate

Edited April 26 by Love Zhaoying

[Love Zhaoying]

13 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

it's not been that ever, we pay, we watch, see, hear and grind teeth or sheer ...but that's all

Even now, there is much "weeping and gnashing of teeth" - and nothing has actually changed. 

[JacksonBollock]

41 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

The Takeover Triumvirate is headed by a guy who specialises in "Takeover, repaint, slice up and sell".

 

Thanks Zalificent for your pointed critique and for highlighting the significant disparities in technological access across different regions.

I completely agree that the picture I painted might seem overly optimistic or disconnected from the reality faced by many, particularly in less developed regions.

In response to these valid concerns, I want to emphasize that the goal is not to overlook these realities but to actively work towards bridging these gaps.

For instance, my reference to the work with Thunes is part of a broader vision to leverage existing infrastructures, no matter how minimal, to extend digital reach and hence opportunity.

Thunes, by facilitating transactions in places with limited traditional banking, represents just one of the ways it might adapt to the diverse capabilities of different regions.

Moreover, I mentioned the mobile platform development in recognition of the trend towards cheaper and more accessible technology. While this does not solve all problems immediately, it is a step towards reducing hardware limitations that can exclude potential users.

While I understand a cynicism in the face of what might appear technological determinism or even what might be called neo-colonialism, it’s also wise to guard against a tendency to stereotyping any one group of people in order to make a point.

In terms of the Maasai, to explore your example, the technological realities, as for many indigenous and rural communities, are complex and vary significantly between different groups and locations.

However generally speaking connectivity and access to technology is increasing and adoption is accelerating within the Maasai. In fact, they have themselves often been cited as model by which a people may maintain their cultural identity while also adapting to modern technologies where they see benefit.

As an example, while they continue their traditional practices such as pastoralism and rites of passage, they also integrate technologies that can help manage their businesses and communicate with the wider world.

A mobile banking service called M-Pesa for instance have become a vital part of economic transactions for the Maasai, allowing them to send and receive money without needing access to a traditional bank. This service is particularly valuable for managing finances related to livestock sales and other forms of trade.
 

Edited April 26 by JacksonBollock

[Innula Zenovka]

40 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

For anyone that can connect the dots, its obvious that LL plans to bleed Second Life dry, then sell off whatever is left to someone with more money than sence.

Or to divest themselves of a specialist and highly regulated product that, while potentially lucrative, is expensive and arduous to maintain, so they can concentrate on their core business?

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Or to divest themselves of a specialist and highly regulated product that, while potentially lucrative, is expensive and arduous to maintain, so they can concentrate on their core business?

I tried to say something similar, Zal's response was precious. Thank goodness at least one other person has common sense!

[Eirynne Sieyes]

5 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

There has been no change in that management list since Jan 6, 2024.  Three Tilia managers, two LL managers, Brad and the General Counsel who works with both LL and Tilia is the present listing.

The last change was on Dec 25, 2023, when two LL managers vanished.  

https://web.archive.org/web/20231225132519/https://lindenlab.com/about

 

Not true. As late as last week, the LL management page showed some of these people responsible for SL and Tilia. if not just Tilia alone. The point is Tilia was entirely removed from job positions. (https://lindenlab.com/about)

[Arielle Popstar]

13 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Or to divest themselves of a specialist and highly regulated product that, while potentially lucrative, is expensive and arduous to maintain, so they can concentrate on their core business?

That sounds like Second Life. SL in some ways reminds me of my old car I use for certain weekly trips. It is old with high mileage and rusting out but I keep up very basic maintenance, licensing and insurance to keep it on the road but do nothing that will extend its life otherwise. Basically driving it till it drops. It makes me money but not enough to make it worth any real investment in it.

[Love Zhaoying]

17 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Not true. As late as last week, the LL management page showed some of these people responsible for SL and Tilia. if not just Tilia alone. The point is Tilia was entirely removed from job positions. (https://lindenlab.com/about)

A little odd to have so much visibility and transparency (lulz, what there is of it) recently, but NOT share something as basic as, "hey we had some management changes".  I suppose, being still a "privately held company", it's literally "Nunya".

 

[Porky Gorky]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

For anyone that can connect the dots, its obvious that LL plans to bleed Second Life dry, then sell off whatever is left to someone with more money than sence.

Based on what I've learned of the owners, they are going to want to sell I think. But there is little value in a dry cow and I think they will attempt to sell the platform sooner rather than later, before it becomes an udder failure.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

For anyone that can connect the dots, its obvious that LL plans to bleed Second Life dry, then sell off whatever is left to someone with more money than sence.

Well then, if you are correct, "selling it off" means it should still "exist" after the sale, right?

That's good news!